Runup every time?

When do you perform a full pre-takeoff runup?

  • First takeoff of the new fiscal year

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • First takeoff of the day

    Votes: 13 10.7%

  • Before every takeoff

    Votes: 46 38.0%

  • Only during a checkride

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • After each engine startup

    Votes: 60 49.6%
  • Total voters
    121
dmccormack

dmccormack

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Dan Mc
A recent discussion came up around the hangar a few nights ago -- Do you perform a runup before every takeoff, or only on the first takeoff, if you're not stopped for long?
 
dmccormack said:
A recent discussion came up around the hangar a few nights ago -- Do you perform a runup before every takeoff, or only on the first takeoff, if you're not stopped for long?
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I was taught that a runup was only necessary on the first flight of the day, and after refueling. The rationale was that nothing was likely to break in between flights in a day that a runup would catch, except for improper or bad fuel.
 
I do one every time I take off if the engine had been shut down. If I am just doing landing and then taxing around back to take off I would not do another run up.
 
A long, slow, low-power descent or long ground idle will cause me to do a run-up even on full stop/taxi-back situations. Burn the carbon & lead out. If I suspect something or something doesn't feel "right", I'll do a full run-up.

It really doesn't take much longer to do a run-up than to do an abbreviated checklist....
 
I agree with this approach, except I've made it a habit - full run up on every departure. I've had 2 occasions (one each - long taxi and long, low-power descent) where I've found a fouled plug. I figure a life time of habit may save me from a one time distraction where I should check and forget to. I also agree that it only takes a few seconds.
Jeff

wsuffa said:
A long, slow, low-power descent or long ground idle will cause me to do a run-up even on full stop/taxi-back situations. Burn the carbon & lead out. If I suspect something or something doesn't feel "right", I'll do a full run-up.

It really doesn't take much longer to do a run-up than to do an abbreviated checklist....
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I'll do a second one after periods of low power settings and possibly too rich such as more taxi-backs than usual or if I see the student not managing mixture well. The need arises from not managing mixture. Too often, I've climbed into a plane and found a rough mag check left for me by the previous pilot.

I make leaning during taxi part of any check list, whether it's written in or not.
 
jmaynard said:
I was taught that a runup was only necessary on the first flight of the day, and after refueling. The rationale was that nothing was likely to break in between flights in a day that a runup would catch, except for improper or bad fuel.
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And what if a mag failed on descent? If you weren't asking for much power you might not notice the roughness. Remember: everything that breaks was working before it broke. The time to find out is NOT at 300 feet agl and 75 knots. It takes 30 seconds. What's your hurry?
 
I do a run-up before every take off if the engine has been shut down (although I was tempted to do "at the beginning of the fiscal year" just for humor). However:

wsuffa said:
A long, slow, low-power descent or long ground idle will cause me to do a run-up even on full stop/taxi-back situations. Burn the carbon & lead out. If I suspect something or something doesn't feel "right", I'll do a full run-up.

It really doesn't take much longer to do a run-up than to do an abbreviated checklist....
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Yep, I agree. The ONE time I have had a plug foul in the Archer was when I had a long descent at full rich doing an ILS with the power all the way back at idle (a strong updraft was trying to keep me in the sky, even with full flaps). However:

KennyFlys said:
I make leaning during taxi part of any check list, whether it's written in or not.
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Me too, and also during descent until shortly before the runway.
 
Please define run-up. I always take the engine up to 1800 and check the mags and the carbheat before every take off if the engine was shut down. You never know when a mag wire might break.

Do I do the whole pre-flight check list. No, only on the first flight of the day as long as the walk around of the airplane after the stop revieals no ramp rash I assume that nothing could have happend to the controls since I last flew it.
 
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Missa said:
Please define run-up. I always take the engine up to 1800 and check the mags and the carbheat before every take off. You never know when a mag wire might break.

Do I do the whole pre-flight check list. No, only on the first flight of the day as long as the walk around of the airplane after the stop revieals no ramp rash I assume that nothing could have happend to the controls since I last flew it.
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I was thinking the same thing although I do not check the mags or carb heat, except to verify it's off between take offs if I'm working the pattern for practice.

I do a full pre-flight after each engine stoppage except for sumping fuel unless fuel has been added.

On long taxi's I lean it, as taught, to prevent fouling and save fuel.
 
Ken Ibold said:
And what if a mag failed on descent? If you weren't asking for much power you might not notice the roughness. Remember: everything that breaks was working before it broke. The time to find out is NOT at 300 feet agl and 75 knots. It takes 30 seconds. What's your hurry?
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Ted DuPuis said:
I do a run-up before every take off if the engine has been shut down ...
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Agreed. Every time after a shutdown. That engine has a bit extra stress during startup and shutdown. If I've walked away from a plane for any period after the preflight, I do another cursory preflight. These actions take too little time and may save a life.

