Really lost...now what.

MAKG, try flying in central or sw florida. It's a black hole out here. Unless you're scud running below 1000 feet you can't see anything most times at night. There's the occasional town or whatever but in the everglades or in the middle of the state the swampland on a moonless night is not visible, even with good night vision.

If you dimmed your panel lights or turned them off, you "might" be able to make something out, but definitively identifying it or using it for navigation? Forget about it...it's better to use GPS/VOR or 121.5.
 
If you're flying around at night without dimming your panel lights, you might as well be wearing peril sensitive sunglasses. You'll be flying like Ray Charles.

SOP. Dim the lights as low as you can and still make out what you need to. EVERY time. Especially things like Garmin GPS's (650s can be stupid bright) and iPads.

If I can make out North Bay swampland (and there are not a lot of lights up there -- swamps do not behave well in earthquake territory) on a moonless night at 4500, you should be able to make other swampland out under similar conditions.
 
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MAKG1 said:
It's not hard to see terrain at night, as long as you don't blast panel lights in your face. Even with no moon.
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I was referring more to finding a water tower, and reading the name on it. And if you ever fly in the flat lands, there ain't much in the way of terrain. Looks pretty much the same from from Indiana to Denver.
 
Assuming you have an iPhone, open the compass app. It displays the name of the city (and state) you are over, your heading, lat, long and altitude. If you are really on your game you might have started a timer or at least written down the time of departure. Now you also know how long you've been airborne. There are other ways to extract time in flight from an iPhone if you didn't. I suspect it's not much different on an android.
 
wrbix said:
Communicate
Confess (not sure I'd mention the falling asleep part)
Comply.
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And "Climb" - gets a little better big-picture visibility. But the OP scenario was night, 10k feet.

My CFI always added "Circle: no sense in getting even more lost."

I wonder how many times a day a center gets the "where am I?" call. Probably way more than they should.
 
EdFred said:
Let's use Nick's 'problem', I've fallen asleep for a few hours, call it 3-4. So I could be in a 1,130,973 sq mile area. (150kts at 4 hours = 600nm radius) Which VOR or ADF am I tuning into? Shouldn't take me too long to go through the 200 VOR frequencies to try and get a match.

The only 'real' answer is call 121.5 and ask where you are. Of course, that's assuming that you are within reach of someone on 121.5 If the flight started on the east or west coast and you went east of west respectively, you might not be heard. Same goes for the middle of nowhere Canada, or Mexico, or...

Which VOR's are you tuning into again?
Click to expand...

A couple of minutes' worth of DR calculations should give you a REALLY good idea of which VORs to try.
 
MauleSkinner said:
A couple of minutes' worth of DR calculations should give you a REALLY good idea of which VORs to try.
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That's assuming my plane held a constant heading for the entire time I was asleep AND I'm within VOR range.
 
EdFred said:
That's assuming my plane held a constant heading for the entire time I was asleep AND I'm within VOR range.
Click to expand...

I've had planes hold heading for more than an hour WITHOUT an autopilot while I slept...:dunno:

If it wasnt stable enough to hold a heading, odds are it spiraled into the ground rather than ended up at 10k.
 
EdFred said:
That's assuming my plane held a constant heading for the entire time I was asleep AND I'm within VOR range.
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This whole thread is full of arbitrary assumptions.

Like, the airplane has an autopilot. In reality, without that, the airplane will drift into a spiral dive and you'll be dead, long before you go far enough afield for this "really lost" scenario to be relevant.

It's contrived, so all the solutions are going to be contrived, too.
 
Well I'd just have Scotty arbitrarily beam me where I wanted to be. Problem solved.
 
You "unlost" your self the same way you used to radio navigate before gps.

Preferably I'd use the ADF in a secondary manner since the ones I've used before seems so fickle at times.

1) point to last known location on the sectional.
2) move approximately (airspeed * HoursAsleep) miles on the map. Rough guess is fine.
3) Tune the closest VOR. If good ID. If not pick another nearby VOR and repeat.
4) Find the radial heading away from VOR that you center on and mark on sectional.
5) Did the radial come close to your initial guestimate? If yes, great. If not, it doesn't matter.
6) Center the VOR once more "to" the VOR and change course.
7) If you're confident in your ADF and your ability, pick NBDs within reasonable range of your radial until u get one. otherwise skip to step 9
8) The inverse of the bearing to the NDB should intersect the VOR radial you are on. That's your location. go to step 12
9) So you hate your ADF. After correcting for crosswinds hold your course as best you can.
10) Tune to another VOR within range of your radial, ID, and center on an "away" radial. Do not change course.
11) Draw a line from that VOR. If they intersect that is your location. Quickly tune back to the previous VOR & radial.

12) It's been few hours. Chances are you're about to become a glider. Call in a favor from your deity then aviate like your life depends on it, cause more likely than not, it does.
 
Pi1otguy said:
You "unlost" your self the same way you used to radio navigate before gps.

