Ramp fees?

[timwinters]

I think that post 11 min ago is completely out of line and should be pulled.

Thanks. I logged 5.5 hours, dancing around thunderstorms all day long including a diversion to MO84 where I sat on the ground for 1+30---talking with a local cop who thought I was running drugs since NO ONE lands at that airport---waiting for thunderstorms to get out of my way at H88. But I stayed safe and completed the trip and gave four dogs a new lease on life

Only to come here and put up with **** from some unknown internet dipwad who wants to hammer me for doing exactly what I was told to do by the girl behind the counter that I should do!

An internet dipwad who's not even I pilot I believe.

No apologies. If you're sensitive to that sort of post then join a knitting forum.

But this makes it worth it regardless of what the dipwad peanut gallery here spews:

 

[Clip4]

I strongly believe that any public use airport should have a free tarmac with access beyond airport property. You want tie-downs? Bring them. You want cold bottled water, popcorn, Otis Spunkmeyer cookies? The FBO is right over there to do business with.

I strongly believe your city should provide free parking for my car, free dock space for my boat, a free golf cart at the community course and a free hangar.

 

[Hawka]

Thanks. I logged 5.5 hours, dancing around thunderstorms all day long including a diversion to MO84 where I sat on the ground for 1+30---talking with a local cop who thought I was running drugs since NO ONE lands at that airport---waiting for thunderstorms to get out of my way at H88. But I stayed safe and completed the trip and gave four dogs a new lease on life

Only to come here and put up with **** from some unknown internet dipwad who wants to hammer me for doing exactly what I was told to do by the girl behind the counter that I should do!

An internet dipwad who's not even I pilot I believe.

No apologies. If you're sensitive to that sort of post then join a knitting forum.

But this makes it worth it regardless of what the dipwad peanut gallery here spews:

It's okay. We get it. You love dogs. I have two myself. But don't put dogs ahead of people.

 

[NoHeat]

.

No apologies. If you're sensitive to that sort of post then join a knitting forum.

You cursed someone using the f word in this forum. And that is absolutely crossing the line. I pointed it out. You edited your post to delete the f word curse. And now you attack me?

 

[timwinters]

It's okay. We get it. You love dogs. I have two myself. But don't put dogs ahead of people.

You keep insinuating that I stole something. I did not. The girl inside said there is no ramp fee if I was there for less than 20 minutes, which I was. The guys outside said there was no ramp fee for compassion flights, which I was.

So what exactly did I steal? My point was to rebut Levy's earlier statement in this thread that fees are almost always conspicuously posted. I've never seen one but admittedly, I avoid airports like this...precisely because of what I experienced today.

But don't put dogs ahead of people.

That's sad. I've found almost all "well-heeled" dogs to be loyal, trustworthy and honest.

I've found almost no humans to be so, with the "well-heeled" being the least so.

Given the choice I'll take dogs any day.

 

[Morgan3820]

I like dogs. Most people like my dog. Avoid people who do not like dogs. Why would a normal person not like a dog?

I'm thinking that this thread has run its course. Still didn't get a good answer, but i will infer one from the lack thereof.

Thanks for playing

 

[MtnMarcus]

Atlantic isn't always bad, however, some of my worst FBO stories involve Atlantic.

My all time worst FBO story was calling in range to KSUN. Can't get them on the radio because they are in a Vally (which presumably has sun) so I call them on the Sat Phone. My co-pilot and I are starving as it's been a long day. With a tight turn coming up I figured we could have them order a pizza while we're 15 minutes out and it'd arrive just after we got there.

Get queen biatch on the phone and ask if there's a pizza joint that will deliver a pizza to the FBO. She says she can give me a list of phone numbers if I like. I explain I'm flying a plane and it'd be super handy if she'd please make the call. We just want a large pepperoni pizza with sausage.

She puts me on hold for a full 4 to 5 minutes. Comes back and says she has no way to pay them. I said we'll be there by the time the guy gets there to which she finds another problem. Back on hold I go. I waited for a couple minutes and then hung up stopping the phone bill at I'd guess the $80 mark.

We land and this cnut starts yelling at me for hanging up on her! Like I got nothing better to do at 20,000 feet than sit on hold for her to figure out how to order a pizza like EVERY OTHER FBO IVE EVER ASKED has been able to do with no problem.

