Repossession

[Erik Muldrow]

Hello all,
My buddy’s been in the repo business for a while and I’m about to start working for him as a driver. They’ll haul anything from motorcycles to semi-trucks, and are thinking about getting into aircraft. My question is, as a Private pilot (Airplanes/Rotorcraft) would I be able to fly for him or would I need my Commercial (I’m currently working towards that now anyway). I’d be a normal employee driving trucks the majority of the time, but if they needed a light single-engine airplane or rotorcraft ferried, I’d jump in to help out. I’d be getting paid for the repossession and not the flight time, so would that make it incidental to the business? Also, if anyone has any experience related to aircraft repossession (not related to what you saw on the Discovery Channel) feel free to PM me or chime in on here! Thanks

 

[ChemGuy]

Commercial required.
You are being paid to fly.

Also as a wet commercial ticket his insurance might want more time or time in type than you have.

 

[Fiveslide]

I don't see much point in relocating repossessed aircraft unless it is on a private strip or property, and that's probably relatively rare. Is there really going to be that many aircraft that can't be tugged to a different hangar or tie down, now being paid for by the bank. Sell it where it is.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just curious. What part of ferrying an aircraft and being paid for it sounds "only incidental"?

 

[geezer]

Fiveslide said:
I don't see much point in relocating repossessed aircraft unless it is on a private strip or property, and that's probably relatively rare. Is there really going to be that many aircraft that can't be tugged to a different hangar or tie down, now being paid for by the bank. Sell it where it is.


That is how all the repossessions at our airport worked, and the new owner flat bed hauled them away after buying them.

You need the commercial.

You need to see if his insurance includes airplanes. As noted above, do you have enough hours in your log book, and do they require hurs in type? Many insurance policies require at least an hour of dual in make and type before you are covered.

Remember, the plane you are repossessing may be in need of expensive repairs, and not safe to fly. That is often the reason people quit paying for airplanes. two on our airport died like that, and were completely un airworthy, repossessed by flat bed truck.

You would be wise to have an A&P read the logs before flying any plane that is strange to you. Even then, the equipment failure may have ended the use, with out actually being in a mechanics shop, thus no note of deficiency.

Unlike in the videos, the danger is that the plane is not safe to fly.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

Just curious. What part of ferrying an aircraft and being paid for it sounds "only incidental"?

Since I'd be payed commission on the repossession and not for flight time. So I'd be paid regardless of whether or not I tugged it to a separate hangar or flew it to another airport, the flying would be incidental to the repossession. I'm not required to get my CDL to drive the truck, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation for the aircraft.

I don't see much point in relocating repossessed aircraft unless it is on a private strip or property, and that's probably relatively rare. Is there really going to be that many aircraft that can't be tugged to a different hangar or tie down, now being paid for by the bank. Sell it where it is.

I would think some banks would care where the plane is located, and there aren't always available hangars at airports, but I see your point. I know literally nothing about this business, which is why I'm reaching out to get some info.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

You need the commercial.

You need to see if his insurance includes airplanes. As noted above, do you have enough hours in your log book, and do they require hurs in type? Many insurance policies require at least an hour of dual in make and type before you are covered.

Remember, the plane you are repossessing may be in need of expensive repairs, and not safe to fly. That is often the reason people quit paying for airplanes. two on our airport died like that, and were completely un airworthy, repossessed by flat bed truck.

You would be wise to have an A&P read the logs before flying any plane that is strange to you. Even then, the equipment failure may have ended the use, with out actually being in a mechanics shop, thus no note of deficiency.

Unlike in the videos, the danger is that the plane is not safe to fly.

Understood. I've never actually seen the show, so I'm not really coming at this with any romanticized expectations. I certainly wouldn't fly any airplane that wasn't checked out by an A&P, which I've gathered is standard for this kind of operation. Sounds like everyone agrees I'd need I'd need my Commercial, which I should have in the next month or so. I was just curious whether it was necessary, my local State Troopers and DEA office told me they only require a PPL, so I thought it was a possibility.

 

[James331]

So you’re going to be working for a guy repossessing aircraft who can’t answer that question for you? I see some...interesting times in your future.

