Right Turn-out Approved

[JasonM]

Just wondering if I understood this correctly. Yesterday I called up the tower and let them know I was ready to takeoff. I was told "RWY 20 Cleared for takeoff, Right Turn-out Approved"

There was some heavy rain coming in at the field which I didn't notice until I made the call, so I assume they gave me that clearance to turn so that I would be able to avoid it. When I was about half way down the runway and about 300 AGL I noticed some rain starting and thought I better start my right turn to avoid the storm coming in faster than I had anticipated.

I never did hear anything from the tower about my turn. Did I do anything wrong other than taking off when I prob. should have just waited it out? Does Right or Left turn-out approved allow you to turn out when ever you want/need?

 

[MAKG1]

If they wanted you to turn right immediately, they would have said so. None of this "approved" stuff. "Turn right immediately after takeoff" (or prior to some landmark). You'll hear this when taking off from KHWD on 28R with a southbound departure or pattern work, for instance. The issue is a very nearby Class C surface area boundary.

They anticipated you might want it and advised you to go ahead. You did nothing at all wrong, aside from perhaps not waiting out the rain. Even that's disputable. Rain is not IMC by itself. You can have light rain from a 6000 foot ceiling with 30 miles visibility, and it's just fine to fly in that VFR (below 5500 feet AGL, of course).

 

[JasonM]

ok, great. The closer I was getting to that rain the scarier it looked. I have flown in light rain, but these clouds were looking pretty dark as I was approaching. I do think I made a bad decision to takeoff. I'm just glad they gave me that clearance and I am glad I didn't do anything wrong as far as ATC is concerned. This was a second leg of a solo XC. I had just landed and taxied back.

 

[dukeblue219]

I'm just glad they gave me that clearance and I am glad I didn't do anything wrong as far as ATC is concerned.

It wasn't a "clearance" technically. Also, if they had just said "cleared for takeoff runway XX" you could have still made that right turn out to avoid the rain. You wouldn't have been breaking any ATC instructions. If you were uncomfortable doing so, or perhaps had told the tower you were going to depart in the opposite direction, then you could just make a quick call to advise.

This was a second leg of a solo XC. I had just landed and taxied back.

I think as a general rule most instructors wouldn't want you messing around with rain (beyond a brief sprinkle) on a student cross country, but you recognized that already and it sounds like the weather overall wasn't too bad. Not a huge deal.

 

[Velocity173]

They're not going to care about an early turn unless it affects others in closed traffic. If no one was on a right downwind then you're good. If someone was on downwind anyway they would have let you know about it.

Personally, unless I hear "early turn approved" I stick to the AIM recommended pattern. Nothing wrong with what you did though.

 

[Warrior]

I have had a controller tell me to start my turn immediately on one of those right turn clearances . My flying instructor drilled into me no turns below 400 feet (agl). But I did obey the controller and started the turn immediately.

 

[jesse]

I have had a controller tell me to start my turn immediately on one of those right turn clearances . My flying instructor drilled into me no turns below 400 feet (agl). But I did obey the controller and started the turn immediately.

I've told more than one controller "unable, will turn when I reach X altitude" when they ask for an immediate turn down lower than I'd desire and teach my students the same. In fact I did just that on my CFI ride. Sometimes those turns provide one with no options if something goes wrong.

 

[bqmassey]

I was taught that you shouldn't turn before the end of the runway at a towered airport. I've never heard ATC get on anyone about it though, so I guess it's not a regulatory thing?

The ATC where I fly generally approves a turn in the take off clearance, so I haven't had to worry about it. So, absent of permission to turn, the accepted practice is to make turns to stay in the pattern?

 

[jesse]

I was taught that you shouldn't turn before the end of the runway at a towered airport. I've never heard ATC get on anyone about it though, so I guess it's not a regulatory thing?

The ATC where I fly generally approves a turn in the take off clearance, so I haven't had to worry about it. So, absent of permission to turn, the accepted practice is to make turns to stay in the pattern?

If you haven't been told which way to go -- ask.

As to the guidance for when to turn, all there is that I'm aware of, is the AIM 4-3-3 which states:

4. Continue straight ahead until beyond departure end of runway.

5. If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude.

 

[roncachamp]

I was taught that you shouldn't turn before the end of the runway at a towered airport. I've never heard ATC get on anyone about it though, so I guess it's not a regulatory thing?

The AIM states; "If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to
crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude."

The ATC where I fly generally approves a turn in the take off clearance, so I haven't had to worry about it. So, absent of permission to turn, the accepted practice is to make turns to stay in the pattern?

Sure, if you're staying in the pattern.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The ATC where I fly generally approves a turn in the take off clearance, so I haven't had to worry about it. So, absent of permission to turn, the accepted practice is to make turns to stay in the pattern?

Let's change that wording just a bit -

Absent an instruction of when and where to turn it's up to you, with the generally accepted practice being described (a) in the AIM guidance Jesse quoted and (b) the AIM guidance (4-3-5) about unexpected maneuvers in the pattern.

 

[N801BH]

I was taught that you shouldn't turn before the end of the runway at a towered airport. I've never heard ATC get on anyone about it though, so I guess it's not a regulatory thing?

The ATC where I fly generally approves a turn in the take off clearance, so I haven't had to worry about it. So, absent of permission to turn, the accepted practice is to make turns to stay in the pattern?