Preferably I'd use the ADF in a secondary manner since the ones I've used before seems so fickle at times.

1) point to last known location on the sectional.
2) move approximately (airspeed * HoursAsleep) miles on the map. Rough guess is fine.
3) Tune the closest VOR. If good ID. If not pick another nearby VOR and repeat.
4) Find the radial heading away from VOR that you center on and mark on sectional.
5) Did the radial come close to your initial guestimate? If yes, great. If not, it doesn't matter.
6) Center the VOR once more "to" the VOR and change course.
7) If you're confident in your ADF and your ability, pick NBDs within reasonable range of your radial until u get one. otherwise skip to step 9
8) The inverse of the bearing to the NDB should intersect the VOR radial you are on. That's your location. go to step 12
9) So you hate your ADF. After correcting for crosswinds hold your course as best you can.
10) Tune to another VOR within range of your radial, ID, and center on an "away" radial. Do not change course.
11) Draw a line from that VOR. If they intersect that is your location. Quickly tune back to the previous VOR & radial.

12) It's been few hours. Chances are you're about to become a glider. Call in a favor from your deity then aviate like your life depends on it, cause more likely than not, it does.
Click to expand...

This is a great answer.
 
This will NEVER happen to me.

I am always careful to set my alarm to 30 minutes, before all naps.
 
SkyHog said:
This is a great answer.
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Sadly, chances are this hypothetical pilot is dead or worse, ... will have a number to call upon landing. In my neck of the woods, SoCal, he probably busted C & B space during the climb. Probably headed out to the Ocean or busting Naval or Air force r-space.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I did my solo XC from Napa to Fresno and back. It was hard to get very lost, you could see Mount Diablo the whole way.

But I get it, in the Midwest everything looks the same in some areas.
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+1 My first was from Concord to Salinas and Paso Robles. Gotta love flying down the valleys. Hard to get totally lost.
 
You have an ADF* and it's night? Crank in a couple of 50 kw clear channel AM broadcast stations and triangulate. If you're west of the Rockies, KFI 640 (Los Angeles), KNBR 680 (San Francisco), KIRO 710 (Seattle) and/or KSL 1160 (Salt Lake City) should get you started. That should narrow it down enough to find a friendly neighborhood VOR.

*and it works?!! :eek:
 
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I knew a guy, a friend of my father, actually, who did fly past his destination and become lost.

This happened >45 years ago, he didn't fall asleep, and it wasn't dark. He did manage to fly almost 100 miles past his destination, though.

Today, this person would probably be considered autistic, or at least as being somewhere on the Asperger's spectrum. If he became fixated on one thing the rest of the world pretty much disappeared to him.

Our hero was training for the IR. He would fly his Tri-Pacer about 100 miles south of his farm to KGTF early in the morning and take an hour or so of dual from his CFII, then fly back to his farm. He had a wing leveler which he would engage in cruise and spend the trip home studying for the written. One day, he became so engrossed in his reading that he flew past his farm and continued north for almost an hour. Since his farm was only about 30 miles south of the Canadian border he was somewhere west of Medicine Hat when he finally looked outside.

Being pretty familiar with the area, it didn't take him long to figure out which way was home, and he had enough fuel, so he just ended up with a good story. He also realized that he probably wasn't well suited for instrument flying and quit training. He did keep flying the Tri-Pacer, which he had bought new in 1960, for many years (usually at less than 1000' AGL).

Mark
 
I know someone who became lost in a 172 at night, ran out of fuel, crashed and died. Texas, over 10 years ago.
 
If I found out I was over water I'd just climb to 12500 and try 121.5

Over the dessert or open area with nothing in sight and no answer, I'd land and switch on the ELT.

Everything else, it's pretty easy to get a call back on 121.5 and go from there.

Oh, aren't there the "3 C's" for this.

I think it's: Contact - Confess - Comply
 
Zeldman said:
Have you seen any of the arrows on the ground that used to be part of the lighted airway system between Gallup and Albuquerque? There is one old arrow about a mile off the approach end of 24 at Gallup, just about 100 -200 feet south of the interstate. It is very hard to see, but once you find it then it really stands out.
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Yeah, and there is another at the automotive entrance to Grants.
Can't tell you how many times I've flown there and never seen it.
Once it was brought to my attention it does stand out.

Sadly, I haven't seen the Albuquerque one yet. Gallup and Grants, yes
 
Pi1otguy said:
1) point to last known location on the sectional.
2) move approximately (airspeed * HoursAsleep) miles on the map. Rough guess is fine.
3) Tune the closest VOR. If good ID. If not pick another nearby VOR and repeat.
4) Find the radial heading away from VOR that you center on and mark on sectional.
5) Did the radial come close to your initial guestimate? If yes, great. If not, it doesn't matter.
6) Center the VOR once more "to" the VOR and change course.
7) If you're confident in your ADF and your ability, pick NBDs within reasonable range of your radial until u get one. otherwise skip to step 9
8) The inverse of the bearing to the NDB should intersect the VOR radial you are on. That's your location. go to step 12
9) So you hate your ADF. After correcting for crosswinds hold your course as best you can.
10) Tune to another VOR within range of your radial, ID, and center on an "away" radial. Do not change course.
11) Draw a line from that VOR. If they intersect that is your location. Quickly tune back to the previous VOR & radial.
Click to expand...