Man, jumping into a random aircraft that came from a person who likely knew it was about to be taken from him and might be kinda sour about it too, with unknown mx, just read on here how many APs miss something on a prebuy where they even have waaaay more time and resources than you will. I got a decent amount of hours and experience, enough to know the answer to your question (yes CPL) and you’d have to pay me at least 200k for that job, high risk to skin tin and ticket.

Since I'd be payed commission on the repossession and not for flight time. So I'd be paid regardless of whether or not I tugged it to a separate hangar or flew it to another airport, the flying would be incidental to the repossession. I'm not required to get my CDL to drive the truck, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation for the aircraft.

So you flying the plane is incidental to being able to take a job that literally is “fly the plane from A to B”?

And what does the donut squad and dea guys have to do with aviation regulations? I mean why not ask the local dive master about how to fly a ILS?

I think you might be a wee bit over your head here.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

So you’re going to be working for a guy repossessing aircraft who can’t answer that question for you? I see some...interesting times in your future.


So you flying the plane is incidental to being able to take a job that literally is “fly the plane from A to B”?

And what does the donut squad and dea guys have to do with aviation regulations? I mean why not ask the local dive master about how to fly a ILS?

I think you might be a wee bit over your head here.

I'm not pretending I know what I'm doing. It is not my business, I've never worked repo or any flying gigs. There is no doubt I am "over my head". That's why I asked the question..

My buddy mentioned he's thinking about repoing planes in the future. He hasn't made any indication of when that may be or if he's ever going to actually do it. Obviously I didn't ask him about the details of what that would entail, since he doesn't currently repo planes/hasn't researched what it would take to set his business up to do it and therefore wouldn't know the answer to my question.

The job is the take legal possession of the plane. Not to fly it. I was just wondering that if flying it was required, would I be able to with a PPL.

The DEA and Troopers comment was completely relevant... the job was for a pilot position. They do not require a Commercial certificate to fly their airplanes/helicopters.

 

[geezer]

Unfortunately, the DEA and Troopers are GOVERNMENT,and think they will get a pass on such violations, and probably right. A friend worked as a Customs Agent, badge, shield, and gun, and flew without even a PPL, and got caught. Slap on the wrist, no paperwork filed, just "come in here with a PPL before you fly your plane again, or we will do the paperwork".The guy who taught him to fly was not even an instructor, just taught him for the fun of flying together.

What I thought funny, he had over a hundred hours of unlogged flight time, which he could never log, and he planned to go ahead and get the commercial, since he now was a licensed pilot. He had been flying for about 2 years before being caught in a ramp check.

You are not GOVERNMENT,do not have that protection, and will lose your certificate if you get caught.

Don'tes up your future career for a trivial amount of pay. Stick with repossessing cars and trucks.

 

[James331]

I'm not pretending I know what I'm doing. It is not my business, I've never worked repo or any flying gigs. There is no doubt I am "over my head". That's why I asked the question..

My buddy mentioned he's thinking about repoing planes in the future. He hasn't made any indication of when that may be or if he's ever going to actually do it. Obviously I didn't ask him about the details of what that would entail, since he doesn't currently repo planes/hasn't researched what it would take to set his business up to do it and therefore wouldn't know the answer to my question.

The job is the take legal possession of the plane. Not to fly it. I was just wondering that if flying it was required, would I be able to with a PPL.

The DEA and Troopers comment was completely relevant... the job was for a pilot position. They do not require a Commercial certificate to fly their airplanes/helicopters.

It’s not that you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s that NO ONE knows what they are doing, your first professional pilot job will be at a company where literally no one knows that they are doing...what’s the worse that could happen

Also per it not being “your business” if you have a bad outcome or do something illegal the FAA won’t care who’s name is on the business card, you are PIC. And let’s look at that for a second, this is straight part 91, mr repo doesn’t have a FAA certificate to risk, if you get the FAA all over you it’s basically going to fall completely on your head, I can see it now “Gee Mr federal aviation admiralty I had no idea, Erik said he was a commercial pilot and could do it, said he also already talked to super important people in government and they said it was cool, I just drive a tow truck, I’ll fire him right away”.


And as was mentioned, unless you work for the government or are ruling class, what the DEA, CIA, Clintons, Cuomos, etc can get away with has zero to do with what 99.99% of Americans can “legally” do.

