Relatively low-maintenance airplanes that have decent cross-country performance?

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
From what I've seen, RVs have incredible step by step documentation and are created to be easy to assemble with lots of (at least partially) prefabricated parts. Something like a T-18 (and I have some experience in this area) is built from just the blueprints (no "builders manual") and you have to fabricate everything from flat stock that you source yourself. You have to figure out which parts to make first. You need to sort out how to assemble it. You have to figure out which size rivet goes in which hole... That takes a lot more work, a lot more head scratching... So it's easy to see why an "insert tab A into slot B" RV would be so much more popular. However, once it is in the air, all of those advantages are behind you.
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Behind you? So was my buddies T18 every time I flew with him in my rv-4.......
 
Yet another "What Plane Should I Get..." Troll? Hopefully not...but maybe a poster should have to have at least 5 posts before they can ask this question LOL!
 
edo2000 said:
For the OP's mission, based in the midwest, I agree that an older Grumman Tiger would probably work well. Low maintenance, reasonable economy and speed. I bought a '77 with mid-time engine and original (faded) paint 5 yrs ago for $30k. Sold it for $32k 2 yrs later. Not sure what the current Tiger market looks like.
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I'm a happy Tiger owner, but the current market is a bit ridiculous IMHO. There are two on Trade-a-Plane now, both for over $100K.
 
ETres said:
Flight Design CTLS. It's an LSA with two seats, BRS, 110-115-knot cruise speed, cruise fuel burn 4-5 gallon per hour, range in excess of 600 miles, ultra-reliable 100HP Rotax 912 which burns either 91-octane E10 auto gas or 100LL avgas, has a wide comfy cabin, and will carry 110 lbs of baggage in the baggage compartment.
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That would have been a fun trip with the 45 knot headwinds I had this weekend. It would have only added 1.9 hours to the normal 1.8 hour trip. LoL
 
AlleyCat67 said:
I'm a happy Tiger owner, but the current market is a bit ridiculous IMHO. There are two on Trade-a-Plane now, both for over $100K.
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Yeah. Just saw a '79 model on Barnstormers with mid time engine and recent top overhaul for $129K....!? Whoa... The avionics were ok, but nothing spectacular. Hard to imagine it selling for anywhere near that. :)
 
Sinistar said:
Yet another "What Plane Should I Get..." Troll? Hopefully not...but maybe a poster should have to have at least 5 posts before they can ask this question LOL!
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why? This is the kind of thread that PoA loves! Until the next shiny thing anyways.
 
I would think you have thought about a twin but given it up for cost. The twin market is about as flat as any aircraft, many can be had for a fraction of a fast single. Yes it does cost more to maintain but the original buy in is much less. Their are real good ones out their kept in great condition if you get one the cost to maintain it just might be less than a fast single, in not so great shape. Just something to think about most twins have been on the market for a long time, they are real hard to sell, asking price and what people will take for a twin are sometimes miles apart.
 
schmookeeg said:
"I'm looking for a car that goes kinda fast and also gets kinda good gas mileage"

:dunno:
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I have a 2005 Miata MX5 with 6 speed that will kinda fit that description. (35-40 MPG driving speed limits)
Only 34000 miles and for sale :)
 
I fly a Mooney M20F with Johnson bar, has been very low maintenance for me. I do many cross country flights just completed a flight from southern Mexico MMBT to Anacortes Washington 74S, 2800 Miles. Then up into Canada and across the Canadian Rockies. Just completing annual and no major issues, Fast and very economical. Getting ready to fly her back to southern Mexico. I had a Cardinal prior another great plane but for cross country flights, I prefer the Mooney.
 
