Requirements to get a good Part 91 Job...

[Everskyward]

That is great advise. We run like hell when we see CL-65 SIC.

I think this an unfair stereotype of former airline pilots. Their success in transitioning to the corporate/charter world has far more to do with their individual personalities as it does the job they had previously, especially if they left that job because they felt it didn't suit them. If you are automatically dismissing the idea of hiring former CL-65 SICs you are probably missing the opportunity to hire some good people.

 

[LearDriver]

I think this an unfair stereotype of former airline pilots. Their success in transitioning to the corporate/charter world has far more to do with their individual personalities as it does the job they had previously, especially if they left that job because they felt it didn't suit them. If you are automatically dismissing the idea of hiring former CL-65 SICs you are probably missing the opportunity to hire some good people.

We have seen a couple of these guys now. Every one of these guys had an ego problem. We could see it in the interviews. Only one got hired. He was related to the boss. He made it a little over a year. No one wanted to have to fly with him.

I agree with the hiring of the individual part. Personally I think that the guys that had a wet commercial with 50 hours multi and went straight to a CL-65 SIC program missed a lot of steps of learning and it shows.

 

[dmccormack]

I agree with the hiring of the individual part. Personally I think that the guys that had a wet commercial with 50 hours multi and went straight to a CL-65 SIC program missed a lot of steps of learning and it shows.

How about the guys with majority SPIFR XC PIC in SEL -- and tailwheel time?

 

[EdFred]

How about the guys with majority SPIFR XC PIC in SEL -- and tailwheel time?

We aren't worth very much.
Maybe my 0.7 MEL and 6.5 SES will put me over the top

 

[Everskyward]

We have seen a couple of these guys now. Every one of these guys had an ego problem. We could see it in the interviews. Only one got hired. He was related to the boss. He made it a little over a year. No one wanted to have to fly with him.

I don't think a sample of two is necessarily a good indication. You might have gotten the two duds. I have worked for quite a while at a place that keeps about 25 pilots on staff so I have seen quite a few over the years and they have been from all kinds of backgrounds. It is true that airline pilots need to adapt but so do freight dogs and former military pilots. I had a lot of adapting to do as I was formerly an aerial survey pilot with a fairly limited CFI background.

I agree with the hiring of the individual part. Personally I think that the guys that had a wet commercial with 50 hours multi and went straight to a CL-65 SIC program missed a lot of steps of learning and it shows.

I could agree with that but the place where I work doesn't hire people without a lot of PIC time because the entry level job is generally single pilot King Air so I haven't seen any of these pilots until they have gotten more experience than that in the interim.

 

[wabower]

What do you think they missed that every "right stuff" pilot should have?

We have seen a couple of these guys now. Every one of these guys had an ego problem. We could see it in the interviews. Only one got hired. He was related to the boss. He made it a little over a year. No one wanted to have to fly with him.

I agree with the hiring of the individual part. Personally I think that the guys that had a wet commercial with 50 hours multi and went straight to a CL-65 SIC program missed a lot of steps of learning and it shows.

 

[LearDriver]

What do you think they missed that every "right stuff" pilot should have?

From the ones that I saw and other guys that I know saw for interviews. After all some of us do share notes and refer applicants to other operators if we aren't in need of anyone at the time. Here are some of the issues that we noticed right away that would be really difficult to deal with:

Huge egos. The sense was that they were airline pilots flying jets. That doesn't work well with most of us because of having freight and 135 experience know what it takes to be a good pilot. It isn't paying 70k and going to flight school for 6 months and being set in the right seat of an RJ.

Inability to understand that there isn't a huge support staff to help accomplish the tasks at hand.

Inability to fly a jet with the auto pilot off. Having trouble flying straight and level at 250 kts. Altitude deviations of more than 300 feet and airspeed deviations of plus or minus 20 kts doesn't cut it.

Wanting to chat up the passengers when they have other work that needs to be done.

Giving the briefing that the captain gave the F/O at the beginning of the flying day to the Principle for the trip as it was his own.

Need for constant reaffirming of what a great pilot they were.

Inability to keep track of where the airplane was. We didn't have an MFD in the airplane at the time. This was just a lack of basic skills.

Getting lost on arrivals and thoroughly lost and useless if you ever had to go hold somewhere.

Constantly getting lost while we were taxiing around at large airports. Even though it was an airport that they had flown at while at the airlines.

