SAC is dead, but old pictures pop up!

dmccormack

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Display name:
Dan Mc
I was doing research for a Homeland Security class I'm taking when I came across this picture:

W80handle.jpg


I'm behind Airman Grimord on the right (I'm holding the checklist -- I was crew chief on this op). SSG Timmerman was QA and observing (Facing camera).

I have no idea who is underneath.

This was receipt of the first W80 nuclear warhead at Griffiss AFB in 1982 for loading on the Air Launched Cruise Missle.

I'm also in this pic (my back is!)

W80loading.jpg


In the distance underneath the ALCM there is a SRAM (Short Range Attack Missle) that also was nuclear armed.

Good times!

By the way -- I have no pictures from those days -- cameras weren't exactly welcome in a Nuclear Weapons Storage Area! My guess is these were declassified by the Air Force recently.

What's missing is the image of the huge mushroom cloud mural I painted on the back wall of this maintenance bay....
 
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cool - back in the day I used to work with some of the components that went inside the warheads, but I think that's the first time I saw the completed package.
 
Matthew said:
cool - back in the day I used to work with some of the components that went inside the warheads, but I think that's the first time I saw the completed package.
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The W80 warheads came from Sandia Labs.

Neutron generators for the B61 came from GE -- they were hot when we unpacked them -- months after they were packed.

We weren't issued or even permitted to wear dosimeters of have any radioactivity detection or warning.
 
I remember the neutron generators - I had to wear a dosimeter for a while. It's been a long, long time, but I think the problem I had with them was that the sensitivity of the dosimeter was actually less than the allowable daily dose. (In other words, you could get a full day's dose and not know it. Maybe I did the math wrong, but I don't think so.)

I got to visit Sandia a couple times - I remember walking down a hallway, past a laser lab, and noticed a sign that said "Warning - Do NOT look at laser with remaining eye!"
 
Matthew said:
I remember the neutron generators - I had to wear a dosimeter for a while. It's been a long, long time, but I think the problem I had with them was that the sensitivity of the dosimeter was actually greater than the allowable daily dose.

I got to visit Sandia a couple times - I remember walking down a hallway, past a laser lab, and noticed a sign that said "Warning - Do NOT look at laser with remaining eye!"
Click to expand...

Yeah... I remember asking for some sort of protective or at least detector gear. I was quickly informed that I had absolutely no reason to worry -- everything is perfectly safe.

Unh hunh.
 
dmccormack said:
Yeah... I remember asking for some sort of protective or at least detector gear. I was quickly informed that I had absolutely no reason to worry -- everything is perfectly safe.

Unh hunh.
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I remember that my protective 'gear' was to make sure I kept one of the old guys between me and the neutron source.
 
Matthew said:
I remember that my protective 'gear' was to make sure I kept one of the old guys between me and the neutron source.
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I spent 10-12 hours a day climbing on B28s, B61s, and SRAMS mounted on racks and rotary launchers.

There was no avoiding very close contact.

But I think all the zinc chromate we sprayed while wearing no masks probably was a bigger threat.

As an aside -- I worked on the WTC "pile" September 14-15th. Few of us wore pro-masks. I figured I was either immune after 4 years of nukes are already so far gone it didn't matter.

My guess is sometime 40-50 years from now we'll hear all about "survivors of the nuclear era" and expend all sorts of money treating them.

I'll likely be long gone by then!
 
Both my kids ended up with the right number of fingers and toes.

The dose is the poison - time and distance. I tried to stay as far away as I could (inverse square of the distance) and for as short a time as possible. I didn't have to be around the stuff for very long at a time, either.

You're right, though, the stuff I've breathed over the years in the manufacturing business has probably done more damage.
 
They let ya take pictures of the weapons back then? I worked in the weapons cage at the nuke loading school at Whidbey Island. Cameras were off limits even around the hangar. The interesting part is, all we had were dummy weapons. No live material and even the triggering devices were disabled.
 
KennyFlys said:
They let ya take pictures of the weapons back then? I worked in the weapons cage at the nuke loading school at Whidbey Island. Cameras were off limits even around the hangar. The interesting part is, all we had were dummy weapons. No live material and even the triggering devices were disabled.
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No -- these pictures were official documenting the receipt of the first W80 warhead and loading into the ALCM.

Are you kidding? Cameras? Can you say Court Martial offense?

(Two fellow airmen in the Bomb shop were tried and convicted of intentionally damaging a nuclear weapon. Last I knew they were spending life in Leavenworth. There was no messing around with nukes in the 80s in SAC!)
 
