Radio call training etc.

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muleywannabe

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Cherokee235
Is there a good place to learn how to make radio calls etc on the internet or a website to follow?

I am still very shaky on these and we are a non-towered airport.
 
Remember the "4 W's"

Who I'm calling (Torrance Tower)
Who I am (Tobago 5553 Papa)
Where I am (Holding short of 29 Right at Juliet with Bravo (ATIS))
What I want (I'd like a Right Crosswind Departure)

So..."Torrance tower, Tobago 5553 Papa holding short of 29 Right at Juliet with Bravo, I'd like a Right Crosswind Departure"

I actually have this written in a section of the pages I use on the kneeboard. I was harder to get "automatic" than I though it would be (and I've been a Ham for 33 years and tought pretty much this EXACT same protocol for the USFS for a decade or more)
 
I have the gift of gab...my wife says its a bad gift. haha...but I freeze up on the comm!!! I assume this comes with lots of practice, I cannot imagine trying to fly into a tower controlled airport right now, I would flip out
 
Get a portable radio and listen at a towered airport ,when you get the time. Also live act.com works good.
 
I spent my life since I was 14 communicating on radios, headsets and different com systems in all kinds of different environments...even making public announcements live and on the fly to thousands of people at special events...but my first days in the plane on radio with ATC I was a fumbling idiot...so your story is not uncommon.

There is no training like the real thing!...It is when you are under the pressure that performance counts and it is hard to simulate all the conditions. LiveATC is the best way to get familiar with what is said but nothing can prepare you like live interaction.

Go find a sleepy class D airport and just fly the pattern with a controller. One of the best lessons my instructor taught me (other than how NOT to crash!) was to announce "student pilot" or "new pilot" when interacting with ATC...even if you are not but uneasy or unsure of the procedures. They will help you want you to succeeded...and don't be afraid to ask for clarification if you do not 100% understand.

"Lakeland Tower...Cesna XYZ new pilot 10 miles out inbound with information Zulu for touch and go..."

Trust me, you WILL learn by making mistakes...it is part of the process and how you build confidence.

Now if you show up at ATL airport or LAX Bravo and don't have your act together...it may be a bit rough!

Bob Gardner's "Say Again, Please?" is a great resource...strongly recommend reading that.
 
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Shawn said:
Now if you show up at ATL airport or LAX Bravo and don't have your act together...it may be a bit rough!
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Our Tower isn't all that harsh - but I stopped listening to our Ground frequencies at work because It was "too amusing". Although the airlines that require tow to the taxi point CLAIM it's "fuel cost related", I think they aren't quite sure which are taxiways and which are runways :rofl:
 
I know its not the real thing, but do some ground school with your CFI. Have him give you mock taxi, hold short, departure pattern procedures and read them back to him to simulate a conversation between you and the tower. The trick is NOT to talk fast. Annuciate yur words, speak clearly, and listen up
 
muleywannabe said:
Is there a good place to learn how to make radio calls etc on the internet or a website to follow?

I am still very shaky on these and we are a non-towered airport.
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Come work ramp control with me, I'll teach you how to talk on the radio. :yesnod:
 
1. Practice.
2. Don't wait to be in the plane.

I had a 30 minute drive to flight lessons and I would do pattern calls in my car the whole way.

"Gainesville Traffic, Cessna One Zero Uniform entering 45 degree downwind for three five full stop. Gainesville"

"Gainesville Traffic, Cessna One Zero Uniform left base for three five. Gainesville"

"Gainesville Traffic, Cessna One Zero Uniform short final three five. Gainesville "

"Gainesville Traffic, Cessna One Zero Uniform Crossing the active at midfield. Gainesville "



over and over and over and over Lying in bed at night before falling asleep. Wandering around the house looking for whatever I came in to this room for but can no longer remember...

You don't have to be in the plane to practice talking on the radio.

Last thing I would say is when on FF or talking to a tower (later) or even at a non controlled field don't be quiet if you don't understand. speak up. I found early on, I thought there had to be this professional code of pilot speak if I was broadcasting. It is good to learn to speak like a pilot. If you are confused however, speak up and don't worry about the format.
 