Something else I've noticed when folks get impatient is they slam that throttle in on beginning the takeoff roll. Engines won't spin up quickly. Add the power gradually, over two or three seconds. Otherwise, you'll get a hiccup that may result in lost power either in the takeoff roll or worse, after rotation. It won't react well if you try to introduce more fuel-air mixture than can be taken in by engine's current operating speed.
 
Before every take-off. Mag checks on both engines and exercise the props. First flight of the day, full pre-flight; subsequent flights, walk around. Check the sumps after fueling. It's a machine, it WILL break. Just a question of when. I'd rather find out while I'm still on the ground.
 
KennyFlys said:
Something else I've noticed when folks get impatient is they slam that throttle in on beginning the takeoff roll.
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I never do that ever. Smooth advance keeps me and the engine happy. If you need full power ASAP on take of you should be using a short field technique. Keep the brakes locked and then bring up the power, once at full power then release the brakes.
 
I do a mag/prop check for every takeoff except a touch and go. I do a full preflight on the first flight of the day, or if the airplane has been out of my control. On subsequent starts I do a brief walkaround and check the oil level and prop surfaces. Sump tanks with every full preflight or after the fuel caps are opened.
 
wsuffa said:
Try that with my plane and you'll overboost.
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I've never observed a problem like that on the Archer or the Mooney, wonder why? :D

That said, I always advance the levers slowly. However I've observed a few people who advance them rapidly. I always go "Poor engine..." when I see that.
 
Define fiscal year.

Aviation fiscal year begins the moment after the annual is signed off.:)
My actual fiscal year has no beginning or end at all. There is no fiscality to my year anyway.

:rofl:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've never observed a problem like that on the Archer or the Mooney, wonder why? :D

That said, I always advance the levers slowly. However I've observed a few people who advance them rapidly. I always go "Poor engine..." when I see that.
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We have a few geniuses driving V Tails that like to startup and run at 2300 RPM for a while. They also like to scream into the pattern and push prop full forward so you hear that nice whaaaaaaaaaaa scream.

I'm thinking TBO isn't something these guys worry about....
 
RMCN172RG said:
I was thinking the same thing although I do not check the mags or carb heat, except to verify it's off between take offs if I'm working the pattern for practice.

I do a full pre-flight after each engine stoppage except for sumping fuel unless fuel has been added.

On long taxi's I lean it, as taught, to prevent fouling and save fuel.
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Yep, K I fixed it, no I do not do run-ups if I was working in the pattern and was doing a taxi back. (unless the engine sounds funny).
 
TMetzinger said:
I do a mag/prop check for every takeoff except a touch and go. I do a full preflight on the first flight of the day, or if the airplane has been out of my control. On subsequent starts I do a brief walkaround and check the oil level and prop surfaces. Sump tanks with every full preflight or after the fuel caps are opened.
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Anytime the engine had been stopped on the ground I check the oil and fuel. I can only get a visual on it when I'm on the gound. I sump the tanks anytime fuel has been added (not when I open them to check fuel level)
 
dmccormack said:
We have a few geniuses driving V Tails that like to startup and run at 2300 RPM for a while. They also like to scream into the pattern and push prop full forward so you hear that nice whaaaaaaaaaaa scream.
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Yeah, I have shaken my head at a few club members for doing similar things with the Archer. Starting the thing up and then letting it go straight to about 1500 and stay there. I always pull it back for at least the first bit. Shocking the engine, either heat or cool, is not good.

I'm thinking TBO isn't something these guys worry about....
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Now that I've started flying the Mooney (and have more knobs to play with, as well as more instrumentation), it gives me more to think about with regards to engine management and longevity. Something I'm enjoying. I pay close attention to the CHT, and even on climb-out I attempt to keep it below what I estimate to be 400F (the gauge goes from 200-475), and I modulate the cowl flaps, mixture, and air speed appropriately to keep it there, or at least as closely as possible. In talking to other people who do that, it seems that those engines last the longest with the fewest problems. Meanwhile, there's a Malibu in the FBO here that has 600 hours on its cylinders... all of which were just ripped off to get overhauled due to low compression and high oil consumption.

Sure, these engines are durable, but if you want your engine to actually last a long time, being nice to the cylinders and the oil system are important. Don't shock the engine either with heat or cold. Try to keep things in their appropriate temperature ranges as much as possible. When you start up the engine, let it run at a lower RPM for a bit to get oil through the system and up to pressure, as well as to get that initial heat-up at a slightly slower rate.

You see the same thing with cars too, of course. People just say that the engines and transmissions can take it, then start the things up on a cold day, put them into gear before the engine has even established an idle RPM, and then take off and shift the thing up at 4000 RPMs. I have noticed those same people wonder why their valves start making noise prematurely and other engine issues begin to pop up. For comparison, I expect 170-200,000 miles out of my vehicles, and haven't failed to get it, even though I know I work them hard.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've never observed a problem like that on the Archer or the Mooney, wonder why? :D
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Turbo or non-turbo?

Lycoming built my turbocharged engine, guess we can blame them... :rolleyes:

That said, I always advance the levers slowly. However I've observed a few people who advance them rapidly. I always go "Poor engine..." when I see that.
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You missed one. "What's a run-up?"

