Remembering Correct X-Wind Taxi Technique

Clark1961 said:
Nope. The effective crosswind is forward quarter so the controls are held into the wind.

My question is why would a student pilot fight so hard against those who actually fly taildraggers????? The world wonders????????????
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My guess is that he is trying to get his various experts (the books and POA) to agree in a way that he can understand. That's what I tend to do.

What is commendable is that he is sticking with it until he does see the light.
 
Matthew said:
I don't think about it much anymore, it's pretty automatic. But, as a student, the "dive-away/climb-into" reminder seemed to work well enough, even though the books say neutral elevator with a headwind in a nose-gear.

edit:

I see the "Let the wind blow the stick" was posted just prior to my post. I hadn't heard it put that way before.
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It boils down to essentially the same thing... but I guess "wind blowing the stick" is a more useful concept for tailwheel taxiing, as it reminds you of the more-critical elevator position.
I went back and edited my post, to add the obvious: that if the wind is ahead of either wingtip, you don't want to let the wind blow your hand all the way over, maybe not at all (so as to not put an aileron down on the upwind side).
Maybe for all landing gear configs, "dive away/climb (or neutral turn) into" is actually a more suitable rule.
 
AuntPeggy said:
My guess is that he is trying to get his various experts (the books and POA) to agree in a way that he can understand. That's what I tend to do.

What is commendable is that he is sticking with it until he does see the light.
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My father used to say, "You can't fly a book."

I figured out what he meant after I started flying....
 
rottydaddy said:
It is this:
"Let the wind blow the stick". In other words, once you know "whence the wind" you pretend the wind is blowing against your hand, and thus moving the stick where it wants to be, for elevator and aileron position.
You can apply this to a yoke, as well... and it works, as a general rule.

Naturally, one does not want to show the underside of the upwind aileron to the wind, so in the case of a quartering headwind, you would not let the wind "blow" your hand all the way over to the downwind side; might even want to "turn into" the wind, as they say.
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Man, I am not wrapping my brain around this. I've read this half a dozen times and still can't visualize what you are saying.

Climb into, Dive away from works for me.
 
rottydaddy said:
... "Let the wind blow the stick". In other words, once you know "whence the wind" you pretend the wind is blowing against your hand, and thus moving the stick where it wants to be, for elevator and aileron position...
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I don't get it. So if I have a left quartering headwind, then the wind would blow the stick to the right and back, no? But I should have left aileron in this case.
-harry
 
dmccormack said:
Gee -- I could saved a TON of money on flight lessons, then... :rolleyes:
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Did you learn something during your flight lessons that contradicted the laws of physics?

Or was that merely an opportunity to "practice", to train your brain and muscles, to calibrate your senses, to let an experienced instructor teach you the application of the theory in a real world context?

Did the auto-pilot take flight lessons?
-harry
 
mantakos said:
Did you learn something during your flight lessons that contradicted the laws of physics?

Or was that merely an opportunity to "practice", to train your brain and muscles, to calibrate your senses, to let an experienced instructor teach you the application of the theory in a real world context?

Did the auto-pilot take flight lessons?
-harry
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Pshaw -- You know the point -- what's in books remains purely theoretical until the brain and body test, investigate, experiment, experience, and finally confirm or deny what was read.

The Wrights read every book on aeronautics then available and learned through experience that what was in the books was incomplete or just plain wrong.

However, don't cast this as a experience vs. book knowledge -- it's not. Aviators need both, but the OP has demonstrated that simply reading and extrapolating from a textbook is inadequate.
 
dmccormack said:
The Wrights read every book on aeronautics then available and learned through experience that what was in the books was incomplete or just plain wrong.
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Yes, that how it works before something is figgered out. I'm pretty sure that if they were born today, they'd have a lot more success by learning the now established theory and applying it.
... the OP has demonstrated that simply reading and extrapolating from a textbook is inadequate.
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What he demonstrated was an incorrect application of his incomplete textbook knowledge. His book was right, he was wrong.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
Yes, that how it works before something is figgered out. I'm pretty sure that if they were born today, they'd have a lot more success by learning the now established theory and applying it.
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So it's all settled? No more breakthroughs pending?

mantakos said:
What he demonstrated was an incorrect application of his incomplete textbook knowledge. His book was right, he was wrong.
-harry
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Nope -- look at the diagram he used and I posted from the Cessna POH. He took that small bit of content and without adequate context was unable to extrapolate beyond the limited explanation of the text.

Face it -- I can spend three hours explaining F=M*A or I can drop a 1lb weight on your hand from 1 inch and again from 10 feet.
 
dmccormack said:
So it's all settled? No more breakthroughs pending?
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I find it extremely unlikely that there are major breakthroughs pending that will revolutionize how we position the flight controls in response to wind.
Nope -- look at the diagram he used and I posted from the Cessna POH. He took that small bit of content and without adequate context was unable to extrapolate beyond the limited explanation of the text.
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Yes, an incorrect application of theory.
Face it -- I can spend three hours explaining F=M*A or I can drop a 1lb weight on your hand from 1 inch and again from 10 feet.
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And from that I will learn that it hurts more when a weight is dropped on me from a larger height, but will not have sufficient understanding of the underlying principles of mechanics to be able to apply it to a different situation. From that lesson, I will not understand how a rocket will behave in outer space, when you turn off the thrust.
-harry
 
Clark1961 said:
Nope. The effective crosswind is forward quarter so the controls are held into the wind.