Old Fart said:
Remember the "4 W's"

Who I'm calling (Torrance Tower)
Who I am (Tobago 5553 Papa)
Where I am (Holding short of 29 Right at Juliet with Bravo (ATIS))
What I want (I'd like a Right Crosswind Departure)

So..."Torrance tower, Tobago 5553 Papa holding short of 29 Right at Juliet with Bravo, I'd like a Right Crosswind Departure"

I actually have this written in a section of the pages I use on the kneeboard. I was harder to get "automatic" than I though it would be (and I've been a Ham for 33 years and tought pretty much this EXACT same protocol for the USFS for a decade or more)
Click to expand...


I learned to fly in the boonies. Except for the bare necessities required for the checkride I had virtually no experience communicating with the tower. After my checkride, I was still EXTREMELY hesitant to go to towered airports. I started going into a nearby, class D with very light traffic. I then had someone give me the four W's as above. Almost immediately after that, my Mom had a serious health issue and I had to go into a buisy towered airport requiring midfield crossing over another.

One of the members on here local to me basically posted a script of what I needed to say and where I needed to say it. I went over it in my head over and over during my 35 mile drive to the airport. I made the trip without issues and it was off to the races after that.

Another member sent me an old set of cassette tapes and I listened to those for awhile. I now have no intimidation and no problem going into a towered airport. I have even gotten flight following to take me across the DFW Bravo without incident.

Learn the four W's and practice in your head. When you get ready to take a trip involving a tower or towers, study the script and think ahead. In no time it will be second nature.

Good luck,
 
If you can find a smaller airport to listen in on (Class D), so much the better. The bigger airports can get a bit hectic. Even little things like ATIS can be different. Most of the big airports use that horrible computer voice (sounds like a Cylon on qualudes)
 
I love these responses...some good some really bad...

If you want to learn correctly...Capt'n Ron points out Bob Gardner's book (I think there is a audio training of some sort with this as well) ...I second this...

Another great product is www.comm1.com...spring for the headset adapter...
 
I am training out of a busy class-D and I have the opposite issue. I tend to freeze-up at non-towered airports because of the number of calls (especially if I'm staying in the pattern). Also, with many of the other pilots being local and knowing all the landmarks, it's uncomfortable for me because I feel like I might not be giving information that is as useful as it could be.

After a lesson and several trips around the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, I'm trilled to get back to talking to the tower. :)
 
One thing that helped me during training is, before making any transmission, take a moment to think out exactly what you're going to say...and what the response will likely be. It might sound obvious, but rather than formulating what you're saying on the fly, pause for a moment, and gather all of the info in your head together. Back to Jeff's post, the four W's (or rather 5 W's if you include Weather).

When I started flying (at a Class C), I knew I had to call up Clearance Delivery prior to taxi. I'd dial up the freq, hit xmit, then freeze up. At the suggestion of my CFI, I started saying out exactly what I was going to transmit, in my head.

As I mentioned before, anticipating what the ATC response will be was a big help in interpreting the response quickly. Calling for for ready to taxi? Have the diagram out, know the expected runway (from ATIS), trace it out with your finger, saying each taxiway in your head. It just gets the mind geared for hearing a long set of taxi instructions, and more than likely they'll be what you expected.
 
Yep. It's a push to talk button not a push to think button.
You can write a template for each exchange too and then fill it in as you go. Eg:

______ ground Cessna *** at _____ with _____ VFR _____ ready to taxi.

Taxi to rwy. _____ via ________ squawk _____ departure ______

______ tower Cessna *** holding short _____ ready to take off.

Or such.
 
Mike I said:
Calling for for ready to taxi? Have the diagram out, know the expected runway (from ATIS), trace it out with your finger, saying each taxiway in your head. It just gets the mind geared for hearing a long set of taxi instructions, and more than likely they'll be what you expected.
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Then work at copying the taxi instructions as ATC is making the call. It's good practice for copying clearances when doing IA work. It won't be as structured as a clearance call but it helps get you in the habit of hearing and writing without trying to process.
 
