Request

eman1200

eman1200

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Bro do you even lift
my request is that you please stop saying "request", "with request", or "vfr request" on your initial call up. it makes you sound unprofessional, almost student like, and immediately opens the door for them to deny you. "yes pretty please would you kindly give little old me flight following pretty please thank you please. if you don't mind."

examples taken directly from the AIM:

EXAMPLE−
1. “New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo.”
2. “Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I−F−R Memphis.”
3. “Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories.”

notice how none of those have you saying "I'm about to ask you a request", followed by asking for your request.

are u ever going to call up ATC and just say hi? are u going to call them up and ask the score of a game? NO. you are almost always going to ask them for something. you know this and they know this. and the times you don't 'request' something, do you tell them your intentions first? like lets say you hear an ELT going off, do u call them up and say "ATC, moonanza 6969 with information"....then say "hi, yes, I hear an elt going off..." NO, u don't.

maybe it's just a psychological thing, where you immediately put doubt in their minds, therefore leaving it wide open for them to deny you. two examples.....let's say you're walking down the street and some stranger walks up to you and says "hey, can u do me a favor?" what's the first thing you're gonna think.....man what does this a-hole want, is he gonna ask for money? is he scamming me some how? but if the same dude walked up and right away said "hey, think u can help me lift this dead body into my trunk?" you'd be like sure, no prob. know what I'm saying?

it's not like you're less of a pilot for using the terminology, plenty of people got what they wanted by saying it, but it just sounds so silly. to me it's far worse than "ATITAPA". don't do it just cause u see a popular aviation youtuber doing it regularly....

who you're calling, tail #. BOOM, that's IT. then, assuming you know exactly what you want, tell them exactly what u want when they get back to you. sound like a pro, get your request fulfilled. I know Bob's gonna come back with "it doesn't matter", and I guess it doesn't...if u want to be a subpar pilot.

-eman1200, with request...
 
eman1200 said:
examples taken directly from the AIM:

EXAMPLE−
1. “New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo.”
2. “Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I−F−R Memphis.”
3. “Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories.”
Click to expand...
 

I didn't say don't ever use the WORD request....I typically follow the first example above, then when they call me back, I'll say blah blah blah, requesting flight following....
 
Seems to me "request" serves a purpose when the frequency is busy. It alerts ATC that what you have to say might take some of their time to deal with (route/altitude change, for example), and they don't have to deal with it immediately. Unprofessional? Not at all.
 
If I need something, I will say "Boston Center, Challenger NXXXX, request". They say go ahead, and I ask for what I need. If I say "Boston, Challenger XXXX request FL380" most of the time they come back and say "Who was that requesting higher?" or "calling center say again". The way I do it, I am sure to grab their attention and not have to repeat it.
 
Instructions unclear, crashed airplane instead. :D

I am probably a 50/50 mix of the brief "N number only" and "IFR/VFR Request" suffix that you hate. In giving it a little thought, I think it's frequency saturation that dictates my move. (more chatter, no 'suffix')

To my mind, I like the "IFR request" or "VFR request" to pre-load them into knowing what I want, but it is just a behaviour I copied from somewhere or a CFI or who knows. I do prefer brevity on the air, although these two syllables never stood out to me. In my own mind, also, "request" implies no urgency, not "mother may I"

Now I have something to mull over on my lazy sunday morning while I sip tea.
 
how about this...….."with request" , as opposed to what? why else other than requesting something would you initially be calling them up for?
 
I usually do a ‘cold call’ followed by my request for flight following. I usually don’t say the word ‘request’ though.

‘XYZ Approach, Cherokee 123 is looking for Flight Following to ABC at 6500.’
 
"Center (or departure if near a big airport) N1234 off of Kabc, x thousand, vfr direct Kdef at 6500" Wait for squawk and unless there are restrictions execute your plan.
 
I only use the word request as part of the actual request. Which is either after a cold call/response, or if it's not busy just put it out there with tail number.
 
Things that annoy me
1) Drivers who believe Right on Red is a god-given right regardless of traffic, regardless of multiple signs "NO TURN ON RED"
2) Ground guys at our Young Eagle rallyes that are so busy chatting with each other they ignore multiple airplanes coming onto the ramp and not directing them to parking.
3) Drivers using our residential street as a short cut (we're 2 blocks off the intersection of two of the busiest streets in the entire Front Range) to avoid the long light at that intersection. We're on a curve, so when the idiots realize what's happening, and because they've been exceeding the speed limit, they slam on the brakes. One of these days someone pulling out of a driveway is going to be TBoned and killed. Local police will do nothing. We've asked the city for speed bumps. Nothing.

"Request" to ATC is the least of my problems these days.
 
So you are the all knowing of what sounds professional or not? There is no set in stone way to talk to ATC. This is one of the reasons students get all tongue twisted when talking to tower/ATC, they feel they have to sound professional. I teach them to just talk to tower/atc like they were talking to someone at the bar.
 
To each their own I guess. I cold call “Cherokee N- number with VFR request.” Flying I’m busy B airspace it lets them know that my request is of less importance. Or at least that’s the way I figure it. Most of the time I get an answer with state request but on a really busy day I got a response of “No time for you right now.” Had it been of higher importance I would’ve called back but as I knew where I was headed and the clouds were high I just continued on my flight and kept my eyes out the window.
 