It seems appropriate to do a run-up each time you start the engine although, as I recall, that wasn't what I was taught.

Note to self... modify your teachings.
 
On a long cross-country flight recently, I landed at Windham, CT. The plan was to taxi over to the terminal, take a picture of the "Windham" sign out the windshield as proof I'd been there, taxi back and take off for North Central State in RI. It's a small airport, so it wasn't a great long taxi and I was pretty prompt about it.

The plane had been running fine, with no indications of any trouble whatsoever (Cessna 172 M). When I got to the hold short line, I decided to do a run-up, just to be careful.

When I checked the left mag, the engine came closer to quitting than I'd ever seen on a mag check. The right one was fine but the left was crazy. I went through the procedure and cleared it and all was fine. But I didn't need any more convincing to make run-ups a part of every pre-takeoff checkist.
 
Never, at least in the sense that most people think of a 'run-up'. I've never had a fouled plug in my plane because I lean on the ground and just all the time. My usual routine is to quickly switch to mag L/R to check that they're both working and to check the prop. The other runup stuff doesn't really tell me anything.

LOP mag check every flight tells me if the ignition system is working well. Leave it leaned during descent and landing and then just taxi to parking. At 700 RPM during taxi, I don't need the breaks, and well-leaned, the engine loves shutting down from 6-700 RPM much more than 1000.

-Felix
 
I check mags and carb heat at idle on "subsequent" takeoffs...anything abnormal there will result in a more thorough runup.

dmccormack said:
We have a few geniuses driving V Tails that like to startup and run at 2300 RPM for a while.
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Ah, but there's a logic behind that..."You don't make abrupt power changes on these big engines." At least, that's what I've been told by a couple of our local flight school instructors when they started a Saratoga that way.

Some people just need a good smack upside the head...:rolleyes:

Fly safe!

David
 
dmccormack said:
We have a few geniuses driving V Tails that like to startup and run at 2300 RPM for a while. They also like to scream into the pattern and push prop full forward so you hear that nice whaaaaaaaaaaa scream.

I'm thinking TBO isn't something these guys worry about....
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The prop full forward won't reduce engine longetivity. Running at 2300 and having the cylinders and pistons expand at different speeds will, however, cause some nice damage.

I'm usually very quiet when entering the pattern. 2000 RPM and leaned for about 5 gph :)

-Felix
 
After engine startup.

Considering that a run-up shouldn't take more than 10-20 seconds, it's not that big of a deal to do it, and I have caught fouled plugs after being shut down only for 5 mins to drop-and-go. It drives me crazy hearing a plane sitting at the end of the runway for 1-2 minutes at runup power. :dunno:
 
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On my nice simple cherokee, I perform a runup before each takeoff following
an engine shutdown/engine start. I do not do a runup if I'm doing a full-stop
and taxi back to the runway.
 
"Before every takeoff"
Hm, given that an "unstick" condition following a "stick" condition during touch-and-go's qualify as a take-off, does this mean that those who checked "Before every takeoff" do run-ups while rolling on the runway following touchdown? :)
 
SteveW said:
"Before every takeoff"
Hm, given that an "unstick" condition following a "stick" condition during touch-and-go's qualify as a take-off, does this mean that those who checked "Before every takeoff" do run-ups while rolling on the runway following touchdown? :)
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Good point. I clarified my answer a bit. :)
 
I do a the full procedure before every takeoff.

How else would I see if I get to use all 6 cylinders this time?

(I had a cold cylinder - or loose EDM wire - when I started up this weekend. I cleared it. )
 
First takeoff of the day, and lots of subsequent ones, but not every one.

I leave the engine leaned until the prop comes forward, which is less than 1000 AGL. GUMPS is great and all, but those who push the prop forward right after they drop the gear are probably going to full RPM and ****ing off the airport neighbors... I don't push the prop in until I'm out of the governing range, and the mixture goes in with it. I also lean aggressively on the ground.

Now, should I somehow forget to lean on the ground, I'll do another runup. If the plane isn't singing the right notes, I'll do another runup. If I feel like it, I'll do another runup. If the wind is out of the north, I'll do another runup... OK, just kidding. But while there are a lot of things that'll cause me to do another runup, I can't honestly say that I do one every single takeoff.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
First takeoff of the day, and lots of subsequent ones, but not every one.

Now, should I somehow forget to lean on the ground, I'll do another runup. If the plane isn't singing the right notes, I'll do another runup. If I feel like it, I'll do another runup. If the wind is out of the north, I'll do another runup... OK, just kidding. But while there are a lot of things that'll cause me to do another runup, I can't honestly say that I do one every single takeoff.
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Do you actually find time to fly between all those runups :D
 
Run-up before each takeoff, including mag check, exercising the prop, verifying instrument air and verifying alternator charging. I have never had a flaw which negated taking off yet, and I hope it stays that way.

I do not ever, under any circumstance, do touch & gos in a complex aircraft. Time permitting and long runway, stop and go maybe, but no TGL. Ever.
 
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