Requirements to get a good Part 91 Job...

Snaggletooth

Snaggletooth

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What type of Hour requirements, Ratings, Endorsements, and other Quals is needed to get a good Part 91 Job?
 
Corporate jet jobs usually require prior turbine experience. They usually get their folks from the military or regional carriers or 135 operators. Figure a couple thousand hours in ME turbine aircraft to be competitive for a job you'd like.
 
...and have connections high up the hiring chain.
 
Jets ain't really what I want to fly. King Air's and PC-12's maybe.

What other good Part 91 Jobs are there?
 
Snaggletooth said:
Jets ain't really what I want to fly. King Air's and PC-12's maybe.
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Probably tougher to get those jobs as they're often single-pilot aircraft, and you'll need a lot more ME PIC time to get in there than to get in the right seat of a jet.
 
Generally you have to work yourself up the food chain. Figure it something like this...

At 250 hours you can get your commercial (both single and multi). At that point you can start receiving "compensation" for flying. The two big things you can do with this are flight instruction and fly airplanes for rich people or companies operating planes under Part 91, plus ferry operations. All of this will depend on what you're insurable on.

Realistically, at 250 hours you're going to be insurable on most singles (excluding turbine and Malibus), and certain twins (mostly things like a Baron or lower).

If you get enough twin time, by 700 hours you can be insurable in cabin class and/or pressurized twins, but that requires a lot of twin time. Otherwise, they seem to want 1000 hours or more. Even then, 1000 hours seems to be their preference. Expect more than that for turbines.

Right now you're at the point of finishing up your private. Try to get as much time flying instrument, complex, multi, and cross country as you can. That will help you.
 
Ron Levy said:
Corporate jet jobs usually require prior turbine experience. They usually get their folks from the military or regional carriers or 135 operators. Figure a couple thousand hours in ME turbine aircraft to be competitive for a job you'd like.
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and a big chunk of it PIC
 
Do what ever you can to make a name for yourself , most part 91 jobs are all about who you know and happenstance.(my first 2 p91 jobs all but fell from the sky). get to know people at places you want to fly and let them know of your goals. On the flying side..Get your CFI ratings, single-pilot IFR/PIC time will build your skills faster than anything...P91 jobs want people that are turn key PIC's with SOLID IFR skills and an attitude of service.

FWIW...I know of several P91 Chief pilots who will throw any resume starting with CL-65 SIC (CRJ) type rating straight to the garbage can.... My honest best advice is to try and avoid the regional airlines like the plauge if you want a big rig p91 job..stick with small time p91 and p135..this is where most p91 corporate pilots come from.
Good luck man..
 
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taters said:
FWIW...I know of several P91 Chief pilots who will throw any resume starting with CL-65 SIC (CRJ) type rating straight to the garbage can.... My honest best advice is to try and avoid the regional airlines like the plauge if you want a big rig p91 job..stick with small time p91 and p135..this is where most p91 corporate pilots come from.
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I don't think this is necessarily true as I have seen some airline pilots cross over successfully to corporate. It's just that you need to realize that you have way more contact with the passengers than an airline pilot does. There are no doors. Where I work customer service is highly emphasized.
 
The best way to get your foot in the door is find a line man job at an FBO. You can build relationships with the folks you fuel everyday. Keep them updated on your flying progress. I worked at a local FBO for 4 years and was able to work my way from a Piper Arrow all the way to right seat in King Air 350 and PIC in a Navajo. My employers would not have considered me if I hadn't paid my dues in aviation. Right seat on regionals won't do it, even gobs of CFI time may not. It is really political. You have to get to know these people first.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think this is necessarily true as I have seen some airline pilots cross over successfully to corporate. It's just that you need to realize that you have way more contact with the passengers than an airline pilot does. There are no doors. Where I work customer service is highly emphasized.
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Yes the difference is when you click TOGA for the missed the boss is leaning over your shoulder " I have a meeting in 15 mins what's the plan". p91 operators want pilots who are used to this , as well as performing the wide array of duties that have nothing to do with flying... Yes some airline pilots cross over but I would be willing to bet most had prior corp experience or knew someone that got them in.
 