I started using it after watching 310pilot and his radio person use it. I’ve found I get better service, for lack of a better term, using “VFR request.” I think DoubleD nailed it; it helps ATC prioritize you.
 
I usually say: "Gotham Approach, Aircraft 123, Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want."

Most of the time Approach answers: "Aircraft 123, Gotham Approach, So tell me what you want, what you really, really want."
 
Ryanb said:
I usually do a ‘cold call’ followed by my request for flight following. I usually don’t say the word ‘request’ though.

‘XYZ Approach, Cherokee 123 is looking for Flight Following to ABC at 6500.’
Click to expand...
I agree with eman1200 and like the approach of Ryan's. Specifically, if the frequency is crowded, it's more efficient to get it done in one conversation/call-up. In the example of Ryanab, "is looking for flight following" takes literally one second more to say than "request" and avoids having them have to call you back and ask for your request.

Now what makes sense in the middle of Newark, Tetoboro, LaGuardia, JFK airspace (where I fly now) might not apply over the airspace between, say, Mobile and Pensacola (where I got my ticket). If late at night you are breaking into 10 minutes of dead silence, I think "XYZ approach, Cherokee ABC, good evening" may be just fine, even if not professional.

in any case, I think the most important thing is to make your request concise and clear once you get around to it. I was taught to know what I was going to say before keying the mic. The wrong way to do it, I think we'd all agree, is to push the mic button and then figure out what you want to say.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Van Johnston said:
I started using it after watching 310pilot and his radio person use it. I’ve found I get better service, for lack of a better term, using “VFR request.” I think DoubleD nailed it; it helps ATC prioritize you.
Click to expand...
You mean his wife, the other air traffic controller in that quiet part of the ATC world, Chicago?
 
Last edited:
eman1200 said:
maybe it's just a psychological thing,
Click to expand...
It is, but I don't think its about providing doubt. It's more about why the best interrogation tactic is silence. We all feel the need to say more.

On an initial call up, many of us have been taught to not say what we want. "Request" or "VFR request" satisfies a need to say something other than "Approach, N1234D." Of course, even if we don't want to do the full recommended trio of "who you are, where you are, and what you want," we can be more informative that "request" without telling our life history. Two out of three - Approach, Skylane 1234D, 5 west of FXNAM" is pretty short and tells ATC a lot more.
 
I've been told by instructors the way to call up for flight following is "Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport with a request. ".

I've also been yelled at by controllers for doing that instead of just saying the request. I just say it now.

"Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport requesting flight following" is in fact the same number of words.
 
ETres said:
I usually say: "Gotham Approach, Aircraft 123, Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want."

Most of the time Approach answers: "Aircraft 123, Gotham Approach, So tell me what you want, what you really, really want."
Click to expand...
Well..... that would add some "Spice" to the radio chatter.
 
cowman said:
I've been told by instructors the way to call up for flight following is "Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport with a request. ".

I've also been yelled at by controllers for doing that instead of just saying the request. I just say it now.

"Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport requesting flight following" is in fact the same number of words.
Click to expand...
Why not Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport requesting flight following to Podunk". Two more words and you've deleted an extra two communications.
 
There’s no one size fits all to this crap. If the controller is busy, I like to do a cold-call before babbling off my request, if they don’t seem to have a big workload going on, than just say your request on the first radio call to them. Worse case scenario is they ask you to repeat, cause they were on ‘landline’. ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Why not Center, Bugsmasher 12345 off of KXXX airport requesting flight following to Podunk". Two more words and you've deleted an extra two communications.
Click to expand...

so you can use those extra words you saved to add "at X thousand feet', which you should know ATC is absolutely going to ask you anyways. another thing @Van Johnston should pay attention to in those videos...…….
 
I think you may be forgetting that the controller in many cases is talking to other pilots on other frequencies, so if you KNEW that he wasn't doing anything you could just call with a tail number, position and destination "request" for flight following. But I typically assume that he is busy but silent and then tail number and "request" is a one second frequency interruption as a courtesy and a means of frequency efficiency. (The controller doesn't have to figure out why he doesn't recognize your tail number.)
 
AOPA’s Air Safety Foundation prefers “Request” or “VFR Request”.
 
kep5niner said:
That pretty much says it all.
Click to expand...

not really. that's one dude's opinion. and he seemed to be comparing spurting out all info on the initial call vs something else, which he stated throwing in 'request'.
 
kep5niner said:
That pretty much says it all.
Click to expand...
Why?

@Ryanb actually said it all.
Ryanb said:
There’s no one size fits all to this crap.
Click to expand...

since my student pilot days I have usually said who I was, where I was and what I wanted on initial call. If after listening first, it appeared ATC was busy and I first needed to get their attention, I'd shorten it to just my model call sign. I can count the number of times that hasn't worked on one hand. But it's only been 30 years so I could have definitely been missing something.
 
midlifeflyer said:
since my student pilot days I have usually said who I was, where I was and what I wanted on initial call. If after listening first, it appeared ATC was busy and I first needed to get their attention, I'd shorten it to just my model call sign. I can count the number of times that hasn't worked on one hand. But it's only been 30 years so I could have definitely been missing something.
Click to expand...

I'm very happy for you.
 
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