Recommendations for a cheap airplane

Mistake Not...

Mistake Not...

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Mistake Not...
Considering selling the mooney. Would like to keep flying... something... though. What's the lowest cost of ownership airplane that isn't an ultralight or sport plane?

I'm thinking a gently used 152, but I'm not familiar with anything other than that and a 172.

For me, right now, the biggest costs I have are insurance and annual. I'd still hangar it, but I'm hoping to free up some of the money I have in the plane for other purposes, and lower the yearly cost of ownership.

Suggestions?

Edit: Oh, and property tax. Between annual ($3500), insurance ($1200) and property tax ($600), I'm at $5300 / yr.
 
It's been more. Last one was $4300. But I'm assured that's just because I switched to a new mechanic, and they had to do research to re-verify AD compliance.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of ownership, I think. Add on hangar rent and we're to $7940, and I haven't flown a single hour yet.
 
Your annual costs four times what I pay, and your insurance is 50% higher.

Look for an A&P, and shop for a better insurance broker. Falcon has pretty good rates.

For inexpensive flying, try something classic like a Champ. Or go experimental for do-it-yourself maintenance and inexpensive parts & avionics.
 
When owners quote multi thousand dollar annuals this indicates the owner do a 13 month maintenance periods.
They defer all maintenance thru out the year, then add the upgraded equipment they want installed, then have it all repaired at shop rates and call that an annual.
I charge $500 for an annual inspection, I will open your aircraft inspect it IAW FAR 43-D and service it as required, close it up, and give you a list of discrepancies, and the appropriate sign off.
If you want me to repair the discrepancies, we make that arrangement prior to start. those hours are separate at $50 per hour. parts are on your CC.
 
Get a aeronca chief

Aeronca-11AC-Chief-VH-IDH-ECH-23-4-09.jpg


And taxation is theft
 
Tom-D said:
When owners quote multi thousand dollar annuals this indicates the owner do a 13 month maintenance periods.
They defer all maintenance thru out the year, then add the upgraded equipment they want installed, then have it all repaired at shop rates and call that an annual.
I charge $500 for an annual inspection, I will open your aircraft inspect it IAW FAR 43-D and service it as required, close it up, and give you a list of discrepancies, and the appropriate sign off.
If you want me to repair the discrepancies, we make that arrangement prior to start. those hours are separate at $50 per hour. parts are on your CC.
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It may in general, but it does not in my case.

The airplane has been as inexpensive as I could have hoped for. That's a $3500 annual with NOTHING WRONG. Nothing. Just regular maintenance items. Nothing deferred because "cant it wait until next year"?

As for insurance, I'm with Falcon. I don't know if it's hours, or experience or what. I have ~250 hours in the mooney at this point, no accidents and 500ish total hours. It's still $1200 / yr.

Experimental has always been an interest, but if I'm going that route, I'll build it rather than buy it. Maybe it's time to start thinking about that. Wonder how insurance compares on a homebuilt to what I have now.
 
Sell the mooney,take the money and rent ,you can then rent different aircraft. Let someone else worry about maint. And insurance.
 
Hank S said:
Your annual costs four times what I pay, and your insurance is 50% higher.

Look for an A&P, and shop for a better insurance broker. Falcon has pretty good rates.

For inexpensive flying, try something classic like a Champ. Or go experimental for do-it-yourself maintenance and inexpensive parts & avionics.
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I wish I could find a mechanic like that. I've tried two different places, one a known Mooney guy in the southeast. Both are expensive, and the mooney guy had the added cost of having to travel to take the plane over.

I just keep thinking... this has been with nothing wrong. Well, one year I had the encoding altimeter go out, but despite Tom-D's "13 month maintenance period" assumption, I don't see how I had anything to do with that and I had it fixed when discovered. That was $900 by itself. What's a year going to look like when I do have major work done?
 
frfly172 said:
Sell the mooney,take the money and rent ,you can then rent different aircraft. Let someone else worry about maint. And insurance.
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It's not a bad suggestion, but I rented for 20 years. It sucks... aircraft availability was a huge issue.

