Red Light Ticket

[Unregistered]

Hello,

With very few driving tickets in my background, I am ashamed to say I got a "Red Light Camera" ticket--a ticket for turning during a red light. I received it in the mail, and lo and behold, it really was my car, lisence plate and all. Now, the ticket itself states very clearly that it is *not* a moving violation, and does not affect points. My question is: do I need to report this; if so, when--on the medical? I know one does not need to report speeding tickets if they did not result in an action on the drivers lisence, etc., and I am thinking that since this is not a moving violation, it is even less serious.

Thank you for your help!

 

[TMetzinger]

no need to report it.

 

[gismo]

Hello,

With very few driving tickets in my background, I am ashamed to say I got a "Red Light Camera" ticket--a ticket for turning during a red light. I received it in the mail, and lo and behold, it really was my car, lisence plate and all. Now, the ticket itself states very clearly that it is *not* a moving violation, and does not affect points. My question is: do I need to report this; if so, when--on the medical? I know one does not need to report speeding tickets if they did not result in an action on the drivers lisence, etc., and I am thinking that since this is not a moving violation, it is even less serious.

Thank you for your help!

AFaIK the only things you need to report WRT automobile infractions are anything drug or alcohol related and/or anything that involves suspension or revocation of your driver's license. That normally leaves out speeding tickets, and any tickets for running red lights whether issued by mail or on the spot.

BTW the civil liberties folks were sucessful in getting a judge to declare the law that allows tickets for traffic violations to be issued to owners here in Minnesota unconstitutional so the last I heard the red light cameras were OTS for now. IOW you might be able to beat that ticket.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

you can't turn right on a red??

 

[SCCutler]

you can't turn right on a red??

Daved, I think he ws turning left.

Bigger issue: living where you do, do you even recall what a "red light" is?

 

[tonycondon]

nearest stop light to marfa is like 73 miles i think. Burt says he always has trouble remembering if green means stop or go when he gets to big cities.

 

[poadeleted20]

AFaIK the only things you need to report WRT automobile infractions are anything drug or alcohol related and/or anything that involves suspension or revocation of your driver's license.

Note that the suspension or revocation must be reported to the FAA within 60 days if it is related to alcohol or drugs. See 14 CFR 61.15(b)(2). However, any suspension or revocation for any traffic conviction reason must be reported on the next medical application. See the instructions for FAA Form 8500-8. What need not be reported at all is individual traffic convictions not related to alcohol/drugs and not resulting in suspension/revocation.

 

[Henning]

Hello,

With very few driving tickets in my background, I am ashamed to say I got a "Red Light Camera" ticket--a ticket for turning during a red light. I received it in the mail, and lo and behold, it really was my car, lisence plate and all. Now, the ticket itself states very clearly that it is *not* a moving violation, and does not affect points. My question is: do I need to report this; if so, when--on the medical? I know one does not need to report speeding tickets if they did not result in an action on the drivers lisence, etc., and I am thinking that since this is not a moving violation, it is even less serious.

Thank you for your help!

No need to report that, and it's time to buy some prismatic film to put on your plates to glare out with the strobe...

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you very much!

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Daved, I think he ws turning left.
Bigger issue: living where you do, do you even recall what a "red light" is?

I see, must be a dialect thing - we'd a said, "I went through a red light";when he specified 'turned on a red' I figured a rt turn. I think it is illegal in some states? Yikes I'm probably a menace on the ground with my assumptions!
As to the nearest stop light, we have flash cards to train our drivers, and we pull them out to refresh our memory before going to the city!

 

[flyifrvfr]

I see, must be a dialect thing - we'd a said, "I went through a red light";when he specified 'turned on a red' I figured a rt turn. I think it is illegal in some states? Yikes I'm probably a menace on the ground with my assumptions!
As to the nearest stop light, we have flash cards to train our drivers, and we pull them out to refresh our memory before going to the city!

