Remember to make your mags "cold"

flhrci

flhrci

Final Approach
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David
Our airport's A&P forgot to shutoff the mag switches in a Citrabia today and he left the spark plug wires attached to the engine. While pulling the prop through for a compression check, the engine tried to start and the prop hit him in the thigh on his leg. He ended up with a good bruise, but is otherwise fine.

We always hear of these things but it does still happen. He admitted he screwed up and knew better.

David
 
flhrci said:
...the engine tried to start and the prop hit him in the thigh on his leg.
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Glad it wasn't any worse.

And we're all human and make mistakes.

But word to the wise...NEVER allow ANY part of your body to be within the propeller arc while manipulating the prop for ANY reason.

Let's assume he knew that and just had a brain fart.

It happens.
 
FastEddieB said:
But word to the wise...NEVER allow ANY part of your body to be within the propeller arc while manipulating the prop for ANY reason.
QUOTE]

This! Always stress this to my students, always. :yes:
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FastEddieB said:
Glad it wasn't any worse.

And we're all human and make mistakes.

But word to the wise...NEVER allow ANY part of your body to be within the propeller arc while manipulating the prop for ANY reason.

Let's assume he knew that and just had a brain fart.

It happens.
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Brain fart is what I think happened.
 
I don't touch the prop unless I have made visual contact with the keys sitting on the glareshield, and even then I keep out of the arc when moving it.
 
Wouldn't help with a Citabria, but I know what you mean.

I was once pulling prop through on a Champ and it started. I was ready for it. Walked back to the cockpit and verified the Mags were still off, they were. Only way to shut down the engine was to shut the fuel off and wait several minutes.

Brian
 
I have a procedure I do when pulling the PT19 prop through before start up. I physically touch the mag switches and verbally call it out. It's just my thing. I have other pilots make comments about it. They can say all they want, at the end of the day I will have all of my limbs intact and walk into the front door of my house to hug my daughters.
 
brcase said:
Wouldn't help with a Citabria, but I know what you mean.

I was once pulling prop through on a Champ and it started. I was ready for it. Walked back to the cockpit and verified the Mags were still off, they were. Only way to shut down the engine was to shut the fuel off and wait several minutes.

Brian
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Broken P- lead.?
 
flhrci said:
Our airport's A&P forgot to shutoff the mag switches in a Citrabia today and he left the spark plug wires attached to the engine. While pulling the prop through for a compression check, the engine tried to start and the prop hit him in the thigh on his leg. He ended up with a good bruise, but is otherwise fine.

We always hear of these things but it does still happen. He admitted he screwed up and knew better.

David
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I know A&P and IA s who routinely remove all the spark plug wires and all the top plugs before doing any compression checks. Just sayin.
 
BillTIZ said:
I know A&P and IA s who routinely remove all the spark plug wires and all the top plugs before doing any compression checks. Just sayin.
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That's what I do, and they get left undone until the engine is ready to run up after maintenance.

And I check the mag switch (or switches) before shutdown to see that they do indeed kill the mags. Found a hot one once.
 
Mags are always assumed hot. Guns are always assumed loaded.

My mechanic was holding one of the leads when someone moved the prop once. Got her attention.
 
flyingron said:
Mags are always assumed hot. Guns are always assumed loaded.

My mechanic was holding one of the leads when someone moved the prop once. Got her attention.
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Yup....always, always make sure. And I'll bet she tasted that zap!
 
BillTIZ said:
I know A&P and IA s who routinely remove all the spark plug wires and all the top plugs before doing any compression checks. Just sayin.
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That is the way it is normally done. Typically when you are doing a compression check you are doing so as part of a much broader inspection (100 hour, annual, pre-buy) and would eventually be pulling all of the plugs anyway.

I'd say that one of the dirty dozen human factors stepped forward and bit this guy. It happens to all of us in one form or another at some time in our career. If we are lucky, a bruise will be the worst we get.
 
Remember to make your mags "cold"
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Boy is this ever a timely thread.

Lately after our flight lessons my instructor has been walking back to the school leaving me to tie down and close up the aircraft. Before doing this we have to push the aircraft back into its parked position on the ramp. Our last lesson ran kind of long and so we were in a hurry as we pushed back the airplane. As usual my instructor then gathered his things, said "I'll see you inside" and proceeded to walk back to the school building. It was then that I noticed in my haste to get the engine shut down I left the keys in the switch, mags on Both.

Not good.
 
flhrci said:
Our airport's A&P forgot to shutoff the mag switches in a Citrabia today and he left the spark plug wires attached to the engine. While pulling the prop through for a compression check, the engine tried to start and the prop hit him in the thigh on his leg. He ended up with a good bruise, but is otherwise fine.

We always hear of these things but it does still happen. He admitted he screwed up and knew better.

David
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Knew a guy who was washing his plane but mags were on. Went to push it back from the wash rack and just a slight move of the prop caused it to fire and whack him in the head. Trip to the emergency room with a fracture/concussion.
 
