Renters Insurance?

ebykowsky said:
How much will the FBO's 5mil smooth liability help? I'm not named and the policy is through USAIG. I figure the insurance company could come after us, but how likely would that be? And assuming no gross negligence, would they get anywhere at all? How do you define gross negligence?
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The FBO's insurance is for the FBO, not for you. Definitely not for you. Let me tell you how I know. When I was training for my PP, I was told I did not need renters insurance by the FBO, because they told me I was covered under their insurance. That was a lie, and I was grossly naive in believing them. Shortly after I passed my checkride several years ago, I was taxiing an airplane and I hit a bush with my left wingtip because the airplane stopped turning. I swore up and down that there was something wrong with that airplane. Didn't matter. The owner came up with a list of damage I caused, and it was ridiculous. So long story short, their insurance company paid, then the insurance company came after me. They didn't care what I had to say, they just wanted the money. I hired a lawyer who specialized in aviation matters. This dragged on for months. Finally my lawyer told me that even if I win a lawsuit (which, according to the renters' agreement, the FBO could claim anything, so basically I had little chance of winning because it was their word against mine), so even if I won the lawsuit, the legal bills would cost more than the settlement. And if I lost the lawsuit, the legal bills on top of the payment would be more than double. So really long story short: a scratched wingtip cost me $15,000, about $10,000 for the alleged "damage" and $5000 or so to my lawyer. I hope that money-grubbing lying sack of **** owner drops dead. Oh, the best part, after I bought that piece of **** airplane for my $15,000, the owner donated it to a charity for the tax deduction. I just about puked. I left that airport. And I have insurance now.
 
Now that we've established that golf isn't nearly as murderous to the minivan driving soccer moms as general aviation apparently is, another question -
- when I rent, FBO's insurance is technically paid for by me. Say I rent a certain Arrow, which cost about 6000/year to insure (commercial use). Plane flies oh.. 600hrs a year. I rent the airplane for 150 hrs (yeah, should own instead, but this is hypothetical). Hence, I just paid $1500 towards the premium of the insurance that will not protect me, according to what's being said.
So here's the question - can you ask for a $10/hour discount and get a non-commercial use insurance for that airplane instead with you and the FBO named insured and you the sole authorized pilot at what, $700-800 a year?

I know, I know :mad2:
 
Most importantly, who should I talk to in order to make sure our A's are properly C'd? It is all just very hazy to me still, and while PoA banter is all fine and well, it doesn't get me very far. Would AOPA Legal help, or are they just for minor FAR infractions and the like?
 
ebykowsky said:
Most importantly, who should I talk to in order to make sure our A's are properly C'd? It is all just very hazy to me still, and while PoA banter is all fine and well, it doesn't get me very far. Would AOPA Legal help, or are they just for minor FAR infractions and the like?
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Start by reading your club policies. They aren't that hard to understand. Then ask questions when you rent from an FBO. I would get something to cover you, Neil you turn 18, anyway. There are many pilots who won't carry passengers outside their immediate family, for this very reason.
 
John221us said:
Start by reading your club policies. They aren't that hard to understand. Then ask questions when you rent from an FBO. I would get something to cover you, Neil you turn 18, anyway. There are many pilots who won't carry passengers outside their immediate family, for this very reason.
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OK thanks, I think the 18 thing may even not be good enough though since I'll still be a college age dependent with the official address of residence of my parents' house.
 
ebykowsky said:
How much will the FBO's 5mil smooth liability help? I'm not named
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Then it doesn't help you at all.

and the policy is through USAIG. I figure the insurance company could come after us, but how likely would that be? And assuming no gross negligence, would they get anywhere at all? How do you define gross negligence?
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Try here:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Gross+negligence

Perhaps the most important thing your policy provides is a legal defense. If a third party is injured, and you get sued, even if you were not negligent, it may cost tens of thousands of dollars to prove that in court, and your insurer will cover that, providing the best defense attorneys they know for your defense. That alone may be worth the price of the policy.
 
ebykowsky said:
So how much coverage would you guys get?

Edit: yes I realize that's a very nebulous and case-by-case question, but go ahead and generalize as much as possible.
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I just signed a "pilot contract" yesterday with Angel Flight West.

This is the exact wording regarding insurance (and no, I don't have enough PIC time yet to fly as a command pilot but I do assist on missions):

6. Whether flying rented or owned aircraft, I have in force liability insurance applicable to the flight providing minimum coverage of $500,000 per occurrence and $100,000 per seat.​
 
ClimbnSink said:
How much money you got? Only people in the middle need renters insurance, higher and you own something, lower and well they can't get blood from a stone. Yes they can get a judgement against future earnings, if you ain't in med school they ain't going to bother trying. Decent chance you are covered in the club plane, much less chance you are covered in a fbo rental. Ask and read the policies.
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Sounds like illegal immigrant logic to me.

So you crash into my plane, destroy my wing and since you dont have any money, you what... just open the door and start running??

Better run far, if you crash into my plane and cant pay, you'll work it off, give me something of equal value, off or I'll take it out of your ass.

Here's the deal, if they have insurance that will cover you, good, if not spend a few hundred bucks, be a responsible person and buy a policy, ESPECIALLY AS A STUDENT PILOT WITH SUPER LOW HOURS :dunno:

The renters polices are also great as it will cover you even if you are flying some friends' aircraft.

At our school we require all pilots to buy a AOPA or avemco renter policy with hull coverage before they can take our plane solo, maybe it's our superior and honorable demographic of students/renters, they seem to "get it" and it isnt an issue. We also have any pilot or pax sign a VERY detailed waiver (modified form a skydiving waiver), just as a extra bit of possible protection.
 
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I used Starr for my first round of insurance, prices seemed good and coverage as well. Hopefully we all pay and never have to use it!!! Be safe everyone
 
For what its worth, I have never seen a waiver of subrogation clause located within an insurance policy. Usually, such protection of third parties is accomplished by identifying that third party as an additional insured. Where I see waivers of subrogation is in the contract between the named insured and the alleged tortfeasor. In other words, I would expect to see any waiver of subrogation in the rental agreement. OF course, anything is possible.
 
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