Sounds like he was in the middle of the intersection while the light was still green, waiting for a hole in traffic to make a left turn. The light turned red with him still in the middle of the intersection, and viola!

 

[mikea]

Sounds like he was in the middle of the intersection while the light was still green, waiting for a hole in traffic to make a left turn. The light turned red with him still in the middle of the intersection, and viola!

That's not a violation. You are allowed to clear the intersection AND opposing traffic is not supposed to enter the intersection on the green until the intersection is clear. All of this is funny trivia they forget 12 seconds after the last driver's ed class.

You should know that since the companies that make the cameras get paid solely from a percentage of the fines, once drivers hip to the scam stop being fish by making panic stops at yellow lights (very safe!), they shorten the yellow light time to get more fish.

 

[EdFred]

That's not a violation. You are allowed to clear the intersection AND opposing traffic is not supposed to enter the intersection on the green until the intersection is clear. All of this is funny trivia they forget 12 seconds after the last driver's ed class.

Ah, but you aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection unless you can clear it.

 

[flyifrvfr]

That's not a violation. You are allowed to clear the intersection AND opposing traffic is not supposed to enter the intersection on the green until the intersection is clear. All of this is funny trivia they forget 12 seconds after the last driver's ed class.

You should know that since the companies that make the cameras get paid solely from a percentage of the fines, once drivers hip to the scam stop being fish by making panic stops at yellow lights (very safe!), they shorten the yellow light time to get more fish.

As a former professional driver turned flight instructor, I can tell you without a doubt this is clearly a violation. The law addresses the cases where someone is attempting to make a left turn and waits in the middle of the intersection for traffic to allow the left turn. If the signal light turns red, and you are still in the middle of the intersection, you are in violation. Most people don't know that a yellow light means stop if you can do so safely, if not proceed with caution.

 

[tonycondon]

In Drivers Ed, I was taught that the right away at intersections always went to anyone in the intersection first, then whoever had green, then left turns. finally red turning right. maybe its just an Iowa thing, not like most of our intersections are uncontrolled anyway...

 

[gismo]

Ah, but you aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection unless you can clear it.

Not true in MN (or MI AFaIK) in the case where you are turning and waiting for crossing traffic to clear. IOW on a left turn from a two way highway, you aren't supposed to wait at the stop line and can proceed into the intersection while the light is green with the expectation of finishing the turn when the light turns yellow (or red).

 

[poadeleted20]

First, traffic laws are state-written, and can vary from state to state. Second, the important question is the FAA reporting requirement, and unless your license was suspended/revoked or there were drugs/alcohol involved in the charge, you need not report it to the FAA.

 

[mikea]

As a former professional driver turned flight instructor, I can tell you without a doubt this is clearly a violation. The law addresses the cases where someone is attempting to make a left turn and waits in the middle of the intersection for traffic to allow the left turn. If the signal light turns red, and you are still in the middle of the intersection, you are in violation. Most people don't know that a yellow light means stop if you can do so safely, if not proceed with caution.

Huh? So I'm waitng in or ahead in the left turn lane for oncoming trafic to stop. You usually have to wait a second or two after the light turns red because many Chicago drivers take the red light as merely a suggestion especially if they have a really safe megaton SUV or a really fast sporty something otherwise.

You're saying if I don't turn left into the oncoming traffic when the light turns yellow I'M IN VIOLATION? Don't think so.

I watched a few weeks ago as on the yellow a BMW turned left from the middle lane in front of a full size construction dump truck waiting in the left turn lane. Guess he was legal, too since he cleared under the yellow.

 

[Unregistered]

First, traffic laws are state-written, and can vary from state to state. Second, the important question is the FAA reporting requirement, and unless your license was suspended/revoked or there were drugs/alcohol involved in the charge, you need not report it to the FAA.

Thanks Ron.

 

[Henning]

Ah, but you aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection unless you can clear it.