Not always the mags, but your point is well-taken. Lost a good friend when he pulled a float plane up on the ramp and ducked around the front of the plane to get to the dock. Something hot in one of the cylinders caused a kickback and the prop made a half-revolution. It was enough to kill him. Ex-Navy aviator, too.

I echo the advice to never let any part of your body extend into the prop arc.

Bob Gardner
 
Important to check that the mags are grounding properly before every shutdown too.
 
I'll up all y'all with.....never let anyone work on an aircraft who doesn't know what they're doing.:goofy:
 
DavidWhite said:
Important to check that the mags are grounding properly before every shutdown too.
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And there is NO way to do that.

The average bendix mag switch is a piece of crap. You can turn it to L or R or even OFF and let the engine die and when you pull the key out one of the mags could be hot again.
 
flyingron said:
And there is NO way to do that.

The average bendix mag switch is a piece of crap. You can turn it to L or R or even OFF and let the engine die and when you pull the key out one of the mags could be hot again.
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Not quite. The bad Bendix switches can be forced a bit past the off position and be hot again, and can stick there. There's an AD on that. And some switches would let the key come out in positions other than off and there was an SB on that, too. Can't find it.

The AD:http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...C14960A415D956BD86256E520053A53E?OpenDocument

And I often find that AD as having been "complied with" at annual after annual. The mechanic does the test and finds the switch OK. He doesn't actually look uder the panel and confirm that it's a Bendix switch, and about in half the cases I run across the airplane has an ACS switch, not a Bendix. And there's a different AD on the ACS:

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument

Some guys do the right test on the ACS but fail to look and see that the required diode is installed.

Sigh.
 
Many years ago I was driving an alcohol dragster. We bought a mag to put on it. Thought I was real smart. I put it in, hooked up the wire coming from the mag to a hot battery switch. Yeah.

Fired up the motor, set the timing, ran up the engine a few times because it was really loud.

Suddenly fuel starts spraying out the injector pump onto the engine. I hit the kill switch.... hit the kill switch.... Ok, the engine is still running, spewing alcohol, and now that fuel catches fire, and we can't kill the engine.

I flipped the manual fuel shutoff, fire is really spreading, fire extinguishers are really flying now.... enough for me I am out of here. A second later the engine dies, fire is out, visibility in my small garage is zero due to fire extinguisher residue, the beer is all spilled, and the alcohol fumes are killing us.....

We checked the damage. The injector pump seals are shot, a couple of the lines to the injectors are burned and a couple of plug wires are melted, but other than that we got out pretty lucky.

Took out the defective (or so we thought) magneto. A few days later a friend of mine that raced sprint cars came by. I told him what happened and how we couldn't turn off the engine. He looked at me and asked if we hooked the wire up to ground to kill the engine....

Yeah, I really should have read the instructions......
 
RobertSubnet said:
Boy is this ever a timely thread.

Lately after our flight lessons my instructor has been walking back to the school leaving me to tie down and close up the aircraft. Before doing this we have to push the aircraft back into its parked position on the ramp. Our last lesson ran kind of long and so we were in a hurry as we pushed back the airplane. As usual my instructor then gathered his things, said "I'll see you inside" and proceeded to walk back to the school building. It was then that I noticed in my haste to get the engine shut down I left the keys in the switch, mags on Both.

Not good.
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I made it a habit a long time ago to pull them out and toss them on the glare shield whenever they're in the off position. I've had to drive back and get them from the glareshield a few times, but never find them hanging in the switch set to on... If the engine is stopping, they're on the dash...

This actually started the opposite way... I also put them on the dash setting up to get in. That makes it easy for me to see the mags at least are set to off, from up front, even if I never trust it. No digging in a pants pocket to confirm they aren't in, or waking to the door to see if they're in the seat or in the switch or on the floor...

They're either on the dash or I'm in the seat and they're in the switch because we're cranking or just shut down. No getting out without them back up on the dash.
 
How many will leave a loaded gun laying around? I would say no one or not many would do this. Why would you leave a loaded cylinder or engine laying around?

I always pull or shut off the fuel flow out of the fuel tank and let the carb run dry. Doing this even if the mag is left hot the engine will never start. Also doing this one will never take off with the fuel shut off. For the engine will never start unless said fuel is turned on.

Don't leave your engine loaded. Unload it before putting it away.

Tony
 
I love all of the comments about throwing the ignition key on the glare shield when the OP's described accident was on a Citabria. Many aircraft, the American Champion line included, do not have mags operated with a key. As such they are more prone to be accidentally left on.
 
FastEddieB said:
But word to the wise...NEVER allow ANY part of your body to be within the propeller arc while manipulating the prop for ANY reason.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that when I hand prop the Cub, parts of my body are on the propeller arc. It's a good general rule, but not an absolute. But definitely something to always be conscious of.
 
1600vw said:
How many will leave a loaded gun laying around? I would say no one or not many would do this.
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Bad example. A lot of folks around here do this.

