Routing based on equipment

[paflyer]

So on filing /A, for example, can the computer assign routes not achievable without GPS?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Do you mean will it 'correct' your route to an rnav route even if you file vor's?
Because when I am /A, I file non rnav routes and that is usually my clearance.
Now, ATC will sometimes not know, or forget I am /A and offer direct xxxxx and then the chat begins.

 

[airheadpenguin]

I have filed /A and been given Q-routes which require a GPS. Usually a simple reminder and a proposed route that you want resolves this.

 

[Radar Contact]

So on filing /A, for example, can the computer assign routes not achievable without GPS?

When planes file /A our NAS computer assigns the appropriate PDR (preferred departure route) if needed based on the route you filed. As mentioned, sometimes a controller may (trying to be helpful) clear you on a short cut that you can't accept and you'll have to remind them about your /A. In today's world primarily dominated by /G IFR planes, sometimes we gloss over that part.

 

[paflyer]

All too easy to enter the clearance from C/D into the iPad and then not realize until after signing off (because now you have to get the charts out to see how you're going to do it) that you can't legally fly it. What do you do, tell the C/D guy you'll check to see if the routing is legal and call him back?

The enroute reroute is even kookier esp single pilot in IMC with no autopilot...

 

[Radar Contact]

What do you do, tell the C/D guy you'll check to see if the routing is legal and call him back?

That's what I would do. It is very easy for C/D to amend your route. Easier than the approach controller who has to call over to C/D and ask them to do it. Center's have the ability to re-route at the scope. I'd just make sure you are happy/legal with your route prior to departure and if not tell C/D what you need to make sure you are.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

You will be familiar with the first part of your route (ie the first waypoint or SID) from preflight, will immediately notice if the clearance they give you is not possible (ie rnav or direct to a fix), and can ask for changes on that right away. That will likely get you 15-20 minutes away depending on your speed and by that time you will have reviewed and know if the rest of the route is possible, negotiate for something you can do. Saves time idling or sitting in a hot airplane.

 

[paflyer]

You will be familiar with the first part of your route (ie the first waypoint or SID) from preflight, will immediately notice if the clearance they give you is not possible (ie rnav or direct to a fix), and can ask for changes on that right away. That will likely get you 15-20 minutes away depending on your speed and by that time you will have reviewed and know if the rest of the route is possible, negotiate for something you can do. Saves time idling or sitting in a hot airplane.

And if it's not negotiable, you get vectored to God knows where. Or get asked "say intentions". After all, you did accept the clearance before departing.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

And if it's not negotiable, you get vectored to God knows where. Or get asked "say intentions". After all, you did accept the clearance before departing.

Have never ever experienced this nor heard of it. It could happen. But the atc I deal with mostly wants to help you on your way as expeditiously as possible.

 

[paflyer]

Have never ever experienced this nor heard of it. It could happen. But the atc I deal with mostly wants to help you on your way as expeditiously as possible.

In other words, get you the hell out of their airspace just as soon as possible!

 

[bobmrg]

Everything is negotiable. You can always ask for a different route. In the case of an IFR clearance, however, once you read it back you own it...so don't read it back until it is what you want.

Bob

 

[midlifeflyer]

Everything is negotiable. You can always ask for a different route. In the case of an IFR clearance, however, once you read it back you own it...so don't read it back until it is what you want.

Bob

I really don’t see a problem with reading back an IFR departure clearance received on the ground, hearing “readback correct” to ensure I heard it right, then reviewing it and, upon discovering a problem, calling back to say unable.

 

[paflyer]

Everything is negotiable. You can always ask for a different route. In the case of an IFR clearance, however, once you read it back you own it...so don't read it back until it is what you want.

Bob

Is that like voting on it to see what's in it?

 

[luvflyin]

Everything is negotiable. You can always ask for a different route. In the case of an IFR clearance, however, once you read it back you own it...so don't read it back until it is what you want.

Bob

I wouldn't go quite that far. You don't really 'own it' until you take off.

 

[luvflyin]

I really don’t see a problem with reading back an IFR departure clearance received on the ground, hearing “readback correct” to ensure I heard it right, then reviewing it and, upon discovering a problem, calling back to say unable.

I agree there. Reading it back and then calling back later to get it changed if necessary works. Getting it and then saying "I'll get back to you with the readback" also works. In the long run over the course of many clearances I'd guess that reading it back right away would result in fewer transmissions.

 

[Larry in TN]

"Unable [RNAV segment], request [alternate routing you can fly]".

Also, It's not "without GPS", it is "without RNAV" (or 'suitable RNAV'). GPS is just one kind of RNAV but there are others.