Not true in most states (or countries for that matter. You enter the intersection to the point where you have to turn and wait there. If the light goes red, you go. Most places it's a two car limit, some places it's three. Typically it written right there in the state drivers manual.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I havent spent much time in cities but the ones I did, if you were turning left and stopped short of the intersection, people would be driving around and in front of you while honking and flipping you the bird! Seriously!
I have seen cops turn left as the light turned red.
Hey doesn't amber mean 'GUN IT!!' ?

 

[wsuffa]

I havent spent much time in cities but the ones I did, if you were turning left and stopped short of the intersection, people would be driving around and in front of you while honking and flipping you the bird! Seriously!
I have seen cops turn left as the light turned red.
Hey doesn't amber mean 'GUN IT!!' ?

When I lived in NY, green meant "GO", yellow meant "hurry", and red meant "go really fast!"....

 

[flyifrvfr]

Huh? So I'm waitng in or ahead in the left turn lane for oncoming trafic to stop. You usually have to wait a second or two after the light turns red because many Chicago drivers take the red light as merely a suggestion especially if they have a really safe megaton SUV or a really fast sporty something otherwise.

You're saying if I don't turn left into the oncoming traffic when the light turns yellow I'M IN VIOLATION? Don't think so.

I watched a few weeks ago as on the yellow a BMW turned left from the middle lane in front of a full size construction dump truck waiting in the left turn lane. Guess he was legal, too since he cleared under the yellow.

The example you provide above suggests the presence of a protected left turn lane. You have a dedicated lane with a dedicated signal to allow drivers to safely turn left without the interference of on-coming traffic. However, If the signal for the left turn lane is sycronized with opposing traffic, and their light turns green, you must not block the intersection by stopping in the middle. You must be able to enter the intersection and make the left turn without stopping.

If you do stop in the middle of the intersection and the light turns red, you are caught in "no man's land " and could be issued a citation for proceeding to turn left when the light turned red. Granted, most police officers won't write that ticket, but if the intersection is served by a redlight camera, you will get a ticket.

As I said, I am a professional driver who operated a tractor trailer all across the U.S. I now teach flight instruction.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

As I said, I am a professional driver who operated a tractor trailer all across the U.S.

Me too... And that makes neither one of us an authority on traffic laws!

We do, however, have a much better idea of what we can get away with.

 

[ausrere]

I havent spent much time in cities but the ones I did, if you were turning left and stopped short of the intersection, people would be driving around and in front of you while honking and flipping you the bird! Seriously!
I have seen cops turn left as the light turned red.
Hey doesn't amber mean 'GUN IT!!' ?

In Texas, you can enter an intersection on a solid green light to turn left at an intersection (in other words you don't have to wait at the stop line). BUT, if you are stuck in the middle when the light turns red and you interfere with crossing traffic or cause an accident, you can be cited for failure to yield right of way (and that includes the right of way to pedestrians in the cross walk you might be stopped over). Same is true for proceeding through a green light traveling forward and getting caught in the middle of the intersection when the light turns red because of a long line in front of you. It's usually written as "Blocking the intersection", but it's Failure to Yield Right of Way.

 

[tonycondon]

yes but that is Texas...

that place is like a whole nother freakin country

 

[ausrere]

yes but that is Texas...

that place is like a whole nother freakin country

Yup..and we are very proud of that down here!

 

[flyifrvfr]

Me too... And that makes neither one of us an authority on traffic laws!

We do, however, have a much better idea of what we can get away with.

Kent, how do you know what you can get away with if you don't know the laws. Are you really getting away with something that is legal. I can't speak for you because I don't know you. The reverse is true as well, you can't speak of my knowledge, or lack thereof. Unless of course you have a greater power that I am unaware of. If this is the case please accept my apologies.

