Renting a friend's plane? Questions...

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Tflhndn

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Tflhndn
I have a friend who no longer fly his plane much (which is why he is selling it). It is a navion. I am about to take my private pilot check ride. We have discussed my using his plane to get my complex and hp endorsement one I pass my check ride. I would be paying my own gas.

I already have non-owners insurance but I am not sure if that is enough for me to use his plane. Would I also have to be on his insurance, or does my insurance cover that gap?

Would it change anything if I pay something to him for the hours I fly on the plane?

I think that covers everything, but I have already learned not all is as it appears when dealing with the FAA.
 
Umm. Nobody said anything about switching planes before the check ride, but thanks for posting.
 
You have to ask your agent and his insurer these specific questions. There aren't any universal rules.
 
Am I correct I thinking that this is an insurance issue and not a regulatory (FAA) issue? I.e. It is perfectly legal for me to "rent" an aircraft from a friend without incurring any special requirements from his regarding mx on the plane?
 
Yes this is an insurance thing. But I would guess if you use the term "rent" then you might have FFA concerns, as far as does the plane have a 100hr inspection and whatever else comes with rental aircraft. But that would be on him not you. So..."borrow" the plane, pay for fuel, and talk with the insurance and you should be good to go.
 
simtech said:
Yes this is an insurance thing. But I would guess if you use the term "rent" then you might have FFA concerns, as far as does the plane have a 100hr inspection and whatever else comes with rental aircraft. But that would be on him not you. So..."borrow" the plane, pay for fuel, and talk with the insurance and you should be good to go.
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I believe the 100 hr is only required for a rental when it is used for training or carrying pax for hire - 91.409.
 
If you rent an airplane from a friend he would have to get a commercial insurance, get the 100hr inspection done, etc etc..

borrow the airplane, buy him dinner and pay for your gas.

Edit:

I just saw youre in greensboro? I fly out of Sanford. KTTA, 15nm south of KRDU
 
Plane is only for hire and needs a 100hr if the plane and flight crew come from the same place, just renting without a CFI from the same place does not = 100hr


To the OPs question, I'd call his insurance company, he might even have a open pilot policy which you may be able to get on.

Also talk to your renters insurance.

Without reading both policies no one is really going to be able to give you a solid answer IMO.
 
Tflhndn said:
Am I correct I thinking that this is an insurance issue and not a regulatory (FAA) issue? I.e. It is perfectly legal for me to "rent" an aircraft from a friend without incurring any special requirements from his regarding mx on the plane?
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Since you are just about to take your check ride and don't have a large knowledge base, all of the above answers regarding renting, inspections, etc. are just confusing.

Just ignore them. You don't rent a friend's aircraft, you borrow it. You'll find out as you get experience that certain terms have legal meanings which just create soup.
 
I recently called my insurance to find out who could fly my plane. I have a 182 which is a HP. I was told ANY PP with current medical and HP endorsement was covered.

The question would be to HIS insurance if you could be PIC while receiving dual instruction for your HP endorsement and be covered.
 
Shawn said:
I recently called my insurance to find out who could fly my plane. I have a 182 which is a HP. I was told ANY PP with current medical and HP endorsement was covered.

The question would be to HIS insurance if you could be PIC while receiving dual instruction for your HP endorsement and be covered.
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This.

And each policy is different with regards to who may fly the plane with the permission of the owner of the aircraft. For example, on my policy any private pilot with 300hrs+, and 5hrs in type, may take the plane on their own with my permission.
 
You can rent your friend's aircraft and he will not be required to do 100 hour inspections. Your renting his aircraft is not a commercial activity.
I would have you friend add you to his policies as a named pilot, with your hours, the premium will be higher, you pay the difference between what it was with just him, and what the premium will be with you added.
You buy your own gas, don't ***** if he flys on some of it, and It would be nice if you chipped in a little on the maintenance fund.
 
Maciej said:
This.

And each policy is different with regards to who may fly the plane with the permission of the owner of the aircraft. For example, on my policy any private pilot with 300hrs+, and 5hrs in type, may take the plane on their own with my permission.
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Basic aircraft insurance policies are pretty much a rubber stamp. with the numbers left blank.
 