Since then every fuel order I've ever placed at KSUN has been for min fuel. Screw their stupid Atlantic Bucks!

Call me next time. I live 5 minutes from the airport

 

[N747JB]

In my case KSOP does have a temporary tower, but I was overnight and bought fuel, I wouldn't skip out on the ramp charges, even if I didn't buy fuel. I will rethink my strategy fir visiting in laws in the future!

This is the kind of thing i was wondering about. As an uncontrolled field, what is there to stop the poster from getting in his plane and flying away, never to return?

 

[dell30rb]

I strongly believe your city should provide free parking for my car, free dock space for my boat, a free golf cart at the community course and a free hangar.

Parking is free except downtown where the congestion makes things difficult


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Z06_Mir]

Bullpoop. I rarely see this at most places I go to. ESPECIALLY those who charge ramp fees. Landmark or Signature wouldn't do anything so gauche (or obvious) like posting the fees or even how much fuel is going for. Some smaller FBOs might list the rental/fuel prices, but most likely they aren't charging the gouge fee.

There is this thing called a phone, where you can ask what fees are applicable to your aircraft. The big name place I worked at also had fuel prices posted at the counter an accurately online. We also had a super convenient program where we could punch in the tail and it would give all fees, minimum fuel, what we could do for bonus points and what kinds of services that aircraft could even take (lav, water). There was a paper book for it too that the older ladies generally preferred. It was easy and standardized.

No problem. Join up over at horribleFBOsofamerica.com and read her post.

Seriously, there's not much to the story. I don't treat FBO staff poorly. I tip. I smile and I have many CSRs across the country that know me by name and greet me warmly when I walk in.

I wasn't some jerk calling in demanding a pizza. I was a hungry line pilot asking for a little help getting the crew fed so we could make the tight turn and get our peeps out on time. Every single person is working for the same goal ultimately...to move the passengers on time. I've never had a problem at any other FBO with the request to order a pizza.

I've long thought about making a website where us FBO employees could rant and rave about pilots. I'd have at least a story a day.

I don't get the much, much larger fee for jets and turboprops. I show up with my little 4 seater and pay nothing, or nearly so. But some jet shows up and pays a couple hundred for only slightly more effort on the FBO's part. What's the rational beyond "they have the money"? Is there one? Is the jet really demanding that much more service than I am? I would think the possibly of the larger plane buying a ton of fuel (perhaps literally) would make up for any additional hassle they might otherwise cause.

Because simply put jets are more work. When your 182 pulls up we know you don't have 4 rental cars that need to go out to the airplane. We know you won't need 7 bags of ice like the Global next to you. You won't need a GPU for start like the Eclipse or the King Air. Not to mention you're small and we can fit you anywhere. Have you ever played airplane Tetris?

Unfortunately the larger the aircraft the less fuel they tend to need. They buy at their home base where they get it for cheaper. More often than not the gulfstream and globals don't take fuel because they don't need it. But they still need to accommodate their passengers needs and we can't do it for free, or for the same price as a couple people in apeven a king air.





As you all can probably tell this is something I'm incredibly passionate about. My entire adult life, and even as a teen, I've worked in this industry. This industry is the reason I waited so long to learn to fly... I didn't want to be one of "those" pilots.

 

[N747JB]

Shockingly this thread drifted a bit from your original question! But, here's the simple answer, the FBO can force you to pay ramp fees but either blocking your plane or billing you if you skip out. If you don't pay the invoice, they have the option of legal collection, including liens and judgements etc, I doubt it would ever go that far, but who knows??

I like dogs. Most people like my dog. Avoid people who do not like dogs. Why would a normal person not like a dog?

I'm thinking that this thread has run its course. Still didn't get a good answer, but i will infer one from the lack thereof.

Thanks for playing

 

[timwinters]

You cursed someone using the f word in this forum. And that is absolutely crossing the line. I pointed it out. You edited your post to delete the f word curse.

You're right and I want to apologize to all the members here for my outburst last night. Well, everyone except the dipwad, Hockey, who repeatedly accused me of being a thief. To you I say f.......awwww...never mind.