Personally I’d go work under someone with a bunch of airplane repo experience before I tried to figure it out as you go, I’d also be suspect of the repo companies attitude if instead of hiring on someone with experience in this new area they want to expand into, they just blindly start off in that direction, not sure if it’s reckelsss or being cheap, I’d suspect both.

I’d you go forward, god speed and be sure to bring a go pro and upload it.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

Personally I’d go work under someone with a bunch of airplane repo experience before I tried to figure it out as you go, I’d also be suspect of the repo companies attitude if instead of hiring on someone with experience in this new area they want to expand into, they just blindly start off in that direction, not sure if it’s reckelsss or being cheap, I’d suspect both.

It just came up in a conversation and I was wondering if it would be possible with a PPL. Nothing official, just a few friends talking. He didn't try to hire me on as a pilot or anything.

 

[Matthew]

I don't know how any of it works, but isn't getting hold of the logs nearly as important as the airplane itself?

 

[Fiveslide]

It’s not that you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s that NO ONE knows what they are doing, your first professional pilot job will be at a company where literally no one knows that they are doing...what’s the worse that could happen

I had a girlfriend that did a short stint at a repo business as the secretary. I can totally believe the owner thinking, "hey, we got a little money in the bank, let's find the cheapest way possible to get into repossessing <insert brilliant idea here>"

She was let go before too long, because they found out they could not afford a secretary.

She did get a nearly free Honda Accord that looked like it was releasing a black chemtrail. The lender, probably one of those subprime places or maybe a title loan deal, decided not to waste any more time or money on the smoking car and she just had to pay the repo costs.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

I don't know how any of it works, but isn't getting hold of the logs nearly as important as the airplane itself?

Definitely. From what I’ve read, sometimes the logs are unavailable and you just have to get an A&P to check it out to determine if it’s airworthy.

 

[Matthew]

Definitely. From what I’ve read, sometimes the logs are unavailable and you just have to get an A&P to check it out to determine if it’s airworthy.

That's one part of getting it into the air. But without the logs, how much of the a/c value is lost?

 

[Erik Muldrow]

That's one part of getting it into the air. But without the logs, how much of the a/c value is lost?

Good question. No idea, I’d assume a significant amount.

 

[aftCG]

Unfortunately, the DEA and Troopers are GOVERNMENT,and think they will get a pass on such violations, and probably right. A friend worked as a Customs Agent, badge, shield, and gun, and flew without even a PPL, and got caught. Slap on the wrist, no paperwork filed, just "come in here with a PPL before you fly your plane again, or we will do the paperwork".The guy who taught him to fly was not even an instructor, just taught him for the fun of flying together.

What I thought funny, he had over a hundred hours of unlogged flight time, which he could never log, and he planned to go ahead and get the commercial, since he now was a licensed pilot. He had been flying for about 2 years before being caught in a ramp check.

You are not GOVERNMENT,do not have that protection, and will lose your certificate if you get caught.

Don'tes up your future career for a trivial amount of pay. Stick with repossessing cars and trucks.

Some animals are just more equal than others

 

[James331]

Good question. No idea, I’d assume a significant amount.

And how do you know airworthiness, annual, pitot static, ADs, ELT, etc etc


Number I’ve heard was 25-30% of the aircrafts value.

Some animals are just more equal than others

Bigger the government, smaller the citizen.

 

[Zeldman]

My buddy’s been in the repo business for a while and I’m about to start working for him as a driver.

Don't go to the wrong house and ask about a car. It can be really embarrassing.... (it wasn't me but I know someone that did that)

Hope your buddy uses roll backs and not the repo stingers that are remote controlled by the driver.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Since I'd be payed commission on the repossession and not for flight time. So I'd be paid regardless of whether or not I tugged it to a separate hangar or flew it to another airport, the flying would be incidental to the repossession. I'm not required to get my CDL to drive the truck, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation for the aircraft.
.

Kind of like, my job is sightseeing. I could do it in a car. The airplane is just incidental?

The FAA is very jealous of protecting commercial pilots and operators who have paid the bucks and taken the extra steps to meet more stringent requirements. They tend to interpret these rules very tightly. Read a few of the Chief Counsel opinions on the subject to get a taste of the direction of the FAA's thinking on the subject.