 

[jesse]

Kent, how do you know what you can get away with if you don't know the laws. Are you really getting away with something that is legal. I can't speak for you because I don't know you. The reverse is true as well, you can't speak of my knowledge, or lack thereof. Unless of course you have a greater power that I am unaware of. If this is the case please accept my apologies.

wtf are you talking about...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent, how do you know what you can get away with if you don't know the laws. Are you really getting away with something that is legal. I can't speak for you because I don't know you. The reverse is true as well, you can't speak of my knowledge, or lack thereof. Unless of course you have a greater power that I am unaware of. If this is the case please accept my apologies.

Victor,

My point was that simply because you are/were a professional driver does not make you an authority on traffic laws by any stretch of the imagination. Frankly, unless you work in law enforcement, the best authority on traffic laws is probably a 16-year-old who just finished Driver's Ed.

You seem to imply that if there is a left turn lane, and there is a green light for both directions of traffic (ie circle green for straight ahead, left-turn green is off, no left red light) that it's illegal to even enter the intersection to make a left turn. I disagree.

What happens if you are traveling down the left turn lane with the left light green, it turns yellow but you have too much speed to stop before the line, the opposing light turns green and you decide to stay in the intersection? What if opposing traffic does not allow you to make the turn until the main light turns yellow or even red?

(Why the heck are we arguing traffic laws on an aviation board? )

 

[Cap'n Jack]

<SNIP>
(Why the heck are we arguing traffic laws on an aviation board? )

Just being pro-active for the day that user fees, permanent TFRs, and NIMBY airport closures cause us to give up flying?

 

[JRitt]

Victor,
(Why the heck are we arguing traffic laws on an aviation board? )

Because we have to drive to the airport (well most do anyway)

 

[flyifrvfr]

Victor,

My point was that simply because you are/were a professional driver does not make you an authority on traffic laws by any stretch of the imagination. Frankly, unless you work in law enforcement, the best authority on traffic laws is probably a 16-year-old who just finished Driver's Ed.

You seem to imply that if there is a left turn lane, and there is a green light for both directions of traffic (ie circle green for straight ahead, left-turn green is off, no left red light) that it's illegal to even enter the intersection to make a left turn. I disagree.

What happens if you are traveling down the left turn lane with the left light green, it turns yellow but you have too much speed to stop before the line, the opposing light turns green and you decide to stay in the intersection? What if opposing traffic does not allow you to make the turn until the main light turns yellow or even red?

(Why the heck are we arguing traffic laws on an aviation board? )

I wouldn't call myself a authority on anything, but I do know traffic laws. Because of the high risk that is present in driving, it serves great purpose to be intimately familiar with traffic laws in the states you drive in. We are in a society where all too often people are all to happy to sue over anything. So in an accident, you better be certain that you know the laws or you will be held accountable. A few years ago, I was involved in a fatal tractor trailer accident. I knew the laws and made certain that I was not at risk of violating them.

In the example I provided, you can't enter an intersection unless you are reasonably sure that you can make the turn without having to stop. It is illegal to block intersections. If the intersection is served by a redlight camera, your light turns red, the camera will take your photo and a citation will be issued. This alone tells you that blocking an intersection is illegal. Otherwise all those redlight tickets under these circumstances would be void, yet they often hold up in court.

As far as the yellow light goes. The definition of a yellow light is stop if you can do so safely, if unable to safely stop, clear the intersection with caution. This does not excuse you if the light turns red as you are clearing the intersection.

 

[flyifrvfr]

wtf are you talking about...

Is this one of those cleaver ways of defeating the obsenity filter that Chuck was talking about?

 

[wsuffa]

As far as the yellow light goes. The definition of a yellow light is stop if you can do so safely, if unable to safely stop, clear the intersection with caution. This does not excuse you if the light turns red as you are clearing the intersection.

And that is not true in some states. In some states, it is not (or at least at the time I lived there it was not) legal to enter the intersection on the yellow.

YMMV.

 

[flyifrvfr]

And that is not true in some states. In some states, it is not (or at least at the time I lived there it was not) legal to enter the intersection on the yellow.