 

[DJTorrente]

I strongly believe your city should provide free parking for my car, free dock space for my boat, a free golf cart at the community course and a free hangar.

I think every poilot's payment of the aviation fuel excise tax, spread nationwide, vs. your zero contribution to my local municipality tax base justifies a different position.

 

[Hawka]

You're right and I want to apologize to all the members here for my outburst last night. Well, everyone except the dipwad, Hockey, who repeatedly accused me of being a thief. To you I say f.......awwww...never mind.

On behalf of all present, I accept your apology.

I was not calling you a thief. Did I use that word? Freeloader maybe.

 

[timwinters]

On behalf of all present, I accept your apology.

I was not calling you a thief. Did I use that word? Freeloader maybe.

Same difference.

And as far as vulgarities being offensive; I find it far more offensive to be accused of being a thief than it is when someone drops the F bomb.

But that's just me. Maybe I'm just uncultured. (thankfully)

 

[Hawka]

Same difference.

And as far as vulgarities being offensive; I find it far more offensive to be accused of being a thief than it is when someone drops the F bomb.

But that's just me. Maybe I'm just uncultured. (thankfully)

I appear to have struck a raw nerve. I am truly sorry for that. There is nothing wrong with getting free stuff or services. All I am saying is that you should smile and not complain about it that is all.

 

[jordane93]

I've actually never had a bad FBO. I'll get fuel most, if not all the time so they'll usually waive the fee. When I went to Million Air at ALB they treated me like I was a G-V pilot, were friendly, helpful, professional, and really nice. I got to use their new 2014 Mercedes E350 crew car to get some breakfast!

 

[Captain]

You also got to pay for that crew car via fuel price and facility fees. Nothing is free.

I like MillionAir. Probably my favorite of the chain FBO's. But all those perks cost money and I feel it when I pay my bill.

The only fee that really gets my goat is the new 'security fee' that seems all the craze. $5 to $15 tacked on for...what? What exactly does that cover? Same damn door, same staff, same everything. Do I feel any safer now that I pay the fee? No.

I would actually feel better about it and get a chuckle if they just told the truth and called it what it is, how about a;

"because we can fee"? , or

"an extra fee you have to pay because we determined people are lemmings and security is like internet child porn in that nobody will dare argue against it no matter how blatantly stupid some new procedure is...fee"?

 

[jordane93]

You also got to pay for that crew car via fuel price and facility fees. Nothing is free.

I like MillionAir. Probably my favorite of the chain FBO's. But all those perks cost money and I feel it when I pay my bill.

The only fee that really gets my goat is the new 'security fee' that seems all the craze. $5 to $15 tacked on for...what? What exactly does that cover? Same damn door, same staff, same everything. Do I feel any safer now that I pay the fee? No.

I would actually feel better about it and get a chuckle if they just told the truth and called it what it is, how about a;

"because we can fee"? , or

"an extra fee you have to pay because we determined people are lemmings and security is like internet child porn in that nobody will dare argue against it no matter how blatantly stupid some new procedure is...fee"?

Ah yes, the famous "security fee." Its absolute garbage

 

[Clip4]

Parking is free except downtown where the congestion makes things difficult


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point, at uncontrolled fields you could just pull your plane off in the grass and not use the ramp.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't get the much, much larger fee for jets and turboprops. I show up with my little 4 seater and pay nothing, or nearly so. But some jet shows up and pays a couple hundred for only slightly more effort on the FBO's part. What's the rational beyond "they have the money"? Is there one? Is the jet really demanding that much more service than I am? I would think the possibly of the larger plane buying a ton of fuel (perhaps literally) would make up for any additional hassle they might otherwise cause.

They often do demand additional services (Ice, call for catering, arranged ground transportation, etc.) but they also are often the cheapest of the bunch - They'll use all your services and buy no fuel if they can, despite always having plenty of room in the tanks. Not exactly the same is you showing up in a 172 from 1/2 hour away and only being able to take 4 gallons...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've actually never had a bad FBO. I'll get fuel most, if not all the time so they'll usually waive the fee. When I went to Million Air at ALB they treated me like I was a G-V pilot, were friendly, helpful, professional, and really nice. I got to use their new 2014 Mercedes E350 crew car to get some breakfast!