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Ron Levy said:
What do you consider a "good Part 91 job"? There are a whole world of possibilities.
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Oxymoron

But the best one I have heard of, was a delivery contract for mail and services to remote Alaska using a beaver. He logged about 14 hours a day, 365 (or as close as weather permitted) for 45 years. In those 45 years he never filed a flight plan, never flew IFR. or had an accident.
 
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Thanks for all the tips guys. Very Helpful!

Edit: What quals do you need to get a lineman job?
 
Snaggletooth said:
Thanks for all the tips guys. Very Helpful!

Edit: What quals do you need to get a lineman job?
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A pulse, and the ability to tell the difference between Jet A and 100LL and which planes take them.
 
dmccormack said:
...and an FBO that actually has line workers (getting rare these days of self-serve everything)
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Yeah, gotta go to the D, C, B places for that. Actually, on my trip to FL, I didn't pump any fuel.
SRQ, FMY, LUX. Of course the first two were towered, and at LUX, I wasn't even allowed to pump my own fuel - of course it was in a nice way. I had the option to pump my own at FMY, but was probably cheaper for them to pump it and waive the 3 days parking.
 
I've hired a number of part 91 pilots for turboprop/jet jobs over the past 15 years, some as recently as last year. Since some of the jobs were in locations other than where I live, the internet listing sites were a logical place to post the jobs.
I've always known the supply/demand ratio was heavily tilted against pilots, but was amazed by the number of responses. The competition for each job is incredibly high, as there are (or seem to be) resumes from at least 200 qualified candidates for each job posted, along with another 300 or so resumes from kids who have just completed their CFI or CMEL and assume they are ready for corporate work. I'm still getting resumes and followups from jobs posted last summer, although I removed the listing within a week due to the influx of responses.

My advice to anyone considering a professional pilot career is to be sure you really like it a lot, and are willing to accept the sacrifices and lower standard of living that it will most likely produce. The economics and outlook for the profession is dismal for the large majority, as employers understand the game and know that they can hire a pilot for the same wages in the San Francisco, CA area as in the San Marcos, TX area even though COL is 4X in CA.

If you want to fly a plane and enjoy it, get a good education and start your own business in something you're good at. That's where you can have some fun.
 
Maybe in BFE, but not here. The pool of applicants is pretty deep for those jobs at our airport, as the aspiring aviation-career guys know it's a good place to meet the players.

EdFred said:
Yeah, but that's what ya gotta need to start, which is the question that was asked. ;)
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Yes, I keep forgetting you're the center of the known universe and everything else is nothing to be even considered to exist.
 
And I keep forgetting that only one opinion matters with respect to these discussions.

EdFred said:
Yes, I keep forgetting you're the center of the known universe and everything else is nothing to be even considered to exist.
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I wanna get these two together sometime, and let 'em have a growl-off.
 
Not so fast there, big mitts, you're going to be called as a witness. You think bubba can walk into Million Air or Landmark with a two-digit IQ and get a line job? Now? Ever?

Please rise and be duly sworn prior to providing testimony.

SCCutler said:
I wanna get these two together sometime, and let 'em have a growl-off.
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I know that they have linemen over at LBX. I'm thinking about seeing if they have an opening. lol
 
wabower said:
Not so fast there, big mitts, you're going to be called as a witness. You think bubba can walk into Million Air or Landmark with a two-digit IQ and get a line job? Now? Ever?

Please rise and be duly sworn prior to providing testimony.
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MillionAire and Landmark serve a very small number of GA airports.
 
wabower said:
And so? Don't most FBO's fall into this same category?
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Don't know what you're asking....

If a kid wants a flight line job, he'd be better served joining the US Air Force or US Navy.

The likelihood of getting a job at one the premiere FBOs such as MA and LM are low, since there are so few MA and LM nationwide.
 
If you can find an FBO that does training and 135 charter work would probably help. working at this kind of FBO you will get to know a wide variety of pilots. Depending on the kinds of 135 work you might be able to get some flight time on deadhead legs of 135 flights.

The FBO I used to work for did 135 charters for the state transporting prisoners. They often took employees along as the required guard during the Charter, then the Guard would often get dual instruction or PIC time if applicable for the deadhead portion of the flight.