Do CFIs not do this with students anymore?
 
At 10K at night around here (9K AGL), if you start clicking on 122.8 you should see a lot of airports light up. Another advantage of being in flatland/fly-over country is that airport beacons can be seen a long, long way off.

One thing I've run into is that automated weather at some non-towered airports will start broadcasting on the CTAF freq when you trigger the airport lights. Sometimes that broadcast is from an airport 20-30 miles away. But at least it's going to give you an idea of where you are, within 20-30 miles.

If you have somehow time-warped to an unknown location, several hours from where you started, and have no idea which direction you were flying during that time, or even if you are on the same sectional, then tuning in a VOR might be a little tough.
 
I got turned around on a solo xc flight a few weeks after I got my private ticket.
Once I wrestled the panic back into its box finding myself was pretty straight forward.
It was daytime and I knew OKC was probably NE of my location which gave me a sector of the sectional to look at. Then I noticed a river. Not too many rivers in SW Oklahoma so that narrowed it even further. Pretty soon I had followed that river to Noble and realized I was almost back home again. Turned around again and set off for my original destination but now running about a half hour late. I had no flight plan and never told on myself until much later. My CFI just nodded sagely and said "I bet you don't ever do that again." and that was the end of it.
I'm not sure how we all survived the era before Google and GPS availability for everyone.
 
I wonder why they don't have a squawk code for "lost."

"Aircraft squawking 8800, you are four miles Northeast of Porterville Airport. Suggest you head one niner zero."
 
Sac Arrow said:
I wonder why they don't have a squawk code for "lost."

"Aircraft squawking 8800, you are four miles Northeast of Porterville Airport. Suggest you head one niner zero."
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Yeah, except transponders only go to 7. Although I bet the one on Spinal Tap's tour plane went to 8.
 
So I fell asleep, have no idea where I am, and the airplane managed to fly itself and not spiral into the ground during those couple hours? Well I'm either on autopilot or I'm damn lucky.

If I'm on autopilot, what mode was I in? If I was in heading mode well then I have a really good idea where I'm at and it won't take me more then a minute or two to find my precise location.

If I was tracking to a fix, well I'm probably pretty near that fix :)

If I wasn't on autopilot - it's incredibly unlikely the airplane cruised straight and true for hours without issue. Most airplanes will enter a spiraling descent after some amount of time of no control input. However maybe this one was really special. If it's still flying straight when I wake up I know where I am...X amount of time in that direction from where I fell asleep... If it's not flying straight then it was probably just going in a circle and I'm roughly right over top of where I fell asleep.

If you're totally confused and don't know what to do, time to jump on 121.5 and they'll find you.

If your radios all crapped out, your five or six GPS systems you have all crapped out, and you have no technology at all... Pick a direction - north, south, east, or west. Wait till you run into a major coast/highway/interstate/river/railroad. Follow it. Land when you find an airport. If you think you're going to run out of gas then land somewhere safely, preferably near people, which you should have found using the above coast/highway/interstate/river/railroad method.
 
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If it happened to me I'd land on the first practicable surface and never fly and airplane again, since I would know I was suffering narcolepsy and was unsafe to do so.

I've heard of pressurized aircraft loosing the seal and rendering everyone unconscious. I did read about one that kept going until it ran out of fuel, and glided itself to a landing in a field. Guys fell asleep in an airplane in the sky and woke up in an airplane in a field.
 
Pilawt said:
If you're squawking 8800, being lost is not your only problem ...

:D
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Good catch.

Earlier this year I got a squawk code that was supposed to be reserved (I can't remember right now what it was, but I'm pretty sure all four digits were the same - maybe it was even 7777?). Apparently, when the controller went on break and the new controller took over, there was a little bit of a kerfluffle in Center for a couple of minutes. One of the advantages of living next door to a center controller is hearing about things like this when you get home.
 
steingar said:
If it happened to me I'd land on the first practicable surface and never fly and airplane again, since I would know I was suffering narcolepsy and was unsafe to do so.

I've heard of pressurized aircraft loosing the seal and rendering everyone unconscious. I did read about one that kept going until it ran out of fuel, and glided itself to a landing in a field. Guys fell asleep in an airplane in the sky and woke up in an airplane in a field.
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It might not be narcolepsy, you might just be on your way back to Florida from NY after an exhausting, dehydrating weekend.
 
I used to do this years ago with an early version of MS Flight Sim. I'd take off from Chicago in a 172 with unlimited fuel, roll out on a heading and trim for level cruise. Then I'd let the computer run many hours or all day, come back and try to figure out where it was.
 
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