Request flight following or no?

David Groat

David Groat

Filing Flight Plan
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Sep 29, 2016
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Groatski
I live in the Detroit area, and when I take friends and family on airplane rides I fly this standard route around Detroit Metro's class B airspace. I'm never in controlled airspace at any point and there usually isn't much traffic.

It's been my habit to ask for flight following from Detroit's approach frequency while doing this, but I then have to listen to a ton of radio chatter and cannot have a conversation with anyone in the airplane with me. The last time I did this I got bounced around between six different ATCs and four frequencies during this hour long flight, but I do it as a service to the ATCs so they know who I am and what I'm doing.

My question is this: Who is flight following supposed to benefit, me or the ATC? If the ATCs don't care or even see my request as a nuisance then I'd rather not talk to them, it makes for a quieter and much less stressful flight.
 
I'm not a controller, but I go by the idea that ATC appreciates knowing who you are and what your intentions are.

Also, I think it impresses the pax more when they hear you talk to ATC. It makes you sound like a "real pilot". Plus, it helps force you to pay attention, which often has a side benefit of prolonging your life. Conversation with passengers is a distraction. Get more in the habit of talking to them rather than conversing with them during flight.
 
you're PIC, make a big boy decision and either get it or don't.

we had a presentation here a while back and Charlotte controllers showed up for Q&A. they all said they'd rather here from us (ie get FF) than just have you flying around, even if you're staying out of their airspace.
 
It benefits both parties. If you want to eliminate the radio noise, don't get FF.
 
Depends on the flight. Usually I'll get flight following. I like having an extra set of eyes, especially around congested areas.
 
Being around busy class B airspace, it probably isn't a bad idea.
 
Having prior experience as a controller, (dons ATC hat) I'd prefer knowing what you're doing. As a pilot (takes off ATC, dons peelot hat) it's cheap insurance as you don't always see everything out there. BUT, just because you're receiving FF doesn't relieve YOU of your see and avoid responsibilities, to yourself and perhaps more importantly, your innocent passengers.

As eman stated, make a decision.
 
Yes, their workload is increased. No, you shouldn't be worried about that. That's what they get paid for.

I'm all about freedom within the FARs though, so if you want a more quiet, leisurely flight, by all means, don't call.
 
David Groat said:
I live in the Detroit area, and when I take friends and family on airplane rides I fly this standard route around Detroit Metro's class B airspace. I'm never in controlled airspace at any point and there usually isn't much traffic.

It's been my habit to ask for flight following from Detroit's approach frequency while doing this, but I then have to listen to a ton of radio chatter and cannot have a conversation with anyone in the airplane with me. The last time I did this I got bounced around between six different ATCs and four frequencies during this hour long flight, but I do it as a service to the ATCs so they know who I am and what I'm doing.

My question is this: Who is flight following supposed to benefit, me or the ATC? If the ATCs don't care or even see my request as a nuisance then I'd rather not talk to them, it makes for a quieter and much less stressful flight.
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You're doing it for your fellow pilots. ATC's role in the equation is their Radar can assist the pilots in their duty to see and avoid each other
 
eman1200 said:
they all said they'd rather here from us (ie get FF) than just have you flying around, even if you're staying out of their airspace
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Heard the same thing from SOCAL controllers during a TRACON tour.
 
jordane93 said:
It benefits both parties. If you want to eliminate the radio noise, don't get FF.
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It benefits a third party as well. Ever got a traffic call "Traffic 12 O'clock 1 mile type unknown altitude unknown" and then see a 172 slide by 1000 feet below?

If there are a lot of handoffs going on, there is also a lot of traffic around. ATC will combine frequencies otherwise.
 
I don't usually call in for FF unless I plan on transiting airspace, or if I'm going on a particularly long flight and I get bored and want someone to talk to.

But there is a lot of value to it, particularly at night. For one thing, if things go south and you need help, they already know who you are and where you are.
 
It occurs to me you could contact them and let them know where you are doing and decline FF .
 
MAKG1 said:
If there are a lot of handoffs going on, there is also a lot of traffic around. ATC will combine frequencies otherwise.
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That traffic is usually scheduled airline flights, Boeing 757s and Airbuses circling thousands of feet above me. I'm typically at under 2,000' AGL the entire flight.

I should probably qualify my original question by saying that I'm still a fairly low-time pilot (just cracked 100 hrs) and have spent most of my flying career in uncontrolled airspace. Communicating with ATCs is still a work in progress for me, which is another reason I request FF. I'm simply trying to get a lay of the land on this, what is generally considered proper and correct procedure.
 
Something to consider - as a passenger unfamiliar or familiar with aviation, I would want my PIC to do the safe thing, even if it means the silent treatment for much of the ride.

So as PIC, don't worry that you are being rude, explain why you're doing what you're doing.

Now if you think you're missing some good conversation...pick PIC over that.

My 2 cents. Free country.
 