My question is why would a student pilot fight so hard against those who actually fly taildraggers????? The world wonders????????????
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Good reality check. Perhaps the SP was too consumed by his own self-importance thinking he knew theoretical physics too well to see he was screwing up on the basics.

Thanks for setting me straight! (harry too.)
 
I Love this site and its interesting discussions. In my opinion Greg has explained it the best and his thoughts parallel mine.:nonod:

Now. What happens when you put a plane on a conveyor belt.?:yikes::yikes::rofl:
 
Niladri said:
Good reality check. Perhaps the SP was too consumed by his own self-importance thinking he knew theoretical physics too well to see he was screwing up on the basics.

Thanks for setting me straight! (harry too.)
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Good to see you say that. There is a lot to learn in this community. Unfortunately there are some that can never admit fault.

I tend to respect those that'll admit fault more then those that won't - even if the ones that won't know more.
 
dmccormack said:
The Wrights read every book on aeronautics then available and learned through experience that what was in the books was incomplete or just plain wrong.
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They also did wind tunnel testing and a lot of math.
 
In a crosswind, the worst risk occurs near the end of the landing roll when rudder and aileron effectiveness are diminishing and the relative wind is coming more and more from the side. Landing is worse than takeoff because the rudder doesn't have prop blast to give it more authority. Just because I was able to take off safely in a strong crosswind doesn't mean I'll be able to land in that same wind.

And yet, watch for a while the airplanes landing in a crosswind. Too often you'll see the thing make a decent touchdown, and then the ailerons go neutral because the pilots thinks the flight is over. Those ailerons should be deflected more and more as the rollout slows.

Dan
 
Niladri said:
Good reality check. Perhaps the SP was too consumed by his own self-importance thinking he knew theoretical physics too well to see he was screwing up on the basics.

Thanks for setting me straight! (harry too.)
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Jesse said it well. Good job of listening and getting yourself straighted out on the practical side of a particular concept.

How does the old line go? Something like: In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is!

I know it's corny but as an engineer who tries very hard to be practical, I sometimes get bogged down with theory. I've said "it shoulda worked" more than once.
 
rottydaddy said:
That teaches you what you need to know: that is, to simply do what it takes to keep all three wheels on the ground. Start moving the controls in such wind and you will very quickly discover what it takes. :D
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This is the best information I've read as of yet on this post. Just fly the airplane on the ground.

I find all that other stuff confusing. If I try to calculate any thing, Lester would already be in the weeds. :eek:

Deb
 
Dan Thomas said:
In a crosswind, the worst risk occurs near the end of the landing roll when rudder and aileron effectiveness are diminishing and the relative wind is coming more and more from the side. Landing is worse than takeoff because the rudder doesn't have prop blast to give it more authority. Just because I was able to take off safely in a strong crosswind doesn't mean I'll be able to land in that same wind.

And yet, watch for a while the airplanes landing in a crosswind. Too often you'll see the thing make a decent touchdown, and then the ailerons go neutral because the pilots thinks the flight is over. Those ailerons should be deflected more and more as the rollout slows.

Dan
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+1

You must fly a Luscombe :yesnod:.

Deb
 
Dan Thomas said:
In a crosswind, the worst risk occurs near the end of the landing roll when rudder and aileron effectiveness are diminishing and the relative wind is coming more and more from the side. Landing is worse than takeoff because the rudder doesn't have prop blast to give it more authority. Just because I was able to take off safely in a strong crosswind doesn't mean I'll be able to land in that same wind.

And yet, watch for a while the airplanes landing in a crosswind. Too often you'll see the thing make a decent touchdown, and then the ailerons go neutral because the pilots thinks the flight is over. Those ailerons should be deflected more and more as the rollout slows.

Dan
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Until I started flying gliders, which have a tailwheel, I had only heard the saying "fly it until it stops". Now I know what it means.
 
Matthew said:
Until I started flying gliders, which have a tailwheel, I had only heard the saying "fly it until it stops". Now I know what it means.
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The Aeronca folks all say "Fly it until it's tied down"

Seems silly, but the point is many, many dumb incidents happen taxiing to/ from the tie-down spot.
 
To the OP; We are all always student pilots...us short timers tend to go on here and ask alot of questions rather than post informational tracts aimed at teaching others. Here's a suggestion for you: Keep learning, keep flying, always be a student, and better than posting rote information: ask questions to get responses from the experienced pilots here and compare that information to what you believe to be the truth. What you will find is that alot more will be learned that way.
 
DutchessFlier said:
To the OP; We are all always student pilots...us short timers tend to go on here and ask alot of questions rather than post informational tracts aimed at teaching others. Here's a suggestion for you: Keep learning, keep flying, always be a student, and better than posting rote information: ask questions to get responses from the experienced pilots here and compare that information to what you believe to be the truth. What you will find is that alot more will be learned that way.
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:thumbsup:

Well said!
 
In the event that any of the experienced pilots in the forum would like to contribute a student-targeted article for the website http:freepilotinfo.blogspot.com, please let me know. Contributions will be gratefully acknowledged and will appear under your byline.

Thanks to everyone for all that I have learned from this forum.
 
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