Heck, all you need is 250 hours to take what most consider the easiest FAA check ride. Just go for it. You'll likely need far more than that to get insured for flying airplanes of unknown airworthiness.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

Heck, all you need is 250 hours to take what most consider the easiest FAA check ride. Just go for it. You'll likely need far more than that to get insured for flying airplanes of unknown airworthiness.

I'm definitely getting my Commercial, I only need about 10 more hours of xc and some night time. I was just curious if it was possible to get the job done with a PPL.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm definitely getting my Commercial, I only need about 10 more hours of xc and some night time. I was just curious if it was possible to get the job done with a PPL.

Best educated guess. No, not without running afoul of the regs.

 

[Bell206]

But without the logs, how much of the a/c value is lost?

Depends on the type/model of aircraft and what it will be used for. The main issue is the cost of rebuilding those aircraft records in order to make it airworthy.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Buddy of mine from college did this for a while... They went to reprocess a Ford Bronco from a place in San Bernadino, CA... he quit shortly there after.... something about getting shot at was not sitting right with him..

 

[JScarry]

No commercial needed, but do you really want to be flying an airplane that the owner doesn’t have enough money to make payments on? If they can’t make the payments, is it even in annual? Transponder checked? Did they stop flying it because the engine mysteriously stopped on the last flight and they glided to the runway? Have you flown that type before? Are there weird squawks—like it’s out of trim so you need lots more rudder on takeoff, or the primer doesn’t work, so you have to use the throttle to start it? The heater leaks CO so don’t turn it on. The brakes don’t work, so make sure that you only land on long runways. The last time it was flown was 6 years ago but I’m sure it just needs a new battery or a charge and it’s good to go.

§91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

 

[James331]

No commercial needed, but do you really want to be flying an airplane that the owner doesn’t have enough money to make payments on? If they can’t make the payments, is it even in annual? Transponder checked? Did they stop flying it because the engine mysteriously stopped on the last flight and they glided to the runway? Have you flown that type before? Are there weird squawks—like it’s out of trim so you need lots more rudder on takeoff, or the primer doesn’t work, so you have to use the throttle to start it? The heater leaks CO so don’t turn it on. The brakes don’t work, so make sure that you only land on long runways. The last time it was flown was 6 years ago but I’m sure it just needs a new battery or a charge and it’s good to go.

§91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

Care to explain how a CPL is not needed?

 

[Salty]

Care to explain how a CPL is not needed?

I could have driven the passengers in a bus, so flying that 737 is just incidental to the business.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Since I'd be payed commission on the repossession and not for flight time. So I'd be paid regardless of whether or not I tugged it to a separate hangar or flew it to another airport, the flying would be incidental to the repossession.

That's a bit of a stretch. If the repossession requires moving the airplane to a different airport, you cannot reasonably do the job without flying the airplane. Sure, you could pull the wings off, put it in a trailer, drive to the other airport, and put it back together, in theory. But it would take an unreasonably long time to do that instead of flying the airplane.

The FAA will apply the "duck test". If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And this one looks and quacks like something you're being paid for that requires you to fly. Get the commercial. There is no leniency on this stuff with the FAA.

I'm not required to get my CDL to drive the truck, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation for the aircraft.

Trucks operate under completely different regulations. If the GVWR of the truck is 26,000 pounds or less (and if it has a trailer, the trailer is 10,000 pounds or less), then it's perfectly legal to get paid to drive it. OTOH, even if you're volunteering (ie, not getting paid to drive it) and it's over 26,000 pounds, you need your CDL, with the exception of privately owned motor homes. It doesn't work anything like aviation does.

Sounds like everyone agrees I'd need I'd need my Commercial, which I should have in the next month or so. I was just curious whether it was necessary, my local State Troopers and DEA office told me they only require a PPL, so I thought it was a possibility.

You don't need a pilot certificate at all to operate government aircraft. 14 CFR 61.3 is the reg that requires you to have a pilot certificate:

§61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

(1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization—

(i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with §61.19;

Note that it says "civil aircraft". 14 CFR 1.1 defines the term as:

Civil aircraft means aircraft other than public aircraft.

