Red Tails

Gerhardt said:
I was really looking forward to seeing the movie. Until I saw the trailer. Now, after reading the reviews I'm saving my $. May pay a buck to watch it when it hits Redbox next month.
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See it in a theater. The flight scenes are genuinely cool, but they'll look fake on TV. Much of it is unrealistic, and modified for dramatic effect. So what? It's a movie.

Honestly, how many other new aviation based movies are you going to see this year?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Thing to keep in mind about Red Tails....is that it is not billed as a documentary. It is one of those Hollywood 'Inspired by true events' movies. Think of it like the WWI movie Flyboys, or the 1990 Memphis Belle, or....Titanic. Lots of fictional characters made from a 'collage' of real people intertwined with a historical plot line.
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Thanks, I forgot about that:)
 
steingar said:
See it in a theater. The flight scenes are genuinely cool, but they'll look fake on TV. Much of it is unrealistic, and modified for dramatic effect. So what? It's a movie.

Honestly, how many other new aviation based movies are you going to see this year?
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:yeahthat:
I saw it, and am glad I saw it in a theater. No, it wasn't perfect, but I probably went in with expectations too high. Now others won't have that problem. I still recommend it!
 
I thought the character development was too weak. The change of interactions between the white pilots and the TAs from hatred to drinking buddies in one scene did not do justice to what was happening there. I would have gladly traded the time spend documenting ?easy's? relationship with Sophie for more time showing a more gradual and in depth look at how the two groups came together.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

The Tuskeegee airmen were pilots of African ancestry who, despite widespread discrimination, performed exemplary service in bomber escort during WWII. I didn't see the movie as any less inaccurate than any other war movie.

Again, I think the complaints in these threads are nearly devoid of merit. They made a movie about pilots during WWII that featured scenes of aerial combat. It will be the only one this year, if not this decade. I certainly compared favorably to Lucas' other projects, like Star Wars parts I, II, and III.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
The Tuskeegee airmen were pilots of African ancestry who, despite widespread discrimination, performed exemplary service in bomber escort during WWII. I didn't see the movie as any less inaccurate than any other war movie.

Again, I think the complaints in these threads are nearly devoid of merit. They made a movie about pilots during WWII that featured scenes of aerial combat. It will be the only one this year, if not this decade. I certainly compared favorably to Lucas' other projects, like Star Wars parts I, II, and III.
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You're entitled to your opinion, but assuming others that don't concur with your assessment are "devoid of merit" is a stretch.

Especially when other movies have been made with far more accuracy and impact.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
Again, I think the complaints in these threads are nearly devoid of merit. They made a movie about pilots during WWII that featured scenes of aerial combat. It will be the only one this year, if not this decade. I certainly compared favorably to Lucas' other projects, like Star Wars parts I, II, and III.
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My complaint is that there was a better movie already made (Tuskegee Airmen - 1995).

Red Tails is by no means a stinker......but, if you are going take on a subject like that and one that has been done before......at least try improve on what has been done in the past.

It isn't like re-releasing Star Wars in 3D was takin' up alot of Lucas' time......
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
Name two.
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Glory....Dan already mentioned it - far more accurate and far greater impact.

30 Seconds over Tokyo - you can argue how great an impact the movie itself was, but the accuracy is hard to beat.

There are many others.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

Fearless Tower said:
My complaint is that there was a better movie already made (Tuskegee Airmen - 1995).
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The boring made for TV HBO movie? Better? Do you really think you could have put that in the theater and drummed up 20 million dollars?
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

Fearless Tower said:
Glory....Dan already mentioned it - far more accurate and far greater impact.

30 Seconds over Tokyo - you can argue how great an impact the movie itself was, but the accuracy is hard to beat.

There are many others.
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30 seconds over Tokyo is from another era. Comparing it to anything made today is apples and oranges. While Glory was a very good movie, I doubt it was any more historically accurate, and more importantly didn't involve airplanes.