That's like saying "I've never had a bad hotel, I just stayed in the Waldorf-Astoria and it was great." That is to say, that Million Air at KALB is the best FBO I've ever been to. An absolutely amazing facility, friendly staff, a room where I was able to stay overnight for free, and the cheapest fuel in the state when I was there. I'd return in a heartbeat.

 

[denverpilot]

You also got to pay for that crew car via fuel price and facility fees. Nothing is free.



I like MillionAir. Probably my favorite of the chain FBO's. But all those perks cost money and I feel it when I pay my bill.



The only fee that really gets my goat is the new 'security fee' that seems all the craze. $5 to $15 tacked on for...what? What exactly does that cover? Same damn door, same staff, same everything. Do I feel any safer now that I pay the fee? No.



I would actually feel better about it and get a chuckle if they just told the truth and called it what it is, how about a;



"because we can fee"? , or



"an extra fee you have to pay because we determined people are lemmings and security is like internet child porn in that nobody will dare argue against it no matter how blatantly stupid some new procedure is...fee"?

I love paying the $5 "9/11 Security Fee" on every airline ticket. It makes me feel all warm and gooey.

 

[wsuffa]

I love paying the $5 "9/11 Security Fee" on every airline ticket. It makes me feel all warm and gooey.

It just went up

 

[Captain]

They often do demand additional services (Ice, call for catering, arranged ground transportation, etc.) but they also are often the cheapest of the bunch - They'll use all your services and buy no fuel if they can, despite always having plenty of room in the tanks. Not exactly the same is you showing up in a 172 from 1/2 hour away and only being able to take 4 gallons...

This post takes it. Shows a complete bias and lack of understanding of aviation.

First, when you say 'demand ice' that throws a spin on it that everyone knows isn't there. Nobody slams there fist on the counter and declares they must have a bag of ice or else. They instead ask for a bag of ice 99.9999% of the time.

Also, its not like its free. With ramp and facility fees the cost of ice is covered.

So, why would you come here and say jet crews are demanding ice?

Also, its ignorant to say some jet isn't buying fuel even though there is space in the tanks. I don't even know where to start with that one. When I buy fuel 'space in the tank' is not even a consideration. I figure what I need with alternates and reserves in mind. I calculate performance for the departure and landing field. I consider weight and balance of the aircraft and then I consider price of fuel between here and the next stop or possibly 2nd stop.

I weigh fuel costs against ramp fees and make a decision. When you say 'they don't even buy gas despite having room in their tanks' it totally discounts all that goes into a fuel purchase decision and way over simplifies it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game and the FBO sets the rules of that game.

 

[flyingron]

My usual ramp fee humor is showing up at a larger facility and the girl at the desk looking all over her list of aircraft to find out what fee a Navion is supposed to be charged. I usually take pity on her and tell her it's the same size as a Bonanza.

 

[Captain]

My usual ramp fee humor is showing up at a larger facility and the girl at the desk looking all over her list of aircraft to find out what fee a Navion is supposed to be charged. I usually take pity on her and tell her it's the same size as a Bonanza.

I play with that too. While she's trying to figure out what to charge for a Piaggio I tell her its a 'light twin...sorta like a Seminole'.

 

[timwinters]

Yeah, and had I not initiated the conversations with both the inside and outside help last Saturday at KSUS Millionaire, I would not have ever known that there even was a ramp fee. I was greeted by no one, inside or out. When I taxied in, I knew the plane that the dogs were being transferred to, he's based there, had parked it out on the ramp and I parked next to him. No one came out to park me. The girl inside didn't even look up as I passed by her desk coming and going.

I'm confident that, had I not initiated the conversations and asked, I would've come and gone without speaking to anyone who cared that I was even there.

 

[Bill Watson]

My usual ramp fee humor is showing up at a larger facility and the girl at the desk looking all over her list of aircraft to find out what fee a Navion is supposed to be charged. I usually take pity on her and tell her it's the same size as a Bonanza.

At any facility where they don't look out the window, it's the same story with an RV10 or my old Maule, "What???"

Love it everytime.

 

[jordane93]

That's like saying "I've never had a bad hotel, I just stayed in the Waldorf-Astoria and it was great." That is to say, that Million Air at KALB is the best FBO I've ever been to. An absolutely amazing facility, friendly staff, a room where I was able to stay overnight for free, and the cheapest fuel in the state when I was there. I'd return in a heartbeat.

