I bounced the champ a few times when I started. The instructor, an old pro, would add a little throttle, play with the stick and land it. He never went around. Later, having watched carefully what he had done, I saved four or five bounced landings in the Stearman , cross wind, etc. By doing the same thing, never went around. I think , if you know the airplane well , calming a bad landing down is not big deal. Again, the tail wheel instruction and subsequent many hours in one proved invaluable to me later on. I landed the mooney almost exactly the way I land the champ. Same when I was given the opportunity to land a shrike several times.
Yes of course they can...Can't they be landed full stall,
A cushion would do the trick but would require getting rid of my Rosen visors to make it work. If I crane my neck to see over the glareshield my headset tends to hit the visor's mounting bracket, unless it's moved full left out of the way.and in your case get a booster seat?
Not sure what I wrote that made you think I was saying otherwise...I would think the Cardinal can be flared full stall like any other trike. Never flown one, but a flying stabilizer is pretty effective in the Cher 140.
Yes, trying to force the plane onto the runway. Shaka, when the walls fell...That looked like fine technique. Just the way I would want to see it and hear it. The stabilator doesn't move much - but the critical thing is, it moves in the right direction. pretty sure the guy I watched pushed forward, not back.
Not sure what I wrote that made you think I was saying otherwise...
BTW, not to criticize Brian's technique, but I can't really get anything out of that video with the camera pointed rearward. Maybe I'm missing something.The part where you said you bounce it on fairly often, or words to that effect. Sounds like poor technique and excuses to me, after seeing Brians vid.
Bad judgement of height above runway. Flaring too late or too early. Too late results in a flat landing that can also bounce. That's the kind that leads to PIO if not remedied immediately. Too early and I stall too high, requiring addition of power to avoid hitting the mains hard.
I land Cardinals nearly every week and they land great - as long as you know how to land them. I can get a greaser nearly every time even with crosswinds - but you have to be smooth and not be afraid to be a bit nose high on the landing. One of the pilots that flies with me when we are doing photo work finally broke his PIOs recently and stopped the multiple little movements that were destroying his landings. He's landing it about as well as I do now and it's a lot more fun.A number of years ago a pilot at my airfield was landing a new to him Cardinal and got into a PIO. Went off the runway and ran into a road grader parked in the grass on the other side of the parallel taxiway. Survived with severe burns. Must be something with the cardinal's all flying stabilator that makes PIOs easy to get into for newbys. I've seem to have seen a number of incidents peculialr to Cardinals involving loss of control on landing.
A number of years ago a pilot at my airfield was landing a new to him Cardinal and got into a PIO. Went off the runway and ran into a road grader parked in the grass on the other side of the parallel taxiway. Survived with severe burns. Must be something with the cardinal's all flying stabilator that makes PIOs easy to get into for newbys. I've seem to have seen a number of incidents peculialr to Cardinals involving loss of control on landing.
As a low time pilot (immediately post-PPL) my instructor checked me out in a Cardinal. I had been flying a 150 the whole time but we had done a couple of xc's in the 177. I took it around the pattern and the sight picture was so different combined with poor airspeed control that it caused me to bounce once. Surprised, I bounced again then immediately recognized PIO and poured on the coals.
I've never forgotten that and have promised myself one day I will tackle that particular demon. There's a groove you get with your own airplane and I have that with my 172. I love the 177 so I'd like to make up for my ham-fistedness one day.
BTW, not to criticize Brian's technique, but I can't really get anything out of that video with the camera pointed rearward. Maybe I'm missing something.
I've done many, many landings with the mains kissing the runway followed several seconds by the nose coming down gently. Requires good airspeed control, and actually full flaps helps, IME. I don't understand why he uses partial flaps only - I assume "one-third flaps" means 10 degrees?
Okay -- that's very possible. I don't think I've ever seen a '68, much less flown one. Mine is a '76 RG, different bird except they both are strutless and have that powerful stabilator.There's a big difference between the thin winged '68 and the fat wings of the later airplanes with full flaps. I feel that at full flaps (30 degrees) in the 68 is closer to critical angle of attack and on a normal properly trimmed poweroff glide its hard to flare without running out of energy. It mushes and gets very draggy as you get closer & closer to critical AOA. Pulling nose up hard with the big stabiliator is like a speed brake making the (power off full-flaps) energy issue more complicated. Using power helps but not something I normally do. Dad likes to use a blimp of power.
Okay -- that's very possible. I don't think I've ever seen a '68, much less flown one. Mine is a '76 RG, different bird except they both are strutless and have that powerful stabilator.
I'm also in the "touch of power" camp, though if need be I can dead stick it.
... 'bam!' bounced it on the nose gear, then the mains hit, then it all went back up again and came down on the nose again, then it ballooned...
There's a big difference between the thin winged '68 and the fat wings of the later airplanes with full flaps. I feel that at full flaps (30 degrees) in the 68 is closer to critical angle of attack and on a normal properly trimmed poweroff glide its hard to flare without running out of energy. It mushes and gets very draggy as you get closer & closer to critical AOA. Pulling nose up hard with the big stabiliator is like a speed brake making the (power off full-flaps) energy issue more complicated. Using power helps but not something I normally do. Dad likes to use a blimp of power.
Also, I'm pretty sure the first 800 or so serial numbers have a longer nose strut tube than the later ones, meaning the nose gear sticks out further unloaded making three points or nose firsts more likely.
It's easy to bend the firewall in a Cardinal, even with no external signs of damage.
Basically all i ever do as an instructor to stop someone from totaling an airplane is grab the yoke and hold it back to the stops.
With ground effect you'd be shocked how well this works even if it seems like you have absolutely no energy.
Some think you can bounce by just being high on the flare. The bounce comes from landing on the nose wheel first.
Being high just results in a thud or harder set down, but the mains won't bounce unless you are fast and start to fly again.
If you start to fly again then level out and set down again with nose up flare. If you bounce from the nose wheel first then you have a go-around.
I was over putting some wax on the bird, and it was breezy and a bit unstable. Saw a Cardinal coming in, looked high on appr but makeable. Sadly, he was also fast due to the gusty wind, almost down the runway. Well, he passed the threshold by a good bit, and was past half way down before he pushed the nose down and 'bam!' bounced it on the nose gear, then the mains hit, then it all went back up again and came down on the nose again, then it ballooned and started to settle back as he was 3/4 down the runway. Lucky at that point he gave up, pushed the power back in and slogged back in the air for another try.
Second attempt was much better. In fact, it was pretty flat, pulled the power out over the numbers, decent flare, touched the mains and it all stuck.
I was sure the first one was going in the weeds, and then the back yard off the end of the runway today. I really wish pilots would take some TW training, or just go back to basics of energy mgmt. It was sad to watch that. And I find out later this person is a inst student! Gulp...
That's Chuck Hanna's website! He probably knows about as much as there is to know about 150s. Resident pro at the type club website.
The part where you said you bounce it on fairly often, or words to that effect. Sounds like poor technique and excuses to me, after seeing Brians vid.
I run out of ruddervator travel when I'm forward CG and full flaps as well, but I can still put it on the mains with decent handling of the elevator. Comanche is well known for coming in flat on the deck as well. Challenging plane to get landing consistent. I guess the Card is similar then.
Part of the issue with the Comanche is that it stops flying all at once.
That and when sitting level on its gear, it's already 4 degrees nose up. So you have to raise the nose that much further on landing.
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PA24s have always been quite docile in my experience.