David Groat said:
That traffic is usually scheduled airline flights, Boeing 757s and Airbuses circling thousands of feet above me. I'm typically at under 2,000' AGL the entire flight.

I should probably qualify my original question by saying that I'm still a fairly low-time pilot (just cracked 100 hrs) and have spent most of my flying career in uncontrolled airspace. Communicating with ATCs is still a work in progress for me, which is another reason I request FF. I'm simply trying to get a lay of the land on this, what is generally considered proper and correct procedure.
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757s 1000 or more feet above you can still be a hazard due to wake turbulence, particularly if they are descending slow and dirty on an approach.

There is no aeronautical reason not to use flight following for everything you can. There are a couple of manufactured social reasons, but nothing real.

It's quite a service those guys are offering. Another pair of eyes that can see much better than you can, and have knowledge of intentions.

It's a very rare flight where I decline flight following while VFR. It's only slightly more common for ATC to decline it due to workload or coverage. I use it when shooting photos, practicing airwork, and SAR, in addition to the traditional cross countries. Declining it to have a conversation with your buddy is not good ADM. Choose airspace with less traffic for that, but get flight following anyway.
 
David Groat said:
I should probably qualify my original question by saying that I'm still a fairly low-time pilot (just cracked 100 hrs) and have spent most of my flying career in uncontrolled airspace. Communicating with ATCs is still a work in progress for me, which is another reason I request FF. I'm simply trying to get a lay of the land on this, what is generally considered proper and correct procedure.
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Then you need to anticipated something I haven't seen mentioned yet.

I have 200+ hours in my airplane (the same airplane each time). I can pick my tail number out of constant chatter now. Yes, you do need to fly the plane first and talk to pax second, but it'll get easier as you get more experience. I'd say get FF every time you can so you can practice. It -will- get easier.
 
David Groat said:
I live in the Detroit area, and when I take friends and family on airplane rides I fly this standard route around Detroit Metro's class B airspace. I'm never in controlled airspace at any point and there usually isn't much traffic.

It's been my habit to ask for flight following from Detroit's approach frequency while doing this, but I then have to listen to a ton of radio chatter and cannot have a conversation with anyone in the airplane with me. The last time I did this I got bounced around between six different ATCs and four frequencies during this hour long flight, but I do it as a service to the ATCs so they know who I am and what I'm doing.

My question is this: Who is flight following supposed to benefit, me or the ATC? If the ATCs don't care or even see my request as a nuisance then I'd rather not talk to them, it makes for a quieter and much less stressful flight.
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It benefits both. Controllers need to know who is in their airspace and what their intentions are...that gives them the opportunity to set any necessary limitations. You need that second set of eyes. When a controller tells another pilot "Traffic your 12 o'clock, I'm not talking to him," you do not want to be the mystery pilot.

Bob Gardner
 
I have never heard a single controller say anyone on FF is a nuisance. I have however heard them complain about random VFR targets getting in the way.
 
It's your decision. You can do it either way. Try both. Do what is satisfying, comfortable, what you feel is safe etc. Do it both ways. There is no one RIGHT way.
 
FF benifits both you and ATC, typically if I'm flying over 50nm and I'm going to be at a altitude/mission where they will be able to see me, I'll use them.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This one guy here did an indepth write up addressing some of this. https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...ng-atc-students-read-this.77859/#post-1645961
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Thanks, @SixPapaCharlie for re-posting this. I vaguely recall reading it shortly after joining POA. I took a recent flight with an instructor for some practice. After leaving the home Class D, we're in KC ARTCC's airspace and several smaller airports are around the area. Knowing there were a number of fly-ins and poker runs happening that morning, I thought it might be a good idea to get traffic advisories. We didn't, however, under the assumption that the center controllers didn't want to mess with a VFR target essentially turning in place. It's nice to be refreshed and reminded that's not the case at all.

I also heard from local pilots a while back that OKC Approach prefers not to provide advisories to aircraft simply practicing maneuvers outside the actual Class C boundaries (but within the 20 mile contact radius). I now realize that info may be false.
 
There's no operational benefit for a controller in providing FF. While the purpose of ATC service is ultimately to prevent a collision, there hasn't been a need for controllers to know what you're doing while VFR. If there was, then FF would be mandatory and all VFR flight plans would be sent to the overlying ATC facility. The "benefit" on the ATC side, is increasing their traffic count. Facilities get funding / ratings on traffic count. IFR is heavily weighted in that but we always reported VFRs as well.

FF isn't a nusaince either. However, you could get "aircraft calling Podunk approach, I don't have time for flight following right now." Then, it becomes a an additional service that they temporarily can't provide due to workload.

Speaking of workload. It's obviously increased on the controller end. By calling for FF, you now have to get radar ID on yet another aircraft. You have to type in another tag into the ARTS. You may have to write up another strip. That's one more aircraft to enter enter the NAS computer "FIDO." One more aircraft to issue traffic advisories and safety alerts to. One more aircraft to issue vectors (if requested). One more aircraft to issue weather alerts to. One more aircraft to keep clear of restricted areas. One more aircraft to coordinate surface area transitions and one more aircraft to facilitate a handoff on. So yes, it's definitely more workload.