Maybe I just have good luck, but all the FBO's I've been to were a non-issue. I haven't stayed overnight anywhere so maybe that's why

 

[docmirror]

OK, time for a bad ramp story.

I fly into KCOS once in a while and they have two FBOs. Last time I picked one and the service was nothing great, but I'm just a little prop toy to them. I get it. Next time I pick Cutter. Man, what a night and day difference. It was cold so they pulled the van out to the plane and had our stuff transferred, then they gave us a ride over to the comm side so I could pick up my rental. Had my plane dusted off of snow when I got back, and they filled the tanks. Sadly, I didn't leave a fuel order, so we had a little discussion at the desk, and I asked them to de-fuel. Well, short answer is they don't have 100LL defuel capability, so she said half price for what they pumped. I was happy with that.

Next time I'm going to PHX, again only two FBOs and I choose one. When I get to head out, the starter seizes. Ruh-roh, this is no plain-jane starter but a Bendix E-80, and not easy to find. So, I sourced one to borrow, and had it flown in and it was used, and looked rather iffy with some flaked paint, and dented data plate. Hell, it's 60 years old, I'm dented too! So, I'm sitting there on the ramp, with the starter removed and the A&P for this big name shop says 'uh-uh. I ain't putting that starter on that plane. Nope'. Well, just fine. I can't fly with the starter removed, and he won't put it on.

I put on the tow bar, and start dragging my poor steed toward Cutter. They see me coming, grab a tug and pull me over there, and I say to the crusty A&P; 'so, the nice jackwads over there won't put my starter on. No yellow tag, no cert, no nothing. I'm 800 miles from home, and I really don't want to hand prop it.' Guy grins and says 'no prob. I'll have you going in about 30 minutes'. Sure enough, 30 minutes later, I'm filled with cool water, the starter is on and tested, and my bill was $76. Yeah babeeeeeeeeee - Cutter.

 

[timwinters]

Can't really fault a guy for not putting an unapproved part on airplane for someone he doesn't know from Adam. For all he knew you might have been an FAA guy trying to set him up.

 

[Z06_Mir]

I've never had a bad experience at Cutter. In fact at KPHX they host (about once a month, less in the summer) a free BBQ and waive ramp fees for anyone who flies in. So I've flown into PHX twice for free food, the most fun 8 miles I've ever flown

I play with that too. While she's trying to figure out what to charge for a Piaggio I tell her its a 'light twin...sorta like a Seminole'.

That is a jerk move and I would not be nice if you came up to me and said that. You'd most definitely get charged for a King Air 350, maybe a jerk surcharge too.

 

[Captain]

I've never had a bad experience at Cutter. In fact at KPHX they host (about once a month, less in the summer) a free BBQ and waive ramp fees for anyone who flies in. So I've flown into PHX twice for free food, the most fun 8 miles I've ever flown





That is a jerk move and I would not be nice if you came up to me and said that. You'd most definitely get charged for a King Air 350, maybe a jerk surcharge too.

Overreact much? Maybe its nap time...

 

[Fearless Tower]

I've never had a bad experience at Cutter.

Cutter has always treated me well also.

 

[Palmpilot]

Now you guys got me curious about Cutter, so I looked to see if they had any locations that I might use. Deer Valley is the only one, but the student traffic there is so thick that I left in favor of Glendale.

http://www.cutteraviation.com/airport-facility-locations/

 

[Cavorter]

Cutter has always treated me well also.

Me too.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Overreact much? Maybe its nap time...

You're not the one getting nickel and dimed on a regular basis by people who aren't even paying the bill.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Now you guys got me curious about Cutter, so I looked to see if they had any locations that I might use. Deer Valley is the only one, but the student traffic there is so thick that I left in favor of Glendale.



http://www.cutteraviation.com/airport-facility-locations/

If you are going to the Phoenix area, just go to PHX. Must less stressful than mixing it up with the DVT traffic.

 

[Palmpilot]

If you are going to the Phoenix area, just go to PHX. Must less stressful than mixing it up with the DVT traffic.

Glendale is actually more convenient to my relatives' house, and probably a lot less expensive too.