Routing question - forgive me I'm stil a n00b

FLYGUYRY

FLYGUYRY

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Ryan_M
*still

So, the last few times I've flown from KMTN to KHGR, I've gotten the following routing:

EMI EMI321023 HGR

Once airborne however, both times I've been cleared direct HAIGS then direct KHGR (or very shortly thereafter) It appears to me that HAIGS is in the exact same place as EMI321023, so if I'm filed as a /G why don't they just give me EMI HAIGS HGR?
 
Probably because the computer won't let them.

Resistance is futile...you WILL be assimilated!
 
I dunno, the FAA's routing computer and software is state of the art stuff from 1988 so it should spit out perfect material with no adjustment needed by controllers. I have never gotten a re-route or had a single concern.

I typed all that with a straight keyboard.
 
HAIGS isn't a Victor airways routing fix. HAIGS is a fix used on the ILS 27 @ HGR. Maybe ATC isn't "allowed" to give you this routing...because you're not shooting the approach or shooting the practice approach. Dunno. Maybe a few of the more seasoned aviators on here can answer.

Some ATC in different parts of the country like to use the "cross ABC radial 123 at XX miles" routing, I've noticed. It's easy enough to plug that into Foreflight, etc, but why not just use a intersection? Maybe I'm missing something...
 
S Joslin said:
HAIGS isn't a Victor airways routing fix. HAIGS is a fix used on the ILS 27 @ HGR. Maybe ATC isn't "allowed" to give you this routing...because you're not shooting the approach or shooting the practice approach. Dunno. Maybe a few of the more seasoned aviators on here can answer.

Some ATC in different parts of the country like to use the "cross ABC radial 123 at XX miles" routing, I've noticed. It's easy enough to plug that into Foreflight, etc, but why not just use a intersection? Maybe I'm missing something...
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's not really a big deal, but mostly just curious as to why it works out that way. Maybe tonight when I fly that route I'll put in EMI HAIGS as my routing and see what I get back. It is a little easier to just put a fix in and follow GPS the whole way rather than waiting for 2 VORs to center, but since they always give it to me once airborne anyways I suppose it doesn't matter too much
 
FLYGUYRY said:
Yeah, it's not really a big deal, but mostly just curious as to why it works out that way. Maybe tonight when I fly that route I'll put in EMI HAIGS as my routing and see what I get back. It is a little easier to just put a fix in and follow GPS the whole way rather than waiting for 2 VORs to center, but since they always give it to me once airborne anyways I suppose it doesn't matter too much
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer, my guess is because HAIGS is not on IFR chart... What do you file when you get this routing? I fly from KDMW and get EMI or BAL as first point always. That usually does not survive the first contact with Potomac
 
The SFRA area is screwy. Last week I came back to DMW from OFP. I online filed CSN BARIN MIXNN direct. The ATC computer sent me an email reroute CSN MRB v166. Clearance delivery gave me TAPPA PXT LOUIE GRACO PALEO BAL DIRECT. Take off, stand by for reroute...you guessed it. CSN BARIN MIXNN direct.
 
Yeah, well tried to file for HAIGS direct but again got the same clearance, I guess it is because it's a fix on an approach but it's just funny how once I hit EMI they give me direct HAIGS (shrug)
 
My guess is that the approach is in the sector of the controller who cleared you direct HAIGS?
 
FLYGUYRY said:
*still

So, the last few times I've flown from KMTN to KHGR, I've gotten the following routing:

EMI EMI321023 HGR

Once airborne however, both times I've been cleared direct HAIGS then direct KHGR (or very shortly thereafter) It appears to me that HAIGS is in the exact same place as EMI321023, so if I'm filed as a /G why don't they just give me EMI HAIGS HGR?
Click to expand...

The computer probably has EMI EMI321023 HGR adapted as the preferential route. HAIGS does not appear on enroute charts so that's probably a better way to go. Given that HAIGS is in the exact same place as EMI321023, why do they bother clearing you direct HAIGS once airborne?
 
roncachamp said:
The computer probably has EMI EMI321023 HGR adapted as the preferential route. HAIGS does not appear on enroute charts so that's probably a better way to go. Given that HAIGS is in the exact same place as EMI321023, why do they bother clearing you direct HAIGS once airborne?
Click to expand...

Couldn't tell you, that's what I was wondering too, my guess is because it's easier (and more accurate) to track coming up to and leaving EMI, since going the radial route I have to wait for the cone of confusion to clear before I can track it preciesly
 
FLYGUYRY said:
Couldn't tell you, that's what I was wondering too, my guess is because it's easier (and more accurate) to track coming up to and leaving EMI, since going the radial route I have to wait for the cone of confusion to clear before I can track it preciesly
Click to expand...

I misunderstood your question in the OP. I thought you were questioning why you were initially given EMI321023 as a fix, not HAIGS, since they're the same place. But they are actually altering your route slightly by removing EMI.

BTW, you can avoid the cone of confusion by using your GPS to fly the original route.
 
roncachamp said:
The computer probably has EMI EMI321023 HGR adapted as the preferential route. HAIGS does not appear on enroute charts so that's probably a better way to go. Given that HAIGS is in the exact same place as EMI321023, why do they bother clearing you direct HAIGS once airborne?
Click to expand...

Because in this part of the world, Heaven or Hell, you're going through EMI. Only everybody gets vectors before actually reaching there.
 
And EMI D-> HGR would take you right through the middle of P-40 (even in the non-supersized configuration).

Of course, they could have also given W73 as a fix. I've gotten a fix out of the BOS area that after zig-zagging me down the coast sent me to IAD (not AML mind you, the VOR on the field, but the airport itself).
 
There are some oddities in the system like this. Things you'll notice:

- Sometimes you'll get an airway, Fix, and then same airway again (I'm told this is to hold the hands of people with crapy GPSs like the 430 that don't understand what an airway is and thus they read out the turns to 'help'... for everyone else this routing just looks silly)

- Get two VORs on your route but not the airway that runs between those VORs. Then you get a shortcut to a fix that's on the airway between the two VORs but not programmed into your route... takes some quick programming to fix

- Get a VOR and then a radial to a Fix, when in RNAV sense you're just flying from the VOR to the Fix... the radial is superfluous

Point being one always just needs to be ready for some quick reprogramming in flight or good situational awareness to understand what the routes look like and what's going on around your route. If you fly in an area often you sort of learn the quirks, but if in a new place this can all certainly result in some curveballs.
 
I've given up on inputting my flight plan into the plane until I get the actual routing from clearance delivery and even then I don't change what's loaded into ForeFlight. Leaving KLBX south of Houston I'm told expect one route by florelfight, given a second route when I pick up my clearance, and then get a third route as soon as I switch to the Houston controller.

Going east or north I end up with the same route each time so I tried filing what I was given what I was going to get from Houston but ended up with the same drill, one route as the expected route from Floreflight, the same second route I'm always given when picking up my clearance (which I loaded into the GPS in the plane) and then getting the route I initially filed for when I switched to the Houston controller.

I've decided that it is what it is and have gotten good at making route changes on the 430. I've also saved the routes I expect to really get as favorites in ForeFlight so I can switch the iPad quickly when I get the reroute from Houston.

Gary
 
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