KennyFlys said:
They let ya take pictures of the weapons back then? I worked in the weapons cage at the nuke loading school at Whidbey Island. Cameras were off limits even around the hangar. The interesting part is, all we had were dummy weapons. No live material and even the triggering devices were disabled.
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Why would you have live triggering devices on dummy weapons?
 
smigaldi said:
Why would you have triggering devices on dummy weapons?
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Don't know about Kenny's situation, but we had full-scale mockups (training ordnance).

They were handled with the same level of security as live ordnance. When the Soviet satellites flew overhead we had to make sure they were under cover in igloos or in the bay with all the real stuff.

But if all we had was a trainer in the bay, two man policy did not apply.

I don't know what "triggering mechanism" kenny's referring to, as all nukes have several "triggers."

Perhaps you're confusing the PAL link cable linked to the ejector rack, which was mounted to the clip (bomb rack) which was mated to the aircraft.
 
I was never in the service, which is probably a hugely good thing given my own authority issues. I disagree with a lot of the more politically conservative folks here, but I do remember that it was your sacrifices (well, schleping nukes might not be such a sacrifice) that allow me to do so, and I do thank you.
 
steingar said:
I was never in the service, which is probably a hugely good thing given my own authority issues. I disagree with a lot of the more politically conservative folks here, but I do remember that it was your sacrifices (well, schleping nukes might not be such a sacrifice) that allow me to do so, and I do thank you.
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I was Nuclear Weapons maintenance technician and team chief for 4 years on active duty. The other folks (461xo) would "schlep" them for us (unless they were too busy).

When I got out, said "never again," and then joined the Air National Guard a year later.

I worked as a Command Post Control for the 193rd Special Operations Group for 6 years.

I transferred to the US Army National Guard, attended OCS, prepped for DS1, and was never shipped (war was over too quick). I was recalled to active duty Army Armor Center to serve in the Mounted Warfighting Battlespace Lab .

I later served as a Tank Platoon Leader, Scout Platoon leader, OCE Senior Training Officer, and Infantry Company Commander before retiring in June, 2001.

Thanks for the sentiments, but it was a whole lot more than "schlepping," and anyway, I didn't get to choose where I serve once I signed the paper that said "US Air Force."
 
I did not mean to presume, but personally had I been the one doing it I would have been proud to boast about my personal hands-on experiences handling nuclear weapons (talk about rad!) either during, if legal, or definitely after. I really was referring to schleping nukes in the most awestruck spirit. But really it was the signature on the line for which I give my gratitude.

Seriously, in my generation handling nuclear warheads is a huge bragging point. Chicks dig it.
 
steingar said:
I did not mean to presume, but personally had I been the one doing it I would have been proud to boast about my personal hands-on experiences handling nuclear weapons (talk about rad!) either during, if legal, or definitely after. I really was referring to schleping nukes in the most awestruck spirit. But really it was the signature on the line for which I give my gratitude.

Seriously, in my generation handling nuclear warheads is a huge bragging point. Chicks dig it.
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IF ONLY that were true!!!!
:smilewinkgrin:

They would have really enjoyed watching us push each other around the maintenance bay while astride B-28s and shouting "Yeeee-HAW!" just like Slim Pickens....

Slim-pickens_riding-the-bomb_enh-lores.jpg


Well, my wife still digs me -- and it's been 28 years. But I don't think nukes had much to do with it!

Thanks for the sentiments but honestly, I did far less than many others who served and continue to serve.
 
smigaldi said:
Why would you have live triggering devices on dummy weapons?
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Meaning, they couldn't be configured for use even if so desired. Everything we had was of no more value than the plastic boxes on furniture to simulate appliances.

My job as a lowly airman was simply maintaining the cage and supply along with tear down after loading teams were trained. My own loading experience didn't happen until I moved on to another squadron and the BDUs weren't the same. For some reason, they don't keep BDUs on the carrier. The nukes were real and so were the Marines to take out anyone who came too close during loading.
 
KennyFlys said:
Meaning, they couldn't be configured for use even if so desired. Everything we had was of no more value than the plastic boxes on furniture to simulate appliances.
Click to expand...
thanks

KennyFlys said:
My job as a lowly airman was simply maintaining the cage and supply along with tear down after loading teams were trained. My own loading experience didn't happen until I moved on to another squadron and the BDUs weren't the same. For some reason, they don't keep BDUs on the carrier. The nukes were real and so were the Marines to take out anyone who came too close during loading.
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Vocabulary issue here. BDU to me is Battle Dress Uniform or cami fatigues. What do you mean by BDU for us non-bomb loader types?
 
Çaption this picture:

"Lets say we take out back an trow it into a fire and ....?"

In fact I think I'll submit it to to Fark for a photoshop contest!

Dan, do you have a hi-res copy somewhere?
 
mikea said:
Çaption this picture:

"Lets say we take out back an trow it into a fire and ....?"