When I was a student controller and asked by pilots should they chose FF, I said "sure, I need the training." Once you're qualified, there's no real benefit. Just another service provided.
 
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Wasn't there something about being able to give a VFR aircraft a heading but not a vector, or something like that?
 
James331 said:
Wasn't there something about being able to give a VFR aircraft a heading but not a vector, or something like that?
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Sure you can give suggested headings. You can also flat out vector an aircraft on FF if the pilot requests or if needed for sequencing.
 
Velocity173 said:
Sure you can give suggested headings. You can also flat out vector an aircraft on FF if the pilot requests or if needed for sequencing.
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Been awhile and I'm not 100% positive, but I think under TRSA you could issue both altitude, heading) to VFR aircraft.
 
mscard88 said:
Been awhile and I'm not 100% positive, but I think under TRSA you could issue both altitude, heading) to VFR aircraft.
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Yeah just like Cs and Bs for separation purposes. Then again, these days you can get vectored in E as well. :D

 
Thanks for posting this question. I use flight following but, due to the very, very rare ****y controller I did wonder if I was annoying them. I will never forget a trip over the California Central Valley and the ATC guy acted like someone ****ed in his cheerios to all GA he was talking to. Yes it was a busy day, non-stop on the freq but, I didn't hear anyone say anything in a manner that I hadn't heard before, confusing or verbose. With that being said, don't know what his day was like prior to my crossing his screen. Full disclosure, I never thought twice about FF because I pay taxes, yadda yadda yadda, maybe I'm the jerk for that attitude but get the thought around balancing the fun of flying and the perceived work (i.e. radio work) when poking holes in the sky with friends.

Side note, does anyone else guess the post number where someone gets their panties in a bunch when they read the OP? I would have bet the Over on this one and lost.

Btw, sometimes it freaks me out a little when I call up ATC on hand off and they don't respond to me right way, I think there is something wrong with radio. I know it is just because they have to prioritize work load just like the rest of us. I suppose that may play into the "am i annoying them" thoughts. Just because they didn't verbally respond, they know what you're doing and what frequency you are on (at least on hand-offs) if they need to give you a heads up or get you the f out of the way. Also, I really don't mind when they kick me out towards LVK to make room for traffic at OAK, just saying.
 
Yup if you're on FF and have been handed off to the next controller, he/she knows where you are and has other priorities at the moment. As you said, stand by and he'll either call you or if it slows, call and check in.
 
NoBShere said:
Thanks for posting this question. I use flight following but, due to the very, very rare ****y controller I did wonder if I was annoying them. I will never forget a trip over the California Central Valley and the ATC guy acted like someone ****ed in his cheerios to all GA he was talking to. Yes it was a busy day, non-stop on the freq but, I didn't hear anyone say anything in a manner that I hadn't heard before, confusing or verbose. With that being said, don't know what his day was like prior to my crossing his screen. Full disclosure, I never thought twice about FF because I pay taxes, yadda yadda yadda, maybe I'm the jerk for that attitude but get the thought around balancing the fun of flying and the perceived work (i.e. radio work) when poking holes in the sky with friends.

Side note, does anyone else guess the post number where someone gets their panties in a bunch when they read the OP? I would have bet the Over on this one and lost.

Btw, sometimes it freaks me out a little when I call up ATC on hand off and they don't respond to me right way, I think there is something wrong with radio. I know it is just because they have to prioritize work load just like the rest of us. I suppose that may play into the "am i annoying them" thoughts. Just because they didn't verbally respond, they know what you're doing and what frequency you are on (at least on hand-offs) if they need to give you a heads up or get you the f out of the way. Also, I really don't mind when they kick me out towards LVK to make room for traffic at OAK, just saying.
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I wonder if that's the same guy who asked me if I had a clue where Livermore was, rather than give me a vector to avoid the ILS he needed. I really don't mind getting out of the way IF it's needed. But mind reading isn't appropriate to insist on. No, I wasn't headed to Livermore, and I wasn't near the Class D. Just crossing the extended centerline well east on my way to SCK.
 
MAKG1 said:
I wonder if that's the same guy who asked me if I had a clue where Livermore was, rather than give me a vector to avoid the ILS he needed. I really don't mind getting out of the way IF it's needed. But mind reading isn't appropriate to insist on. No, I wasn't headed to Livermore, and I wasn't near the Class D. Just crossing the extended centerline well east on my way to SCK.
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You sure you didn't "bait" the controller?
 
On a recent flight, I took off from Camarillo, headed east and tuned in to Pt. Mugu approach to request FF. There was so much bleepin' radio traffic going on I couldn't squeak a word in edgewise...so why try? I kept a really good scan going, waited five minutes and called SoCal approach, in the next sector of airspace on my route. Their workload at the time was far lower...which in turn made MY workload far lower to pick up FF.
 
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