radio license from "ARROW"

Peter Ha

Peter Ha

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Leadpan
Hey folks,
Found this old expired radio license. Guess this is the second "R" from ARROW?
How do I get one myself? Want to fly Canada and Mexico :)
If I have a HAM license does that qualify?
https://imgur.com/tnd5wwT
 
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No, a ham license doesn’t qualify for the radio operator license requirement.

...and technically the Radio R in “ARROW” is the radio station license for the airplane, not the pilot’s radio operator license.
 
In the USA, your N-number is your radio license for aviation. Going back to the dawn of radios in aviation, N was the prefix for Aviation radio licenses. For terrestrial radio, W was reserved for Eastern US and K for Western US. Of course TV transmitters were added with the appropriate K or W prefix their station ID's later.

Since the US pioneered aircraft, we could have pick any letter of the alphabet. Common question is why N. The implied radio license is why.
 
NordicDave said:
In the USA, your N-number is your radio license for aviation. Going back to the dawn of radios in aviation, N was the prefix for Aviation radio licenses. For terrestrial radio, W was reserved for Eastern US and K for Western US. Of course TV transmitters were added with the appropriate K or W prefix their station ID's later.

Since the US pioneered aircraft, we could have pick any letter of the alphabet. Common question is why N. The implied radio license is why.
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There is a lot of good history on this subject. How the various countries got their codes.
 
A Ham License is useless for aviation use (other than you can use your ham license to operate your ham rig aloft).

Radio licenses come in two flavors: a Station License (that's the thing with your N number on it, or in some cases a fleet designation). As pointed out they've been not required since around 1995 or so as long as you stay in the US. The other is the operator's license. Most people operate on what is known as a Restricted Radiotelephone Operators License. It's a completely idiotic piece of paper that the FCC has their nerve charging as much as they do (it used to be free). That's not required domestically either, for even longer than the station license requirement (probably in the 70's or so).

I've got both the General Radiotelephone and Radiotelegraph permits. Either of these suffices for international use where most would use the restricted. The good news is those are free (as far as the FCC is concerned) once you take the test which you can do at the same kind of places you do your FAA writtens (no more sweating with Annie Woodlawn down at the FCC building in downtown Baltimore like I did with my early Second Class and Ham licenses).

ARROW was always a acronym forced into a situation rather than being a really useful thing. It's even dumber now that radio license isn't required. You won't find a reg anywhere that supports the W. The W is only requierd to be there (if it is) because it's implicit in the O.

Ron N1RN
 
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flyingron said:
A Ham License is useless for aviation use (other than you can use your ham license to operate your ham rig aloft).
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Almost 25 years ago I was an Engineer on the DC-8. One trip I flew with a Captain who had a HAM license. We were on a transcontinental flight one night when he fired up the airplane's HF radio and made a few contacts. Funny how anxious folks were to make contact with an aeronautical callsign!
 
Dirty secret. No one will ask you for it.
 
flyingron said:
ARROW was always a acronym forced into a situation rather than being a really useful thing. It's even dumber now that radio license isn't required
Click to expand...

I have recently taken to using the second R to represent the State registration. No idea if every state requires an annual registration fee be paid, but this one does so to pass a ramp check, you need both Federal and (current) State registration onboard. So two Rs is reasonable.
 
smv said:
I have recently taken to using the second R to represent the State registration. No idea if every state requires an annual registration fee be paid, but this one does so to pass a ramp check, you need both Federal and (current) State registration onboard. So two Rs is reasonable.
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No state registration for Texas.
 
smv said:
I have recently taken to using the second R to represent the State registration. No idea if every state requires an annual registration fee be paid, but this one does so to pass a ramp check, you need both Federal and (current) State registration onboard. So two Rs is reasonable.
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Every state does not. In fact, even in states that issue them you're not obliged to carry them in the plane. The registration is purely a way for the state to collect more money. Some don't even issue registration paperwork (other than a receipt) when you do register. None as far as I know require you to carry it in the plane. VA gives you a sticker to put on the plane but I've never seen anybody ask or check for it (even the times the State Police have come out to investigate things).

Washington, Virginia, Ohio. Iowa, Delaware, Montana, Illinois, Minnesota, Arizona, Michigan, North Dakota, Connecticut, Oregon, Hawaii, Idaho, Rhode Island, Oklahoma, Wisconson all require registration.
Texas, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Maryland do not.
 
James331 said:
Dirty secret. No one will ask you for it.
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Yeah, I still have my original one from 1974 ready to proudly pull out going through customs, but on numerous trips through Canada and one to the Bahamas no one has ever asked for it.
 
dbahn said:
Yeah, I still have my original one from 1974 ready to proudly pull out going through customs, but on numerous trips through Canada and one to the Bahamas no one has ever asked for it.
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I assume you are talking about the operator license.

I had an aircraft station license but it was a fleet license from the flying club I leased to. By the time I pulled out of the club, the requirement for such had gone.
I got a restricted back in the day because the FCC wasn't issuing wallet sized cards for the regular radiotelephone licenses. Somewhere there's a file folder with my Third Class (w/Broadcast Endorsement) and Second Class originals. Now the FCC sends you the certificates in a PDF file (amusingly watermarked ORIGINAL COPY) so I can make as may as I like (and it comes with both a wall certificate and a wallet one). Amusingly, if you go to their website and print a replacement, it comes water marked "Replacement."