I'm thinking something like the chief or champ above, or maybe turn the mooney into a partnership.
 
asicer said:
Is E-AB an option?
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Maybe. It's been a long time since I looked into it. Back when I was thinking about it, I don't know how common the "come to the factory and we'll help you build it in a few weeks" options were. I think it's time to go to an EAA flyin and talk to some people.
 
How many hours do you fly? And what is the mission?
Are you willing to do a lot of own MX?
Is there a local A/P who will supervise you and let you do more of the work?

Overall, most Mooney planes are really simple. When you consider switching to A Cessna 152, you still have the engine, the inspection panels, A/D compliance.... You basically save money on the gear, and the per hour fuel flow. Which only matters if you are punching holes in the sky. If you are going someplace, on a per mile basis that 152 will likely cost more.

Tim
 
I fly 60-70 hours a year. The mission has been to fly to see family, which happens a couple of times a month and it's a ~200nm one way trip. That has been the major reason for the plane... I can have lunch with the parents and be back same day (It's a 6 hour trip in a car).

The two mechanics I talked to weren't thrilled about owner assisted maintenance. One flat out said he wouldn't allow it. Not sure why I keep having $3500 annuals with nothing wrong.

Point taken about still having the same sorts of issues, but if nothing else property tax would go way down on a $30k airplane compared to a $115k airplane. Insurance would too, right?
 
Outside of landing gear inspection/maintenance, I can’t see much savings in moving out of the Mooney. Maybe a bit on insurance due to the gear as well. It’s not as if engine maintenance or aircraft maintenance is appreciably more complex in a Mooney vs a 152. Mooneys are probably the most fuel efficient choice for your mission, too.


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Take a look at the American General AA1 Yankee. My dad had one and I learned to fly in when I was a kid. Many have a 150/hp conversion which makes them quite spunky.

MF
 
Mistake Not... said:
one a known Mooney guy in the southeast. Both are expensive, and the mooney guy had the added cost of having to travel to take the plane over.
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The known Mooney guy is expensive. We're using him right now as there is no other good local choice, but I do hate paying his price. We used to have a great local guy, annuals were consistently 1/3 the price of the Mooney guy, and we were not deferring anything. He got a permanent gig doing mx on the local air helo ambulances, and rarely takes on outside jobs.

I'd love to find a good local guy i can trust, but so far, no go.
 
This thread has been very helpful. When I bought, I went immediately for as much speed as my budget would allow. I completely ignored the lower end. Between the AA1, the chief and the pacer, it's obvious I don't have to quit flying completely and I can still have some fun.
 
For the record I had a Grumman Yankee AA1 with the standard engine. My annuals with nothing wrong were around 4-600 a year depending on who I had do it. Just liability insurance is 220/ year. 6 gph at cruise and can run car gas. Cheaper purchase price than most 150's and 152's. About the cheapest total cost of flying out there.
 
You're not going to get any cheaper than a mooney imo. Any A&P that can annual a 152 can annual a mooney for not a whole lot more. If you can't afford a mooney, you should rent. If you haven't flown an hour this year, rental availability isn't much of an issue.
 
The problem with renting for someone who doesn't fly often is most places require currency of 6 months or less. If you don't get a flight in that time period you have to get checked out again which is a pain.
 
Don't misunderstand the post... What I'm trying to say is, my fixed costs are $8k. I've flown lots this year. :)

But fly or not, the plane costs $8k just sitting there.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Don't misunderstand the post... What I'm trying to say is, my fixed costs are $8k. I've flown lots this year. :)

But fly or not, the plane costs $8k just sitting there.
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Got it. I did misunderstand. If you fly a lot, the mooney really is a cheap plane for what you get. Work harder to find an A&P that doesn't know mooneys but wants to learn them.
 
Grum.Man said:
For the record I had a Grumman Yankee AA1 with the standard engine. My annuals with nothing wrong were around 4-600 a year depending on who I had do it. Just liability insurance is 220/ year. 6 gph at cruise and can run car gas. Cheaper purchase price than most 150's and 152's. About the cheapest total cost of flying out there.
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that's awesome. Using those numbers, I'd save (3500 - 600) + (1200 - 220) = $3800 a year.
 