brien23 said:
I would think you have thought about a twin but given it up for cost. The twin market is about as flat as any aircraft, many can be had for a fraction of a fast single. Yes it does cost more to maintain but the original buy in is much less. Their are real good ones out their kept in great condition if you get one the cost to maintain it just might be less than a fast single, in not so great shape. Just something to think about most twins have been on the market for a long time, they are real hard to sell, asking price and what people will take for a twin are sometimes miles apart.
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I've made that argument in the past, but no more. The insurance paradigm has finally corrected from the baseline of the last 10 years. That much has been stipulated by the brokers and underwriters, never mind the plethora of articles published on the matter this year. If 100K retract single rates are increasing 20-50% for topped out customers, I shudder to think what the light twin rates are looking like. As such, it absolutely is a non-starter for a zero-retract owner in his own right to opt to dabble in a twin under the auspices of low acquisition price over insanely overpriced singles in the current market.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I've made that argument in the past, but no more. The insurance paradigm has finally corrected from the baseline of the last 10 years. That much has been stipulated by the brokers and underwriters, never mind the plethora of articles published on the matter this year. If 100K retract single rates are increasing 20-50% for topped out customers, I shudder to think what the light twin rates are looking like. As such, it absolutely is a non-starter for a zero-retract owner in his own right to opt to dabble in a twin under the auspices of low acquisition price over insanely overpriced singles in the current market.
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Easily into 5 figures for a 0 time retract guy in a twin in today's insurance market.
 
EdFred said:
Easily into 5 figures for a 0 time retract guy in a twin in today's insurance market.
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Is there such a thing as "liability only" in airplane insurance like when you give a 16 year old a beater Cavalier? If you can buy a 310 for let's say $60k and they're going to charge you north of $10k if you don't have a loan why bother covering it.
 
Todd82 said:
Is there such a thing as "liability only" in airplane insurance like when you give a 16 year old a beater Cavalier? If you can buy a 310 for let's say $60k and they're going to charge you north of $10k if you don't have a loan why bother covering it.
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Yes, you can do that. And liability is the same no matter what the airframe is. At least through my broker it never changed when I asked for a quote on another plane I was considering.
 
Sinistar said:
Yet another "What Plane Should I Get..." Troll? Hopefully not...but maybe a poster should have to have at least 5 posts before they can ask this question LOL!
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True. And Bonanza was one of the planes in his list of options. So... Bonanza.

Honestly, our Arrow is really good on trips like this. Just flew 200 nm each way with my kid to see my folks. Good speed, good gph, comfy, stable, etc... I like it. But that doesn't mean that 1000 other PoA'ers will agree.

So.... Bonanza.
 
Buy a plane for your semi-local trips and rent for the Cross Country’s. I haven’t seen the Cessna C-177 Cardinal mentioned. Even though it’s a 60 year old design, it looks as modern as tomorrow! You can get them fixed or retract, and fixed pitch and CS propeller. There are a lot of aftermarket upgrades, from drag reduction to TurboNormalized.My sweet spot would be fixed gear with a CS prop. Just join the Cardinal Flyers Online group and get a thorough pre/buy.
 
EdFred said:
Easily into 5 figures for a 0 time retract guy in a twin in today's insurance market.
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How many pilots are out there with Multi Engine ratings and 0 retract time? Is that even possible?
 
Ed Haywood said:
How many pilots are out there with Multi Engine ratings and 0 retract time? Is that even possible?
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Na, never happen......:rolleyes:

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Crashnburn said:
Buy a plane for your semi-local trips and rent for the Cross Country’s.
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That’s a bad idea because they charge per hour and have a minimum per day charge as well. So a Saturday to Saturday trip that puts 8 hours on the hobbs will cost you 32 hours in rental fees. Gets expensive quickly.
 
Tom-D said:
the Glasair I linked would be perfect, 0-320- 150 horse, fixed gear, and EXP to maintain.
160 knots, 8 GPH, it doesn't get better than this.
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Fixed gear? The Glassair you link to has retractable gear. :confused2::confused2::confused2:
 