With the exception of the Garand, all of mine are ready and somewhere... But I also live alone and the cat doesn't know how to work a firearm.
 
1600vw said:
How many will leave a loaded gun laying around?
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Please tell me you don't own or are otherwise exposed to firearms?

Assuming that the gun isn't loaded because you don't leave such laying around is exactly how negligent discharges occur.
 
mkosmo said:
Bad example. A lot of folks around here do this.

With the exception of the Garand, all of mine are ready and somewhere... But I also live alone and the cat doesn't know how to work a firearm.
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That's what the cat wants you to believe.
 
flyingron said:
Please tell me you don't own or are otherwise exposed to firearms?

Assuming that the gun isn't loaded because you don't leave such laying around is exactly how negligent discharges occur.
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I hope gun owners do not have this opinion. You always leave a gun empty then handle it as if its loaded. You should do the same with an engine. But as you see many do not do this.

So I make this comment now I am inept? I think not you are just assuming things and jumping to conclusions. Did I say I handle an engine any different because I leave it unloaded. I do this for the person who walks up and decides to mess with something they should not be.

Tony
 
mkosmo said:
Bad example. A lot of folks around here do this.

With the exception of the Garand, all of mine are ready and somewhere... But I also live alone and the cat doesn't know how to work a firearm.
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Many children and adults are killed every year by accidental discharge because of this.

While you state you live alone and your guns are in your private house. Most hangars are not private. You must act like you are not alone. Why I make the statement...You would not leave a loaded gun laying around, now would you, why leave a loaded engine laying around, you have no idea who will walk up and pick up or touch that prop?

Tony
 
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1600vw said:
You always leave a gun empty then handle it as if its loaded.
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Mine are loaded 100% of the time. Pretty useless if not:wink2:

Most hangars are not private
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Sure they are. Most hangars are within the perimiter of a fence, and the majority of them have doors and can be locked.
 
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fiveoboy01 said:
Mine are loaded 100% of the time. Pretty useless if not:wink2:



Sure they are. Most hangars are within the perimiter of a fence, and the majority of them have doors and can be locked.
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mscard88 said:
fiveoboy01 said:
Mine are loaded 100% of the time. Pretty useless if not:wink2:
QUOTE]

Should be chambered if ya really wanna be ready for 'em! :yes:
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fiveoboy01 said:
I figured that part was obvious as well:)
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While these hangars are within the perimeter of a fence, you have no idea when someone will enter your hangar. You lease and do not own, the FBO or anyone working for them may enter anytime.

But we all know this know don't we?

I don't believe anyone but you will agree to leave a loaded gun laying around with kids or who knows who else. Just as they would agree to not leave anything loaded laying around be it a engine.

I will do what works for me and keeps me and those around me safe. I will read about the others. They are the statistics.

Tony
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Only person who can enter my hangar is the owner and I know him personally. And no, the FBO can't just enter at will. They've actually been caught attempting to do so and were notified that the Sherriff on site would deal with them if they attempted to enter hangars that they've no authority to be in.

Anyways, the comparison to a loaded gun is so ridiculous that I'm not going to even debate it:)

Edit - Despite what you posted... I did not say it was ok to leave a loaded firearm out where it's accessible to kids and I certainly don't believe it's ok to do that.
 
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1600vw said:
I hope gun owners do not have this opinion. You always leave a gun empty then handle it as if its loaded.
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I misread your sarcasm. I thought you were saying that someone doesn't have to treat a gun as loaded because nobody leaves loaded guns around.

Yes, I'm a firm believer in unloading my guns when they are not under my direct control and yes I still assume they are loaded when I pick them up.
 
1600vw said:
Many children and adults are killed every year by accidental discharge because of this.

While you state you live alone and your guns are in your private house. Most hangars are not private. You must act like you are not alone. Why I make the statement...You would not leave a loaded gun laying around, now would you, why leave a loaded engine laying around, you have no idea who will walk up and pick up or touch that prop?

Tony
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No, I would not leave a loaded gun laying around in the front yard unattended, but my two self defense weapons are loaded and ready for action. Easily accessible to me and my wife. Gotta know how to take the safety off first. The one that I carry with me is loaded. I even carry it on me around the house, well, except in the shower. The guns are my third level of security.
1. Dog
2. House alarm
3. Loaded weapons in the hands of a well trained gun owner. If someone can get around the first two levels, they won't get past the third level.

All of my friends, and all of their friends all know how to handle a gun. The kids all know that if they see a gun, the first thing to do is notify a responsible adult.

If I remember right, most piston planes checklist will have you shut the mixture(s) off to shut down the engine(s). But that doesn't mean there isn't just enough fuel in the engine to fire off one cylinder and have the prop rotate a few times, enough to do damage to someone within the arc of the prop.

To sum it up, yes, for the unknowledgeable guns and airplanes can be dangerous. But still more people die from falls in the bathroom than are killed by guns or airplanes each year. Yet I never hear about how a certain group tries to ban bathrooms to save lives.
 
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