I need about 100 feet runway for my take off.... Since I fly about every day to check my irrigation ditch, the tower is familier with my route and I get "cleared for a instant left turn".. That is assuming there is not another plane taxiing to the active... I am usually at 500 AGL as I pass over the PAPI's but it can scare the transient flyers as I pass over their cockpits.....

 

[MAKG1]

I was taught that you shouldn't turn before the end of the runway at a towered airport. I've never heard ATC get on anyone about it though, so I guess it's not a regulatory thing?

It's a Real Good Idea.

Usually.

Try that at KHWD and you're going to either bust Class C or make a REALLY steep turn.

 

[DesertNomad]

I ask for a right turn out if I want it. At my home airport there are parallel runways 16L and 16R. GA uses 16L as it is closest to the FBO. Commercial jets use 16R (KRNO).

If I am taking off on 16L but want to go north-west, I ask for a right turn out as part of my call since I will be flying over 16R during my turn. If it is approved I try to do the turn at about 400' or over the cross-runway (7/25).

 

[BillTIZ]

I need about 100 feet runway for my take off.... Since I fly about every day to check my irrigation ditch, the tower is familier with my route and I get "cleared for a instant left turn".. That is assuming there is not another plane taxiing to the active... I am usually at 500 AGL as I pass over the PAPI's but it can scare the transient flyers as I pass over their cockpits.....

I'm with you. I was at a towered airport, takeoff north, headed south. I asked tower for a 500ft AGL left turn out on course. They denied the request, "turn at departure end".

So I takeoff and climb at Vx, at mid field I call the tower. "I'm above TPA, can I turn left now?". They approved my turn and I could hear a chuckle in his voice.

Maybe they just wanted to see the max performance departure. :wink2:

 

[Shawn]

Just wondering if I understood this correctly. Yesterday I called up the tower and let them know I was ready to takeoff. I was told "RWY 20 Cleared for takeoff, Right Turn-out Approved"?

What was you direction of flight/intentions that you provided ground/tower upon initial contact?...may provide some more refrence to the tower instructions.

If I hear "right turn out approved" I take that to mean as soon as I turn X-wind in a normal traffic pattern, I am free to go on my merry way as I intended with my direction of flight.

 

[JasonM]

What was you direction of flight/intentions that you provided ground/tower upon initial contact?...may provide some more refrence to the tower instructions.

If I hear "right turn out approved" I take that to mean as soon as I turn X-wind in a normal traffic pattern, I am free to go on my merry way as I intended with my direction of flight.

Rwy 20 Right traffic and my Heading was about 310

 

[N801BH]

I'm with you. I was at a towered airport, takeoff north, headed south. I asked tower for a 500ft AGL left turn out on course. They denied the request, "turn at departure end".

So I takeoff and climb at Vx, at mid field I call the tower. "I'm above TPA, can I turn left now?". They approved my turn and I could hear a chuckle in his voice.

Maybe they just wanted to see the max performance departure. :wink2:

I did slightly better then that a few months ago.....

Wind was right down the runway @23, minimum gusting but maybe to 25-27 or so. Cool morning around 45f .... I was light on fuel and it was just me in the plane. I tell the tower I want to experiment on maximum rate climbs so they hold me till all incoming / departing traffic is clear for 15 minutes or so... Runway is 6200 feet long with the fence line another 800 feet or so... My maximum rate of climb is around 29-31 mph indicated airspeed as I try to hit the greatest VSI numbers.....

I lined up at the very end and locked the brakes, went full throttle and rotated at 25... The 2000FPM VSI stayed pegged and the ground speed showed 10 13 mph....

I called the tower as I passed the far end fence line and told them I was clear of their Delta airspace passing through 9700 msl.. I had gained 3300 feet of altitude in the length of the runway... Needless to say..... all of us were impressed.....

A new "unofficial" record for KJAC... and me..

 

[bnt83]

If you haven't been told which way to go -- ask.

As to the guidance for when to turn, all there is that I'm aware of, is the AIM 4-3-3 which states:

At night I attempt to be around 2100 rpm or less when over the Highlands and if departing 17, turning before I get to the Capital Lake housing since I usually am running WOT and fairly low. Other than that I turn when passed the departure end or 500ish, whichever is last

 

[poadeleted20]

"Turn right immediately" is an instruction which must be obeyed, and controllers don't say "immediately" unless the really mean it -- that's usually reserved for an impending conflict. "Right turn approved" is an authorization to turn right, not a command, and is usually issued only in response to a request from the pilot, either direct or indirect. By "indirect", I mean you may have told them you're VFR to the north, and they have you taking off on Rwy 28, so the fastest way to go north would be to turn right after takeoff even if you never explicitly asked for a right turn.

 

[MAKG1]

Yeah, whenever you hear the word "immediately," pay close attention.

I last heard it while enroute on course 002 at 3500, at full-rental cruise speed (130 KIAS) -- and I ran into nearly opposing traffic in a Mooney, probably at 178. I was on flight following, and NorCal ordered an immediate 500 foot climb for traffic avoidance. I let the aircraft lose 40 knots in the climb, and got it up there in a real hurry. Then, that aircraft blew by below, FAST. I didn't see it before the climb.

 

[skidoo]

I had a controller "Ask" me if I would mind making an early left turn over the field. I said sure and did so. He then thanked me and said it sure made it easier for him..