In fact I think I'll submit it to to Fark for a photoshop contest!
Click to expand...

The explosives used in that particular warhead had a very high heat tolerance. If a bomb iwere in a fire, the main concern is detonation of the explosive charges in the chute.

It would take quite the conflagration to ignite the charges around the pit.

I'll shut up now -- temperatures, weights, design, and the like are still classified.
 
dmccormack said:
I was doing research for a Homeland Security class I'm taking when I came across this picture:

W80handle.jpg


I'm behind Airman Grimord on the right (I'm holding the checklist -- I was crew chief on this op). SSG Timmerman was QA and observing (Facing camera).

I have no idea who is underneath.

This was receipt of the first W80 nuclear warhead at Griffiss AFB in 1982 for loading on the Air Launched Cruise Missle.

I'm also in this pic (my back is!)

W80loading.jpg


In the distance underneath the ALCM there is a SRAM (Short Range Attack Missle) that also was nuclear armed.

Good times!

By the way -- I have no pictures from those days -- cameras weren't exactly welcome in a Nuclear Weapons Storage Area! My guess is these were declassified by the Air Force recently.

What's missing is the image of the huge mushroom cloud mural I painted on the back wall of this maintenance bay....
Click to expand...


Darn. Just when I was going to ask how much damage a little warhead the size of a 5 gallon bucket could do too .:rolleyes::rolleyes::yikes:
 
Matthew said:
I don't really remember - but they do pack a punch. The newer designs are quite a bit more efficient than the early (1940's) designs.
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Fat Boy and Little Man were fission devices ("atomic bombs")

All current US warheads are fusion devices ("nuclear weapons")

Fusion reaction releases quite a bit more energy.
 
dmccormack said:
Fat Boy and Little Man were fission devices ("atomic bombs")

All current US warheads are fusion devices ("nuclear weapons")

Fusion reaction releases quite a bit more energy.
Click to expand...

Both types are nuclear weapons. The former do indeed derive their destructive power from nuclear fission. The latter from fusion, as you have said, using a fission device as a primer to induce the fusion reaction.
 
steingar said:
Both types are nuclear weapons. The former do indeed derive their destructive power from nuclear fission. The latter from fusion, as you have said, using a fission device as a primer to induce the fusion reaction.
Click to expand...

Or better yet, to really make a whopper use 3 stages, fission, fusion, fission...


Trapper John
 
steingar said:
Both types are nuclear weapons. The former do indeed derive their destructive power from nuclear fission. The latter from fusion, as you have said, using a fission device as a primer to induce the fusion reaction.
Click to expand...

Yeah - the first nuclear reaction is simply the primer for the main.
 
steingar said:
Both types are nuclear weapons. The former do indeed derive their destructive power from nuclear fission. The latter from fusion, as you have said, using a fission device as a primer to induce the fusion reaction.
Click to expand...

Actually, as far as the Air Force was concerned, only fusion weapons were called "Nuclear."

Pre-fusion were described as "Atomic."

Whereas everything is truly "atomic."

But it was AF shorthand lingo.

And yes -- the energy from fission is required for fusion reaction.
 
dmccormack said:
Fat Boy and Little Man were fission devices ("atomic bombs")

All current US warheads are fusion devices ("nuclear weapons")

Fusion reaction releases quite a bit more energy.
Click to expand...

Should say:
Fat Boy and Little Man were fission devices ("atomic bombs") ("nuclear weapons")

All current US warheads are fusion devices ("hydrogen bombs") ("thermo-nuclear weapons")
 
SteveW said:
Should say:
Fat Boy and Little Man were fission devices ("atomic bombs") ("nuclear weapons")

All current US warheads are fusion devices ("hydrogen bombs") ("thermo-nuclear weapons")
Click to expand...

Technicaly correct.

But I never once in four years heard anyone refer to them as "thermo-nuclear."

Any newbie that referred to "atomic bombs" was quickly disabused of his stupidity.

Such is jargon.
 
dmccormack said:
Technicaly correct.

But I never once in four years heard anyone refer to them as "thermo-nuclear."

Any newbie that referred to "atomic bombs" was quickly disabused of his stupidity.

Such is jargon.
Click to expand...

Once upon a time everyone thought whales were fish. Didn't make it so.
 
what I want to know is, what did those two guys who ended up in Leavenworth actually DO to a nuclear weapon?
 
etsisk said:
what I want to know is, what did those two guys who ended up in Leavenworth actually DO to a nuclear weapon?
Click to expand...

I keep getting that image of Bugs Bunny working in the weapons factory.

He'd cringe, then hit an artillery shell with a hammer. If it didn't go off, he'd write "DUD" on the side.
 
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