Grum.Man said:
The problem with renting for someone who doesn't fly often is most places require currency of 6 months or less. If you don't get a flight in that time period you have to get checked out again which is a pain.
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and costly. and annoying.
 
Mistake Not... said:
that's awesome. Using those numbers, I'd save (3500 - 600) + (1200 - 220) = $3800 a year.
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by getting 1 partner you can save even more than that! and even if you flew A TON in a year, the plane still sits a lot, so having 1 partner might keep the plane flying more while saving you cash and most likely not really running into scheduling issues.
 
I started with one partner, added a second, and then a third. Fixed cost/4 is the only reason I've remained an owner while battling medical stuff.
 
Mistake Not... said:
I fly 60-70 hours a year. The mission has been to fly to see family, which happens a couple of times a month and it's a ~200nm one way trip. That has been the major reason for the plane... I can have lunch with the parents and be back same day (It's a 6 hour trip in a car).

The two mechanics I talked to weren't thrilled about owner assisted maintenance. One flat out said he wouldn't allow it. Not sure why I keep having $3500 annuals with nothing wrong.

Point taken about still having the same sorts of issues, but if nothing else property tax would go way down on a $30k airplane compared to a $115k airplane. Insurance would too, right?
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Change your thinking. Look for a new mechanic near your destination. Have the annual done there and see what a difference in price is. It may involve a car trip or two; but it can be worth it. I have also shared MX flights with others to a remote mechanic. Reduced the number of car trips a fair amount.
I used to have a Cirrus SR20, the annual inspection was around $1,500 including the A/D research and oil change (required per the MX manual).
I think you are getting screwed locally. So it is time to look for a better MX solution, not a better plane.
Check with your insurance agent; but normally hull coverage runs about 1-2% of the value of the plane. Liability is separate.
So at a guess, selling the Mooney and getting a 152 will save you 500 bucks a year, but you will spend more than that in additional hours going 75 MPH versus 150 MPH when you go visit family.

Tim
 
Mistake Not... said:
that's awesome. Using those numbers, I'd save (3500 - 600) + (1200 - 220) = $3800 a year.
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Not sure where you're located but Wingnuts Aviation at Springfield Airport in TN has a great reputation and they work on all things Mooney. They are about 30 miles North of Nashville

MF
 
Currently alanta area, but Huntsville, AL.
 
Fly your plane to a mechanic who allows owner assist. Hotel if you need it. Or fly back on an airliner and return when it's done. I'd think the math could work out if you're at $3500 now.
 
the cheapest cost of ownership.....is more owners. Form a club and spread your expenses across others.

A C-150 or C-172 won't be all that much cheaper in and of itself.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Currently alanta area, but Huntsville, AL.
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Go to TN or AL for the annual and regular MX. Save locals for AOG issues.
The logiatics headaches will be worth the savings.

Tim

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Fly your plane to a mechanic who allows owner assist. Hotel if you need it. Or fly back on an airliner and return when it's done. I'd think the math could work out if you're at $3500 now.
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Interesting idea. :) Would never have thought of that.

Thank y'all, for all the commentary so far. This wasn't just about confirming a pre conceived idea...lots of experience on here and I'm happy to benefit from it. No easy decision for sure.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Currently alanta area, but Huntsville, AL.
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I grew up in Huntsville. My old man was a NASA type. Great town! If you were to take your plane the 130 miles or so up to M91 I may be able to give you a ride back home to HSV. Always looking for a reason to fly. If you keep the Mooney, Wingnuts might be worth looking into

MF
 
You just missed out on a FlyBaby for about $5000.

FWIW, my maintenance costs are the cost of parts (and, except for avionics and engine parts, I typically fabricate them myself) and a couple hundred or so for the annual condition inspection. Something on the order of an AMU per year would probably not be too far off a typical number - but shelling out for ADS-B out ($1400) will put me over either this or next year.

If I run it hard, I'm sucking up 4.5 gallons per hour (but not getting anywhere very fast). $3.23/ gallon at the corner gas station.

How many butts you gotta carry, and how fast do you need to carry them?
 
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