Yes, there were far better war movies in the distant past, there I'll agree. Not so many in the American Idol obsessed present, and painfully few of those involving airplanes.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
The boring made for TV HBO movie? Better? Do you really think you could have put that in the theater and drummed up 20 million dollars?
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steingar said:
30 seconds over Tokyo is from another era. Comparing it to anything made today is apples and oranges. While Glory was a very good movie, I doubt it was any more historically accurate, and more importantly didn't involve airplanes.

Yes, there were far better war movies in the distant past, there I'll agree. Not so many in the American Idol obsessed present, and painfully few of those involving airplanes.
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Sorry Michael, but they met your request. Now you're adding a bunch of restrictions. Personally I think RT could have been better, but still found it to be a very enjoyable piece of entertainment.
 
I think people need to remember what the intent of the movie probably was. This was George Lucas making it, not Ken Burns so you could expect it to look more like Star Wars than The Civil War.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

gprellwitz said:
Sorry Michael, but they met your request. Now you're adding a bunch of restrictions. Personally I think RT could have been better, but still found it to be a very enjoyable piece of entertainment.
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Perhaps. But do you think it a fair comparison to compare something from decades ago to something from today? Our culture has moved on, for better for for worse. I simply can't blame Lucas and company for trying to make something with the potential for commercial success. They have a lot of scratch on the line.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
30 seconds over Tokyo is from another era. Comparing it to anything made today is apples and oranges. While Glory was a very good movie, I doubt it was any more historically accurate, and more importantly didn't involve airplanes.

Yes, there were far better war movies in the distant past, there I'll agree. Not so many in the American Idol obsessed present, and painfully few of those involving airplanes.
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Glory was based on a book drawn from letters by COL Gould, the commander. The movie was fairly true to the story of the 54th Mass infantry (including the climatic attack on Fort Wagner).

In another thread I mentioned Twelve o'clock High and Tora, Tora, Tora. Heck, even Dr Strangelove had the most authentic interior B-52 scenes of any movie (the flying scenes were not so good).

Even the B-28 bomb ridden by Slim Pickens was accurate -- down to the blue balls.

Courage under Fire was fairly accurate in its portrayal of M-1 tank interior and crew interaction.
 
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Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
Perhaps. But do you think it a fair comparison to compare something from decades ago to something from today? Our culture has moved on, for better for for worse. I simply can't blame Lucas and company for trying to make something with the potential for commercial success. They have a lot of scratch on the line.
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The Kings Speech was released in 2011. I guess all the people who liked it are dead or really old?
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but assuming others that don't concur with your assessment are "devoid of merit" is a stretch.

Especially when other movies have been made with far more accuracy and impact.
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I'm going to add another opinion.....

A pilot who frequents a different forum, that I read regularly.........flies a B-25 for the CAF, as well as the Red Tail P-51 (recently rebuilt-again).

He talked with George Lucas at Oshkosh about Red Tails. Mr. Lucas said the film would not be a documentary. He said it would be more of a "shoot it up" movie, with hopes of attracting teenagers into flying.

This B-25/P-51 pilot "liked" the movie, despite some inaccuracies which he mentioned.

L.Adamson
 
Out of curiosity and since I had nothing else good to do I went to see the movie yesterday. I was not really that impressed, but it gets a passing grade for it's entertainment value. No P51's were hurt in the making of this movie, I hope...
For people who know little or nothing about flying it gives an idea of what went on at the time.
 
I liked it.

It's like an old John Wayne movie. With a civil rights twist.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

steingar said:
Name two.
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How about Tora, Tora, Tora and The Battle of Britian?

Just ask'n...:D

I said it before. The problem with Red Tails (and I've only seen the trailer) is that some of the animation has the airplane defying physics... Airplanes don't move like that!!! George Lucas is always looking to produce an Epic, but the technology he employs gets in the way...
 