I am not real familiar with the bigger FBO's such as Millianaire, other than I try to avoid them. But my concern would be that as an employee you would see and fuel a lot of expensive aircraft but probably wouldn't get many opportunities get to know the pilots, owners or the opportunity to fly.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Snaggletooth said:
Thanks for all the tips guys. Very Helpful!

Edit: What quals do you need to get a lineman job?
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The nephew worked behind the counter at an FBO when he was going to college. That got him into a King Air seat (mostly flying body parts). He now does that job in the winter and works for an air show team (moving aircraft, giving VIP rides, flying the photo plane, etc.) during the summer.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The nephew worked behind the counter at an FBO when he was going to college. That got him into a King Air seat (mostly flying body parts). He now does that job in the winter and works for an air show team (moving aircraft, giving VIP rides, flying the photo plane, etc.) during the summer.
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But how offen does that happen. lol
 
Snaggletooth said:
But how offen does that happen. lol
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You can't win if you don't play. On the other hand, everyone's story is different and no one can give you a formula for success or guarantee it. Right now though it's probably a good idea just to concentrate on getting your private, instrument and commercial since those are realistic medium-term goals and you are going to need to do those things no matter what part of aviation you decide on. If it's possible it would be a good thing to get a job which exposes you to aviation, whether it's as a line tech or something else.
 
Most surefire way to become a company pilot:


1 - Start company
2 - Work like hell to make it a successful company
3 - Retain control of the company
4 - Buy company airplane and fly it
 
Everskyward said:
You can't win if you don't play. On the other hand, everyone's story is different and no one can give you a formula for success or guarantee it. Right now though it's probably a good idea just to concentrate on getting your private, instrument and commercial since those are realistic medium-term goals and you are going to need to do those things no matter what part of aviation you decide on. If it's possible it would be a good thing to get a job which exposes you to aviation, whether it's as a line tech or something else.
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Thanks.
 
Snaggletooth said:
What type of Hour requirements, Ratings, Endorsements, and other Quals is needed to get a good Part 91 Job?
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A good one requires none of the above. A good one requires you to have the good fortune of meeting the right person which typically will happen while you have a bad one. For the bad one, you'll need minimum commercial, preferably with an IR and about 500hrs PIC and preferably 100+multi and 75 Tailwheel. If you are willing to take a s-t job, 250hrs and a commercial and the willingness to share a refrigerator box to live in with another banner tow pilot. You can also buy your way into the right seat of some larger stuff at Gulfstream.

Regardless, it's going to cost you a minimum of about $12,000 to get the qualifications to start applying, because until you have your commercial, the chances of finding your sugar daddy are diminutive.

So, the answer to your question, "What do I need?" is "Money".
 
At VNY the FBO's go through line guy really fast. It seems like new faces appear every two or three weeks. That must be when the drug test results come back. There are a couple of guys that seem to have been around for quite a while. Some of them are aspiring professional pilots and others are not. Many of these guys have moved from driving the fueler to the right seat of an aircraft because someone likes what they see.

For the most part lots of us in the 91 world hire the individual before we see what ratings and hours the guy may have. At the company that I work for we hire guys with different types of experience from high time to low time. Some have type ratings and others don't.

I just got off of a 17 day trip. On Sunday I go out on a 14 day trip. I am flying with the same guy on both trips. So getting along with one another is pretty important. We had a guy that came from the airlines. He made it for little over a year. He never made it passed working the gear, flaps and radio. He was a poor pilot. We couldn't even let him fly on deadhead legs. So now he is gone. We have had other guys that came from a flight instruction background and they were great. They would soak up knowledge like a sponge. Those kind are hard to hang onto because they are going places.

I would rather look at a CFI with no turbine time or other corporate experience over a guy that has experience with the airlines. Right now I have noticed a local CFI that seems to have it together very well. So as soon as we have another opening I will encourage her to apply for the job. I know for a fact that she has no turbine time and a limited amount of ME. However, she is thorough and really works well with her co workers and students. You never know who is watching and noticing.
 
taters said:
FWIW...I know of several P91 Chief pilots who will throw any resume starting with CL-65 SIC (CRJ) type rating straight to the garbage can.... My honest best advice is to try and avoid the regional airlines like the plauge if you want a big rig p91 job..stick with small time p91 and p135..this is where most p91 corporate pilots come from.
Good luck man..
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That is great advise. We run like hell when we see CL-65 SIC.
 
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