YMMV.

Maybe in a parallel world, but in this world in all states, it certainly is legal.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I see, must be a dialect thing - we'd a said, "I went through a red light";when he specified 'turned on a red' I figured a rt turn. I think it is illegal in some states?

Dave,

In 2005 we took a driving trip from Texas, up the Blue Ridge Parkway to NYC... in a Ford Expedition. Nobody told us that finding a place to park BIG rigs in NYC is nearly impossible, certainly expensive (you drive in, and they take your car upstairs in an ELEVATOR!), and the lanes are NARROW, especially on the bridges. I felt like I got permanent carpal tunnel from driving with my elbows pulled in for a week.

Anyway, to answer your question about it being illegal in other states to make a right turn on red... I found some GOOD web sites before we went that described NYC driving rules, and they are different.

1) No right turn on red. Period. Guaranteed ticket.

2) If you DO get stuck in an intersection by a light turning red, don't sit there... you're obligated to make a right turn onto the side street (or, left if it's a one-way going that direction).. Go around the block to try again to go your original direction.

3) Standing is not permitted. I've seen these signs in other cities ("No parking or standing.") I though it meant 'on my feet'. It doesn't. It's a NYC thing where, since parking is hard to come by, one person will get out of the car and go into the store, and the driver will 'stand' in the 2nd lane (alongside the parked cars) waiting for the other person to come out. (Idiots!)

Lots of other crazy stuff, but it prevents gridlock. You do have to drive assertive; if you're a "shy" driver, you'll go nowhere in NYC.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5342/nydrive.htm

http://www.ny.com/transportation/automobiles/cartips.html

 

[gismo]

In the example I provided, you can't enter an intersection unless you are reasonably sure that you can make the turn without having to stop.

This does not excuse you if the light turns red as you are clearing the intersection.

I checked both the driver's manal and the actual state statutes in Minnesota and Michigan for any support of either of your statements and found none. Can you supply text or links to an actual law stating that "you can't enter an intersection unless you are reasonbly sure (whatever that means) that you can make the turn without having to stop" or that you are violating the law if "light turns red as you are clearing the intersection".

The MN driver's manual does state that a driver should keep the wheels straight when stopping for a left turn which suggests that a left turn need not be completed without stopping.

 

[mikea]

Maybe in a parallel world, but in this world in all states, it certainly is legal.

Well in that case what purpose does the yellow light serve? If you're supposed to slam on your brakes when the yellow lights, you might as well just have it go from green to red.

Back to the thread topic, that is BTW, what happens with the intersections with the red light cameras as they randomly shorten the yellow light time to microseconds to drive revenue. SOK, with me I guess. When the guy rear ends me when I panic stop at the yellow I'm in the right because I was in front.

 

[mikea]

I checked both the driver's manal and the actual state statutes in Minnesota and Michigan for any support of either of your statements and found none. Can you supply text or links to an actual law stating that "you can't enter an intersection unless you are reasonbly sure (whatever that means) that you can make the turn without having to stop" or that you are violating the law if "light turns red as you are clearing the intersection".

The MN driver's manual does state that a driver should keep the wheels straight when stopping for a left turn which suggests that a left turn need not be completed without stopping.

Besides, if you operated that way anywhere within 75 miles of Chicago you'd never be able to turn left. As it is, the yupsters getting the green on on the intersecting street are not prone to wait until you clear the intersection. They certainly aren't going to wait to let you enter for your left turn in the first place.

The point is, we have CONSTANT never breaking traffic most days. If you were to wait until the oncoming traffic has a long enough break to ENTER the intersection, you'd wait until 4AM. The way it works with most courteous drivers, one or two vehicles are able to make a left turn waiting a car length in the intersection and crossing the opposite traffic lane when the oncoming traffic stops for the yellow (rarely) or red(or sometimes after allowing a few cars with Chicago wheels in them to run the red).