Crashnburn said:
Buy a plane for your semi-local trips and rent for the Cross Country’s. I haven’t seen the Cessna C-177 Cardinal mentioned. Even though it’s a 60 year old design, it looks as modern as tomorrow! You can get them fixed or retract, and fixed pitch and CS propeller. There are a lot of aftermarket upgrades, from drag reduction to TurboNormalized.My sweet spot would be fixed gear with a CS prop. Just join the Cardinal Flyers Online group and get a thorough pre/buy.
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Rent what from whom? There's nothing in my area (Orlando, FL, fairly major metro area) above an 182 for rent for that kind of flying. Yes, yu can rent twins for training, with an instructor, but cross country? nada.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
I'm a happy Tiger owner, but the current market is a bit ridiculous IMHO. There are two on Trade-a-Plane now, both for over $100K.
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edo2000 said:
Yeah. Just saw a '79 model on Barnstormers with mid time engine and recent top overhaul for $129K....!? Whoa... The avionics were ok, but nothing spectacular. Hard to imagine it selling for anywhere near that. :)
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N1120A said:
Your mission screams Tiger
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Cheetah/Tiger is my goal later this year. Been watching the market for months and it's pretty insane. My favorite was one that popped up in Louisiana. Was listed at $60k one day, then $75k the next day :lol: Guess he saw what the other ones were listed at. There's one in MS that showed up yesterday that I'd jump on if I were in a better position to, but need to wait a couple of more months for better timing.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Cheetah/Tiger is my goal later this year. Been watching the market for months and it's pretty insane. My favorite was one that popped up in Louisiana. Was listed at $60k one day, then $75k the next day :lol: Guess he saw what the other ones were listed at. There's one in MS that showed up yesterday that I'd jump on if I were in a better position to, but need to wait a couple of more months for better timing.
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I saw that one too. Plus the crazy 100k+ ones
 
In my experience, renting for XC sucks, especially if you are non-IFR. Flying VFR requires flexibility to change, extend, or cancel your itinerary to fly when weather conditions are favorable. FBO's get ****ed about that, because it ties up their aircraft from generating other revenue. Try booking a one week trip and then cancelling it on the day of departure; or delaying return by 3 days while a front clears out and screwing the guy who has the aircraft booked after you. Ask me how I know.

Flying clubs are a different story, since they are organized for the benefit of the members. That or partnership can be a great way to maintain access to a plane for travel.
 
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My flying club charges by the tach hour no matter how many days you have it out. I have it rented out for an entire week at the end of Sept to take the wife to a few places.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Cheetah/Tiger is my goal later this year. Been watching the market for months and it's pretty insane.
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2020 is the year I got my PPL, and the year there was an unprecedented leap in used plane prices that took plane ownership off the table.....

o_O

A Tiger that sold for $60k last year that now sold for $120k last week isn't going to sell anywhere close for $70k in 2021. How much higher will it go? DK
 
WDD said:
2020 is the year I got my PPL, and the year there was an unprecedented leap in used plane prices that took plane ownership off the table.....

o_O
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THANKS! :incazzato:
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Cheetah/Tiger is my goal later this year. Been watching the market for months and it's pretty insane. My favorite wa
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WDD said:
2020 is the year I got my PPL, and the year there was an unprecedented leap in used plane prices that took plane ownership off the table.....

o_O

A Tiger that sold for $60k last year that now sold for $120k last week isn't going to sell anywhere close for $70k in 2021. How much higher will it go? DK
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Sit tight, man. These are crazy times. Once the external influences of COVID go away, the market should reach an equilibrium which more accurately reflects supply and demand.
 
Insurance going forward will serve as a resale price chiller by proxy.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Sit tight, man. These are crazy times. Once the external influences of COVID go away, the market should reach an equilibrium which more accurately reflects supply and demand.
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I don’t need equilibrium. I need plane prices to drop so hard there is weeping, gnashing of teeth, and overall despair that makes grown men think fondly of the Great Recession.

Now - that could be at odds with people who already own planes ........
 
WDD said:
I don’t need equilibrium. I need plane prices to drop so hard there is weeping, gnashing of teeth, and overall despair that makes grown men think fondly of the Great Recession.

Now - that could be at odds with people who already own planes ........
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LOL! I was hoping for that to happen in Colorado ski towns when the AirBnB short term rental economy collapsed. Was watching condo prices in Steamboat like a hawk this spring and summer. The exact opposite happened. People from Chicago and NYC fled the city and bought up everything with a roof. Literally EVERYTHING, not a single condo for sale in my range.

So I bought a plane.
 
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