Tflhndn said:
I have a friend who no longer fly his plane much (which is why he is selling it). It is a navion. I am about to take my private pilot check ride. We have discussed my using his plane to get my complex and hp endorsement one I pass my check ride. I would be paying my own gas.

I already have non-owners insurance but I am not sure if that is enough for me to use his plane. Would I also have to be on his insurance, or does my insurance cover that gap?

Would it change anything if I pay something to him for the hours I fly on the plane?

I think that covers everything, but I have already learned not all is as it appears when dealing with the FAA.
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Does the value of your non-owners policy cover the value of your friends aircraft?

Your non-owners policy should cover you as long as his airplane isn't worth more than your policy covers.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Does the value of your non-owners policy cover the value of your friends aircraft?

Your non-owners policy should cover you as long as his airplane isn't worth more than your policy covers.
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This is what I would expect. His insurance may refuse to pay but you have your own for that purpose. If you have enough hull to cover it then should not be an issue.

Having said that if I owned the plane I would want to know my insurance was going to cover me regardless of what insurance you have.
 
Check with his insurance carrier to make sure you meet the open pilot clause. If no money passes hands ,and you are doing him a favor,there shouldn't be a problem.
 
frfly172 said:
Check with his insurance carrier to make sure you meet the open pilot clause. If no money passes hands ,and you are doing him a favor,there shouldn't be a problem.
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money passing hands has no bearing in this subject, simple renting is not a commercial activity, he can pay for everything.
 
Always thought the Navion was a neat plane. As stated you borrow the plane, pay for fuel, help with maintenance, have him put you on his policy and pay the difference in premiums.

And have fun.
 
DFH65 said:
This is what I would expect. His insurance may refuse to pay but you have your own for that purpose. If you have enough hull to cover it then should not be an issue.

Having said that if I owned the plane I would want to know my insurance was going to cover me regardless of what insurance you have.
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The owner's insurance covers the owner. Renter's insurance covers the renter.

If you arent named on the owner's policy and don't meet their open pilot, the owner will not be protected if you have an accident with his airplane.
 
Was reading policy couple days ago on one of my planes. Stated pilot must have 1000 hrs. 250 retract, ifr current and 25 in type. Pretty sure they are saying they really don't want me to let anyone fly it.
 
Theboys said:
Was reading policy couple days ago on one of my planes. Stated pilot must have 1000 hrs. 250 retract, ifr current and 25 in type. Pretty sure they are saying they really don't want me to let anyone fly it.
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Nahh, what they're telling you is that they'll gladly take some more of your money to add a named pilot to your policy.
 
Almost all policies are different. Call the agent.

Off the top of my head, mine is 500 hrs. minimum and 50 hours in type if I remember correctly.

They don't want just anyone jumping in my ground loop queen.
 
Even my Skyhawk insurance requires 300 total and 10 in type for the open pilot clause.
 
Same same here...... 300 hours and 10 in airframe or you are flying uninsured.

Best thing to do is call his carrier and see if they can add you. Then pay whatever the offset is. I'd say your pal would welcome this as a flying plane tends to have a better selling price than a ramp rat does.
 
Tflhndn said:
I already have non-owners insurance but I am not sure if that is enough for me to use his plane. Would I also have to be on his insurance, or does my insurance cover that gap?
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From your perspective, all you need is your own insurance (as long as it meets your needs for liability and hull coverage). Beyond that, it's all a matter of what the owner wants in the way of hull/liability coverage to meet the owner's exposure.

From the owner's perspective, that would mean the owner's policy would have to be in force while you are flying the plane. That could be achieved by you meeting the Open Pilot Waiver criteria, or by adding you to the policy as an additional pilot. Also, the owner's insurance would have to allow the owner to rent the plane to others, which some allow (albeit usually with strict limits on how often and to whom).

Would it change anything if I pay something to him for the hours I fly on the plane?
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It might or might not void the owner's coverage against the owner's exposure for hull and liability loss -- that's something the owner would have to determine from the owner's policy. But your non-owned policy should be in force regardless of whether you borrow or rent a plane you don't own.

I think that covers everything, but I have already learned not all is as it appears when dealing with the FAA.
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The FAA has no rules on renting out planes as long as the agency renting out the plane is not providing flight training along with the plane. So, this is entirely an insurance issue, not an FAA issue, and there's no "dealing with the FAA" on this matter.
 
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