Reduce speed in an a hurry and not gain altitude

nauga said:
Because the requirement is only at Va and below. Above Va there is no requirement and the loads with full rudder, even after gradual application, may exceed the structural limits at some point between Va and Vne.

Nauga,
with a shake, rattle, and roll
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That's not a mystery to me, but when below VA wouldn't holding steady full rudder pressure be less stressful than the sudden application of it?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Ugg. Va is the design limit for when an airplane at gross weight can encounter turbulent air and will stall before exceeding max G loads. It has to do with stall speed and load factors. How many G's are you putting on the plane in a slip in smooth air? Yes run it up to just under Vne and then jam a pedal to the floor in under a second and you might just bend something. Duh. But put it in a slip in smooth air and apply the inputs over several seconds? I think you'll be just fine in most GA aircraft.
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You’re referring to Vb.

See @nauga ’s post above for a partial definition of Va.
 
dtuuri said:
That's not a mystery to me, but when below VA wouldn't holding steady full rudder pressure be less stressful than the sudden application of it?
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Yes...but we've been discussing the meaning of Va and when full deflection is appropriate.

Nauga,
pedalling
 
MauleSkinner said:
See @nauga’s post above for a partial definition of Va.
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OK, here's something that really bugs me about 'The FARs' (besides calling CFR14 'The FARs' :) ). The roll and yaw requirements aren't part of the definition of Va, but buried later in the same part under other requirements that have to be met at Va. All of these conditions have to be met at Va, but only one is considered 'the definition,' leading to misinterpretations and misunderstandings galore.

Nauga,
ill-defined
 
nauga said:
Yes...but we've been discussing the meaning of Va and when full deflection is appropriate.

Nauga,
pedalling
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Thanks, I didn't read the first two pages of this thread. For the OP, I'd quote Shakespeare (as I have before), especially with regard to a woman pilot pushing you, "I dare do all that becomes a man, who dares do more is none."
 
WannFly said:
what is the best trick to reduce speed in a hurry, say from 100 kts to 60 or so and not gain altitude?

thoughts? something that I can practice at altitude so this doesn't happen to the faster plane following me.
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What did you do that caused you to gain altitude?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Which POH limitation deals with full-deflection slips?
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+/- G ratings would be the nearest applicable limitations, neither of which I am close to.

RoscoeT said:
Your airplane's Va speed is 200mph? Please tell us what you fly. I wouldn't fully deflect the rudder at 200mph in an aerobatic airplane much less some GA plane, but it's your airplane dude.
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Oh, you're assuming that the inputs are "slam it to the stops with sudden force." There's your problem. You do realize you can put in control inputs above Va as long as you ease them in and be OK, right?
 
EdFred said:
Oh, you're assuming that the inputs are "slam it to the stops with sudden force." There's your problem. You do realize you can put in control inputs above Va as long as you ease them in and be OK, right?
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Nope, not assuming any "slamming". Regardless, I would not fully deflect the rudder at 200mph in any airplane. Not sure you appreciate the loads on the vertical surface and rudder in doing this. Again, your airplane. What the heck do you fly???
 
RoscoeT said:
Nope, not assuming any "slamming". Regardless, I would not fully deflect the rudder at 200mph in any airplane. Not sure you appreciate the loads on the vertical surface and rudder in doing this. Again, your airplane. What the heck do you fly???
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Comanche, and the plane is not at a constant 200mph during the entire slip. Pull power, come off red line, plane slows, ease in the slip, nose up, keep it going till gear speed, straighten, drop gear, put the slip back in until speed is bled off. It's not like this is don'e all the time. It's been done twice. St Augustine Florida I was given the choice of direct to the numbers or wait for an airliner on 10+ mile final. The other time was just last year when there was a discussion that it was "impossible" to slow a Mooney in less than some ridiculously long distance. Since they have the same wing, I said it could be done in under a mile, and it was accomplished.
 
WannFly said:
...since I was already on very short final.
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“Unable”.

If the Mooney behind you can’t maintain separation when you’re on “very short final”, that’s their problem.

Even a Bravo stalls at 60 knots, so closure isn’t that great, unless the other pilot is already too close.
 
EdFred said:
Comanche, and the plane is not at a constant 200mph during the entire slip. Pull power, come off red line, plane slows, ease in the slip, nose up, keep it going till gear speed, straighten, drop gear, put the slip back in until speed is bled off. It's not like this is don'e all the time. It's been done twice. St Augustine Florida I was given the choice of direct to the numbers or wait for an airliner on 10+ mile final. The other time was just last year when there was a discussion that it was "impossible" to slow a Mooney in less than some ridiculously long distance. Since they have the same wing, I said it could be done in under a mile, and it was accomplished.
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I wouldn't think using a Comanche as a surrogate for slowing down a Mooney would be very meaningful. I'll take your word they have the same wing, though I've never heard that before, but the cabin profiles are not even close as the performance difference between the two pretty clearly shows.
 
Salty said:
I wouldn't think using a Comanche as a surrogate for slowing down a Mooney would be very meaningful. I'll take your word they have the same wing, though I've never heard that before, but the cabin profiles are not even close as the performance difference between the two pretty clearly shows.
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Its was the closest thing I had access to at the time. Comanche is essentially a widebody Mooney.
 
I have found that, in general, until I lower the gear, it's difficult for me to simultaneously descend and slow down. I can do either, but not both.
 
I heard a 172 check in with approach while I was on final for runway 21 at Tucson last Saturday. The controller said "you're following a Cherokee on a one two mile final." While I didn't know exactly where he was, I kept my speed up as a courtesy. As it turns out, I had landed, made a 180 on the runway, taxied back, parked and was getting out when I saw the 172 cross the threshold. I'm courteous to other pilots too but that courtesy goes both ways, if I'm following someone slower, its on me to make it work.
 
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