And finally, later on in 14 CFR 1.1 it defines a public aircraft... I'll post the full definition in this quote, but essentially any federal, state, or local aircraft owned and operated by the government:

Public aircraft means any of the following aircraft when not being used for a commercial purpose or to carry an individual other than a crewmember or qualified non-crewmenber:

(1) An aircraft used only for the United States Government; an aircraft owned by the Government and operated by any person for purposes related to crew training, equipment development, or demonstration; an aircraft owned and operated by the government of a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States or a political subdivision of one of these governments; or an aircraft exclusively leased for at least 90 continuous days by the government of a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States or a political subdivision of one of these governments.

(i) For the sole purpose of determining public aircraft status, commercial purposes means the transportation of persons or property for compensation or hire, but does not include the operation of an aircraft by the armed forces for reimbursement when that reimbursement is required by any Federal statute, regulation, or directive, in effect on November 1, 1999, or by one government on behalf of another government under a cost reimbursement agreement if the government on whose behalf the operation is conducted certifies to the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the operation is necessary to respond to a significant and imminent threat to life or property (including natural resources) and that no service by a private operator is reasonably available to meet the threat.

(ii) For the sole purpose of determining public aircraft status, governmental function means an activity undertaken by a government, such as national defense, intelligence missions, firefighting, search and rescue, law enforcement (including transport of prisoners, detainees, and illegal aliens), aeronautical research, or biological or geological resource management.

(iii) For the sole purpose of determining public aircraft status, qualified non-crewmember means an individual, other than a member of the crew, aboard an aircraft operated by the armed forces or an intelligence agency of the United States Government, or whose presence is required to perform, or is associated with the performance of, a governmental function.

(2) An aircraft owned or operated by the armed forces or chartered to provide transportation to the armed forces if—

(i) The aircraft is operated in accordance with title 10 of the United States Code;

(ii) The aircraft is operated in the performance of a governmental function under title 14, 31, 32, or 50 of the United States Code and the aircraft is not used for commercial purposes; or

(iii) The aircraft is chartered to provide transportation to the armed forces and the Secretary of Defense (or the Secretary of the department in which the Coast Guard is operating) designates the operation of the aircraft as being required in the national interest.

(3) An aircraft owned or operated by the National Guard of a State, the District of Columbia, or any territory or possession of the United States, and that meets the criteria of paragraph (2) of this definition, qualifies as a public aircraft only to the extent that it is operated under the direct control of the Department of Defense.

So yeah... In theory, you could walk in off the street and get a job flying a government airplane without even having a pilot certificate at all. In reality, various governmental organizations (and their insurance carriers) will have different requirements for pilot certificates.

I don't know how any of it works, but isn't getting hold of the logs nearly as important as the airplane itself?

Yes.

That's one part of getting it into the air. But without the logs, how much of the a/c value is lost?

The number I've heard is $30K or half the value of the aircraft, whichever is greater.

 

[MauleSkinner]

So you really think somebody’s gonna spend the time and money to do an annual inspection, transponder check, verify and/or complete all ADs from the beginning of time just so you can legally fly it for a repo?

Or are you anticipating a ferry permit? (Still requires the AD part, from what I understand.)

 

[James331]

So you really think somebody’s gonna spend the time and money to do an annual inspection, transponder check, verify and/or complete all ADs from the beginning of time just so you can legally fly it for a repo?

Or are you anticipating a ferry permit? (Still requires the AD part, from what I understand.)

How about the angry factor?

People tear their homes apart before foreclosure, I went to buy a AC unit from a guy, when I showed up the guy was basically gutting his/the banks house.

Not sure why a plane might not have the same fate.

 

[Bell206]

(Still requires the AD part, from what I understand.)

Correct. And if there is an AD due that does not state a special flight permit as an option then in most cases the AD must be complied prior to the issuance of a Special Flight Permit.

 

[Fracpilot]

Bottom line is you appear to be in way over your head and experience level. We have a lot of people on here that have decades of experience, thousands of hours, and do this professionally.

YOU seeked the advice and they’ve all given the right advice by telling you that you need a CPL for this job. Please take that advice that YOU seeked. There’s no defense for what your saying. You need a CPL to do this job. Take the advice or be alone in litigation island. All of this advice to you will come out in the discovery phase of litigation should something happen.

Based on what you’re saying, If you were only getting paid to take possession of the airplane then your responsibilities would stop there. Your buddy would then need to hire someone to MOVE the airplane. Repossession and moving are two different events.