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A couple days before I watched Red Tails I watched Casablanca, also a WWII movie which is considered a classic. The few airplane scenes are very fake and I'm sure the story and scenes don't resemble the reality of the day very much, but it's still an enjoyable movie.
 
Everskyward said:
A couple days before I watched Red Tails I watched Casablanca, also a WWII movie which is considered a classic. The few airplane scenes are very fake and I'm sure the story and scenes don't resemble the reality of the day very much, but it's still an enjoyable movie.
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That's very true, but all they had were models on a string. Today we have the technology to effectively reproduce airplane movement, and visual accuracy. Look at "Dogfights" series on the History Channel. They accurately reproduce how airplanes fly, and look down to the distorted ripples of air form the jet exhaust heat.

In this day and age there is no excuse for this type of mistakes. Casablancas technicians just did not have the technology in 1941 (over 70 years ago).
 
Anthony said:
That's very true, but all they had were models on a string. Today we have the technology to effectively reproduce airplane movement, and visual accuracy. Look at "Dogfights" series on the History Channel. They accurately reproduce how airplanes fly, and look down to the distorted ripples of air form the jet exhaust heat.

In this day and age there is no excuse for this type of mistakes. Casablancas technicians just did not have the technology in 1941 (over 70 years ago).
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I wasn't specifically talking about the "special effects" in Casablanca. The plot and dialogue were a little contrived too, don't you think? Yet it's good entertainment and was a big hit back then. It still survives today.
 
Did they have an airplane go out of control when the engine quit to be saved only at the last moment by the pilot putting their forearms behind the yoke / stick and pulling with all their strength?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Did they have an airplane go out of control when the engine quit to be saved only at the last moment by the pilot putting their forearms behind the yoke / stick and pulling with all their strength?
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Have you ever seen Casablanca? It's not a flying movie and has a total of about one minute of airplane footage, none from the cockpit. I was talking more about the plot and dialogue.
 
Everskyward said:
Have you ever seen Casablanca? It's not a flying movie and has a total of about one minute of airplane footage, none from the cockpit. I was talking more about the plot and dialogue.
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Yes, I have.

I was referring back to the original topic - sorry should have been more clear.

But, unless they had the aforementioned scene, it could have been worse.
 
17-Rebel-Hoth-Ext-2632resize560.jpg

Red-Tails-movie-Clips-George-Lucas-Interview.jpg
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
Especially when other movies have been made with far more accuracy and impact.
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I can think of movies with far more accuracy, and I can think of movies with more impact, but I cannot think of any movie with far more accuracy and impact.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
Roots

Driving Miss Daisy

Glory


Need more...?
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Roots: TV mini series; not directly comparable to cinematic releases.

Driving Miss Daisy (1989): box office take $146M.

Glory (1989): box office take $27M.

Star Wars episode IV (1977): box office take $775M.
Star Wars episode V (1980): box office take $538M.
Star Wars episode VI (1983) box office take $475M.
Star Wars episode I (1999) box office take $924M.
Star Wars episode II (2002) box office take $649M.
Star Wars episode III (2005) box office take $849M.

Is it any wonder why someone who has found a successful formula would continue to use it, where and when they can, for as long as it continues to succeed? Particularly when it is his own millions at stake?
 
Someone mentioned Benjamin O. Davis in one of the RedTails threads...

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/152746/Benjamin-O-Davis-Jr

An impressive history.

One of the interesting side-notes of this is that over the last few years, the influence of General J.F. "Jack" Curry on the creation of Civil Air Patrol and various other early formation of the Air Force has been coming to light as historians dig into the records.

Documents have shown that Gen. "Jack" Curry was extremely open-minded and wanted all races and female pilots in whatever civilian pilot group came along, eventually becoming CAP.

Maxwell Field, now Maxwell AFB was only 55 miles from Tuskegee, which was listed as one of its emergency alternate fields. Curry's fingerprints are all over both places.

The current CAP HQ just happens to be in the hospital building that Curry built at Maxwell.