Those are just some of what we have seen in working with these kinds of pilots. I believe that had they come out of flight school and gotten their CFI and put in about 1000 hours instructing, most of these problems that they have would have no longer be problems. Out of the guys that I saw, I personally liked all of them but one. Its too bad because missing that important step of being a CFI is going to hurt their true skill and ability in the long run.

 

[Ted]

We aren't worth very much.
Maybe my 0.7 MEL and 6.5 SES will put me over the top

Doubtful... but the single engine pilots do have hopes with flying Caravans and Pilatapus... but that still requires that you get some good complex time and they'll want you flying turbines.

Good ol' American know-who...

 

[RotorAndWing]

I think this an unfair stereotype of former airline pilots. Their success in transitioning to the corporate/charter world has far more to do with their individual personalities as it does the job they had previously, especially if they left that job because they felt it didn't suit them. If you are automatically dismissing the idea of hiring former CL-65 SICs you are probably missing the opportunity to hire some good people.

yes!

 

[RotorAndWing]

We have seen a couple of these guys now. Every one of these guys had an ego problem. We could see it in the interviews. Only one got hired. He was related to the boss. He made it a little over a year. No one wanted to have to fly with him.

Speaking of ego problems.........

 

[RotorAndWing]

From the ones that I saw and other guys that I know saw for interviews. After all some of us do share notes and refer applicants to other operators if we aren't in need of anyone at the time. Here are some of the issues that we noticed right away that would be really difficult to deal with:

Huge egos. The sense was that they were airline pilots flying jets. That doesn't work well with most of us because of having freight and 135 experience know what it takes to be a good pilot. It isn't paying 70k and going to flight school for 6 months and being set in the right seat of an RJ.

Inability to understand that there isn't a huge support staff to help accomplish the tasks at hand.

Inability to fly a jet with the auto pilot off. Having trouble flying straight and level at 250 kts. Altitude deviations of more than 300 feet and airspeed deviations of plus or minus 20 kts doesn't cut it.

Wanting to chat up the passengers when they have other work that needs to be done.

Giving the briefing that the captain gave the F/O at the beginning of the flying day to the Principle for the trip as it was his own.

Need for constant reaffirming of what a great pilot they were.

Inability to keep track of where the airplane was. We didn't have an MFD in the airplane at the time. This was just a lack of basic skills.

Getting lost on arrivals and thoroughly lost and useless if you ever had to go hold somewhere.

Constantly getting lost while we were taxiing around at large airports. Even though it was an airport that they had flown at while at the airlines.

Those are just some of what we have seen in working with these kinds of pilots. I believe that had they come out of flight school and gotten their CFI and put in about 1000 hours instructing, most of these problems that they have would have no longer be problems. Out of the guys that I saw, I personally liked all of them but one. Its too bad because missing that important step of being a CFI is going to hurt their true skill and ability in the long run.

I realize you are attempting to lump all airline pilots into the same category as low time right seat CRJ pilots, but lets look at the flip side.

I spent 24 years flying for an airline and got to sample pilots with wide and varying backgrounds. I even did a stint working on the hiring committee interviewing potential new hires.

I could go on to say how the former corporate guys for a large part never made it very far. Why? Well the biggest problem was lack of standardization and an unwillingness to adapt to a very structured environment. Also missing were any real CRM skills and extremely poor risk assessment skills.

But, then again there were some that adapted and got on with the program, just like the former commuter pilots, 135 pilots, ex military, etc.

 

[LearDriver]

Speaking of ego problems.........

No you've got that wrong. No ego problem here. Far from it. I am just relaying what I am seeing around our operation and others similar to it.

 

[LearDriver]

I realize you are attempting to lump all airline pilots into the same category as low time right seat CRJ pilots, but lets look at the flip side.

I spent 24 years flying for an airline and got to sample pilots with wide and varying backgrounds. I even did a stint working on the hiring committee interviewing potential new hires.

I could go on to say how the former corporate guys for a large part never made it very far. Why? Well the biggest problem was lack of standardization and an unwillingness to adapt to a very structured environment. Also missing were any real CRM skills and extremely poor risk assessment skills.

But, then again there were some that adapted and got on with the program, just like the former commuter pilots, 135 pilots, ex military, etc.

I wasn't lumping all airline pilots into the heap. I was talking about the lower time guys.