Once you repossess the airplane, it now a becomes property of your buddy on behalf of the banks. He and the bank now become the operator. So when you, the PPL, MOVE the airplane that was repossessed and now being operated by the same individual that compensated you for the repossession to move the airplane, now it’s all one event in the eyes of compensation. These are 2 events and being compensated as one.

I personally don’t see the FAA splitting those into to two separate events because the appearance is that you were now compensated to repossess the airplane and now move it for the same compensation.

Yes, you can get paid to REPOSSESS the airplane. Your buddy would then need to hire a commercial pilot to MOVE the airplane.

I have done a few repossessions of Gulfstreams. The bank required me to have all of the qualifications including an ATP and time in type as well as currencies. I understand that this is probably a single engine aircraft and you won’t have the same requirements to repossess a Gulfstream.

I highly doubt the bank has zero requirements for the aircraft repossessions. The bank owns the airplane and is hiring a third party for the repossession. Legally, the bank has to stipulate the requirements of the third party repossession company, otherwise the bank can be open to liability for any outcome of a bad repossession such as crashing into property and killing someone in said property.

Your buddy may not be reading the fine print or telling you all of the facts. His job is to get paid on the repossession. It benefits him to hire you at a cheaper price to help his bottom line. In return you get the flight time. Unfortunately you’re flying a commercial operation and also “whoring out” the commercial pilot market by working for free or a cheaper rate than a qualified commercial pilot.

Your ticket, your future, your choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[weilke]

Most aircraft repossessions, TV antics nonwithstanding, are a civil affair conducted between professionals. A pilot rated in the plane, a rep of the bank and a mechanic show up with the paperwork and have the airport manager unlock the hangar for them. This is not the 'buy here pay here' car sales business .

 

[Sac Arrow]

Unfortunately, the DEA and Troopers are GOVERNMENT,and think they will get a pass on such violations, and probably right. A friend worked as a Customs Agent, badge, shield, and gun, and flew without even a PPL, and got caught. Slap on the wrist, no paperwork filed, just "come in here with a PPL before you fly your plane again, or we will do the paperwork".The guy who taught him to fly was not even an instructor, just taught him for the fun of flying together.

In that instance though, I don't know about state, but DEA and federal troopers are flying public use aircraft not under the jurisdiction of the FAA, same as the military so no FAA certificate at all would be required. How qualifications and proficiency requirements work I don't know. My guess is that barring some federal or military certification, those agencies would probably require current commercial certificates. I'm sure someone here knows how that works better than I do.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I'm not pretending I know what I'm doing. ... The job is the take legal possession of the plane. Not to fly it. I was just wondering that if flying it was required, would I be able to with a PPL.

Just get you commercial ticket; it's the easiest one of all to get, and is sounds cool at parties ... "I'm a commercial pilot".

 

[geezer]

Sac Arrow said:
In that instance though, I don't know about state, but DEA and federal troopers are flying public use aircraft not under the jurisdiction of the FAA, same as the military so no FAA certificate at all would be required.

The plane he was flying was his personal Luscombe. Not related in any way with his employment. The FAA guys that caught him did not notify the Customs dept. that the caught him. All just slid under the carpet.

 

[ateamer]

In that instance though, I don't know about state, but DEA and federal troopers are flying public use aircraft not under the jurisdiction of the FAA, same as the military so no FAA certificate at all would be required. How qualifications and proficiency requirements work I don't know. My guess is that barring some federal or military certification, those agencies would probably require current commercial certificates. I'm sure someone here knows how that works better than I do.

While the FARs allow public use aviation to be done without a pilot certificate, virtually every agency with aircraft requires their pilots to be certificated, usually commercial and instrument rated. There were a few hicktown departments using uncertified “pilots”, but mishaps and civil liability ended that.

 

[Clip4]

So you really want to climb into an airplane owned by a dead beat with zero knowledge of the planes inspection or maintenance status?

 

[Sac Arrow]

While the FARs allow public use aviation to be done without a pilot certificate, virtually every agency with aircraft requires their pilots to be certificated, usually commercial and instrument rated. There were a few hicktown departments using uncertified “pilots”, but mishaps and civil liability ended that.

There is a guy on the Purple Board flying a Cub in Alaska for Fish & Game. He states that technically he doesn’t need a cert for what he does but the agency still requires a valid commercial and 2nd class medical for the job. Which he has.