Curry was temporarily stationed at Lowry field here in Denver, and was the only Military staff officer ever in charge of CAP at its outset. He is buried in Ft. Logan National Cemetery here in Denver, and every year our local CAP Wing honors him.

Most of the "rediscovery" of Gen. Curry's actions and involvement in CAP, Maxwell, and various other exploits started around 2008 and has been documented by our local historian, Captain Ed. O'Brien, CAP - as he has found various documents and connections.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5582.0

Many are probably still to be discovered. Real history is always far more interesting than any movie has ever been.

Here's a note from Ed that he sent to our Squadron (where he currently serves as our Deputy Commander) today:

----
Good Ladies and Gentlemen;
This is from my own original research on this topic. This research has been confirmed by numerous historians in peer review. Click Here:
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/01/honoring-the-tuskegee-airmen/

John Curry and Claire Chennault worked against the prevailing racist attitudes of the day to raise, resource, and train - what would become the Tuskegee Airmen of WW2. However, the work of these two Army officers was conducted in 1934-35. These proto-Tuskegee Airmen would first fight in the Abyssinian Campaign against the Italians.

At the time Curry and Chennault were based at Maxwell Field (now Maxwell AFB). Each worked for the newly established Tactical Air Command. Moton Field at Tuskegee University was an auxiliary field for Maxwell. Maxwell was/is about 55 miles from Tuskegee University.

Chennault would use what he learned at Tuskegee to train Chinese Pilots in WW2 from '38-'42. What they all learned would make for an illustrious history. Much of this history is being celebrated in the new film - "The Red Tails." In other words CAP and the Black Airmen of Tuskegee have the same proud father - (Jack) John Francis Curry.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN, Capt. CAP
CO/WG Heritage Project Officer
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

Jim Logajan said:
Roots: TV mini series; not directly comparable to cinematic releases.

Driving Miss Daisy (1989): box office take $146M.

Glory (1989): box office take $27M.

Star Wars episode IV (1977): box office take $775M.
Star Wars episode V (1980): box office take $538M.
Star Wars episode VI (1983) box office take $475M.
Star Wars episode I (1999) box office take $924M.
Star Wars episode II (2002) box office take $649M.
Star Wars episode III (2005) box office take $849M.

Is it any wonder why someone who has found a successful formula would continue to use it, where and when they can, for as long as it continues to succeed? Particularly when it is his own millions at stake?
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Here's how conversation works:

One person makes and observation.
Another replies to that observation.

My response was to the assertion that there were no films that had "accuracy and impact."

Multiple millions is not the only measure of "success." If so, Big Macs are far more successful than any film.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
Here's how conversation works:

One person makes and observation.
Another replies to that observation.

My response was to the assertion that there were no films that had "accuracy and impact."

Multiple millions is not the only measure of "success." If so, Big Macs are far more successful than any film.
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And if you look at the average American waistline, have far more impact, too! :(
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
Roots
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Not a movie.

Driving Miss Daisy
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Fiction.

Glory
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Remember the scene in which Denzel Washington is flogged? Very dramatic, a former slave serving in the Union Army being flogged. The Army banned flogging in 1861, the 54th Massachusetts wasn't formed until 1863.

Need more...?
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Well, given that the count is currently zero, yes.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

dmccormack said:
Here's how conversation works:

One person makes and observation.
Another replies to that observation.

My response was to the assertion that there were no films that had "accuracy and impact."
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No it wasn't, your response was to this statement; "I can think of movies with far more accuracy, and I can think of movies with more impact, but I cannot think of any movie with far more accuracy and impact."
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

roncachamp said:
Remember the scene in which Denzel Washington is flogged? Very dramatic, a former slave serving in the Union Army being flogged. The Army banned flogging in 1861, the 54th Massachusetts wasn't formed until 1863.
.
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Doesn't mean it didn't happen. There was a hate crime hanging about 1-1/2 yrs ago if memory serves. And right here in the good ole' U.S. of A
 
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