The FAA has gone this way with airworthiness certificates. You order a new one now, and it comes as a PDF file. You can print as many origianls as you want, but copies are NOT acceptable.
 
flyingron said:
Washington, Virginia, Ohio. Iowa, Delaware, Montana, Illinois, Minnesota, Arizona, Michigan, North Dakota, Connecticut, Oregon, Hawaii, Idaho, Rhode Island, Oklahoma, Wisconson all require registration.
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I am suddenly reminded of moving back to Montana after retiring from the military (and now with a pilot certificate) and receiving an letter from the state aeronautics division demanding $10 a year to "maintain" my certificate with warnings of dire consequences if I did not pay. Suffice it to say, I still have that $10 and every other $10 a year since. :rolleyes:
 
flyingron said:
I had an aircraft station license but it was a fleet license from the flying club I leased to. By the time I pulled out of the club, the requirement for such had gone.
I got a restricted back in the day because the FCC wasn't issuing wallet sized cards for the regular radiotelephone licenses. Somewhere there's a file folder with my Third Class (w/Broadcast Endorsement) and Second Class originals. Now the FCC sends you the certificates in a PDF file (amusingly watermarked ORIGINAL COPY) so I can make as may as I like (and it comes with both a wall certificate and a wallet one). Amusingly, if you go to their website and print a replacement, it comes water marked "Replacement."
Click to expand...

I had a 3rd Phone with Broadcast Endorsement back in the early 1970s. It was only good for 5 years and by the time it expired I didn't need it. I have no idea if I still have it, and if I do, no idea where it might be.

Now, my amateur radio licenses I have, starting with the first issued in November 1988, through the current one. Same callsign, different addresses and classes. Of course, the only one that matters to the FCC is the current one. Never have gotten the general RT operator license for use in the plane, but the club does maintain FCC station licenses for the planes. I doubt I'll get one as I can't fly in Canada with Basic Med. Oh well...
 
dbahn said:
Yeah, I still have my original one from 1974 ready to proudly pull out going through customs, but on numerous trips through Canada and one to the Bahamas no one has ever asked for it.
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That's cuz you are from Vermont...:rolleyes:
 
I've been licensed since 1974, Novice (WN3SBS), Tech (N3AGV), Advanced (KE2LG), and Extra (WO2L, then N1RN).

I should've kept the WO2L call. The prefix-hunting DX used to pile up on me when I'd pop up with that one.
My wife has an Advanced (N2JRG).

They pretty much eliminated the need for the third and second phones for broadcast work in the early 80's. It was up to the station owners to decide if their engineers were qualified (deregulation).
My 2nd turned into the GROL. I took the tech, third, and second exams down in the Federal Building in Baltimore. They had a woman there who ran the test room named Annie Woodlawn. Pretty nice lady. I remember when she retired.
 
I got my novice license (KN4DRD) on June 14, 1955, and my general (K4DRD) a year later. 2020 will be my 65th year as a ham using the same call sign. I'm still active on HF CW and SSB with an Elecraft KX-2 QRP rig.
 
Back in 1970 I had to get a radio license. Lost it and a wallet in a 600 acre field . Never did find it . (Farming with open station tractor )
So when I started back flying in August of Last year I asked my CFI if I needed to re-apply . Nope no longer needed.
 
Lots of overlap in this thread.

The second "R" in "ARROW" is for the aircraft's radio station license. It is no longer required for US-registered aircraft flying in the US. Students should till be taught that one is required for flights outside the US, even when flying a US-registered aircraft.

The Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is issued to the pilot and was previously required for flights in the US. That requirement was dropped but it is still required when flying outside the US so, again, students should be taught of its existence, when it is needed, and how to apply. Airline pilots, and many commercial pilots, will have them for international flying. G.A. pilots flying into neighboring countries will as well.
 
flyingron said:
They pretty much eliminated the need for the third and second phones for broadcast work in the early 80's. It was up to the station owners to decide if their engineers were qualified (deregulation).
Click to expand...

3rd phone w/ broadcast was rules, regs and can you read a meter. I can see why the FCC did away with it. It really didn't prove much. Reading a meter was easy, after all I was a EE student at the time. :p
 
Ghery said:
3rd phone w/ broadcast was rules, regs and can you read a meter. I can see why the FCC did away with it. It really didn't prove much. Reading a meter was easy, after all I was a EE student at the time. :p
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“GROL. Still more useful than a CompTIA IT certificate.” LOL.

Sorry was just thinking about useless IT certs today for some reason.
 
The GROL is completely useless for anything other than aviation work (which in itself is NOT sufficient anyhow). Just about everything else with regard to the FCC was deregulated long ago.
 
Peter Ha said:
Hey folks,
Found this old expired radio license. Guess this is the second "R" from ARROW?
How do I get one myself? Want to fly Canada and Mexico :)
If I have a HAM license does that qualify?
https://imgur.com/tnd5wwT
Click to expand...

I've been flying all over Mexico and Canada for the last 30+ years and I've never had one and never had an issue. Never even been asked.
 
Larry in TN said:
Almost 25 years ago I was an Engineer on the DC-8. One trip I flew with a Captain who had a HAM license. We were on a transcontinental flight one night when he fired up the airplane's HF radio and made a few contacts. Funny how anxious folks were to make contact with an aeronautical callsign!
Click to expand...

We have VHF and UHF radios in the helicopters. It's fun to plug in the freqs for a local repeaters while flying cross country. For some reason people get a kick out of talking to aircraft.
 
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