Pull up Liveatc.net, like those before mentioned, but with the added twist of having the airport chart in front of you. Listen to the ground freq. of one of the busy joints, like JFK, ORD, whatever. Follow each plane on the chart as it's given the ground instructions. You'll be surprised how quick you pick up what they are saying, since 90% of the ATC thing is knowing what they are going to say before they say it. That's whats intimidating to students.

When you fly into the same place all the time, the tower can say what it wants at warp speed, and you'll know what they mean because you heard it yesterday, the day before, etc...There are always exceptions, but you get my point. Follow the planes to the terminal and vice versa.
 
muleywannabe said:
Is there a good place to learn how to make radio calls etc on the internet or a website to follow?

I am still very shaky on these and we are a non-towered airport.
Click to expand...

Go to www.faa.gov and type 7110.65 in the search box. On the resulting page you will see a link to the Air Traffic Control Handbook, the publication that tells controllers the phraseology that they must use (unless it becomes apparent that the pilot does not understand what is required, in which case controllers are permitted to use plain English). Read chapters 2 - General Control, 3 - ATC Terminal, and 7 - Visual for sure...the other chapters are "nice to know."

Once you understand what a controller is required to say, it becomes easier to anticipate what s/he will say next. To hijack an idea from Flight Training Magazine, find an open space about 10 x 20 feet and mark off a rectangle with masking tape (or whatever) to represent the traffic pattern; along one of the long legs of the rectangle use more tape to indicate the runway. Your job is to walk the pattern while your CFI issues controller transmissions...and you respond correctly. A good instructor can come up with tricks like "Make short approach..." "Cleared for the option..." "Landing clearance cancelled, go around..." and what ever else comes to mind.

I have a problem with listening to aircraft frequencies...you hear as much poor phraseology as you hear proper phraseology, and you don't have enough experience to know which is which. A common student error is to use a phrase heard on the radio simply because it was heard on the radio...could have been completely bogus, but the student thinks that it must be the way to talk.

For ops at a non-towered airport, read Advisory Circular 90-42F (also available at the faa.gov site.

Bob Gardner
bobmrg@comcast.net
 
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Strangely, I love the radio work. It's one of my favorite parts of flying. There's a cool factor involved with learning the lingo and being part of the intricate dance that is air traffic control.

Maybe your first step should be tackling it with a different perspective. You might remember, back when you were a kid, playing games where you emulated the radio work of some professions. Maybe you emulated cops talking from their squad car. Maybe you emulated military dudes, or pilots. I can remember my brother and I getting walkie-talkies and pretending we were big shots. "I've got a bogie at six o'clock, over."

Why do we do that as kids? Because it's frickin' awesome, that's why. So master the lingo and have a blast. And don't forget, the controllers speak English as well as pilot-ese. If all else fails, and it will fail early on, speak some English to get clarification or get your point across.

I think my radio work was well ahead of my flying for a good chunk of my training. Here are some additional tips:

  • Keep your head in the game. Listen to pilot-controller conversations any chance you get. Did you know you can get LiveATC on your smartphone?
  • When first starting out, ask your instructor to write out a script
  • Try not to be nervous, and preface your calls with "student pilot" while you're training
  • Never let your fear of sounding stupid prevent you from asking for clarification
 
asechrest said:
Strangely, I love the radio work. It's one of my favorite parts of flying. There's a cool factor involved with learning the lingo and being part of the intricate dance that is air traffic control.

Maybe your first step should be tackling it with a different perspective. You might remember, back when you were a kid, playing games where you emulated the radio work of some professions. Maybe you emulated cops talking from their squad car. Maybe you emulated military dudes, or pilots. I can remember my brother and I getting walkie-talkies and pretending we were big shots. "I've got a bogie at six o'clock, over."

Why do we do that as kids? Because it's frickin' awesome, that's why. So master the lingo and have a blast. And don't forget, the controllers speak English as well as pilot-ese. If all else fails, and it will fail early on, speak some English to get clarification or get your point across.

I think my radio work was well ahead of my flying for a good chunk of my training. Here are some additional tips:
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Agreed!

I love going flying and putting on my pilot voice :rolleyes: but I do try to sound calm and annunciate better.
 
muleywannabe said:
Is there a good place to learn how to make radio calls etc on the internet or a website to follow?

I am still very shaky on these and we are a non-towered airport.
Click to expand...

I never tried this but there is an online flight sim community with live ATC that you can interact with as a pilot.

http://www.vatsim.net/
 
When I was doing my PP training, I found a book from ASA called "Aviation Radio Communications Made Easy". It basically has a bunch of scripts for any VFR communication you'd have with ATC. I liked it because it has blank spots to fill in the info you need and is separated out for each flight segment/situation.

$15 online or I'm willing to send out my copy as a POA Round Robin.
 
Even better, find a busy towered airport, perhaps Class C if there is flight training going on. Listen on liveatc.net and make your own scripts. Even if you never use them again, that will help you learn them. If you like, you can crack the AIM and see who is screwing up/off.

If nothing familiar makes sense, try KVNY or KAPA (class D) or KOAK, KCOS, or KLGB (class C). Pick a time late morning on a nice Saturday. Listen to ground, tower, and clearance delivery (if they have it and it's being used for VFR departures -- sometimes ground is used for VFR and CD for IFR).
 
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I train at Palo Alto CA which can be incredibly busy at times. I am pretty
early in my training and the radio work can be daunting. One method of
training I use is to use liveatc.net and bring up the archive of a
busy day (either weekend day usually works). I listen to the controller
primarily. Anytime he/she gives instructions to a pilot I pretend
they're talking to me and respond appropriately. It may
seem a bit silly at times but it really helps.

I find that this technique helps me learn by having to respond quickly
and doing it lots of times.

Good luck!

Victor
 
I bought Sporty's VFR radio communications DVD which was decent, I learned most of my communications by watching a ton of youtube videos, no joke. I also listen to liveatc.net when I have spare time.
 
VATSIM and/or Pilot Edge are great services and a great way for a "no pressure" learning experience. I'm a huge believer in VATSIM particularly just because that's where my experience has been. Though, Pilot Edge provides a more complete experience that is not subject to who's online acting as ATC (compared with VATSIM). But, PE is geographically limited to SoCal.

I had about 13 years of flying online with VATSIM before getting my PPL and dealing with ATC was second nature to me. Now, in my IFR training, I'm very familiar with what to expect and how to communicate. I'd highly recommend either for those just starting out and wanting to get comfortable with talking to ATC.
 
One more note about learning by listening:

From the Practical Test Standard:

Task A: Radio Communications and ATC Light Signals (ASEL and ASES)
References: 14 CFR part 91; FAA-H-8083-25; AIM.
Objective: To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to radio communications and ATC light signals.
2. Selects appropriate frequencies.
3. Transmits using AIM specified phraseology and procedures.
4. Acknowledges radio communications and complies with instructions.

Can you be sure that the folks you are listening to rise to that standard? Stick to the phraseology used in the AIM and AC 90-42F and you can't go wrong.

Bob Gardner
 
I found the book "Radio Mastery for VFR Pilots" by Jeff Kanarish to be helpful. He also has a podcast called Radar Contact where he frequently talks about proper terminology. That's when I first realized a lot of what I hear on the radio isn't proper.
 
Remember that if you have a brain fart moment, the controller also speaks standard English, a simple "I'm sorry but I don't understand your instructions and I need some clarification" probably wont catch you too much flack.

One thing my CFI said to me that reduced some anxiety I had at first was that it's really nothing more than a conversation in it's essence. Use the 4 W's and try to know what you're going to say before you key the mic.

Personally, I love talking on the radio, I feel fortunate to be based out of a towered field. I've never make a flight without talking to ATC. Spend some time at a quiet towered field and it'll become easier in no time.

Also, remember that at some point, you'll omit things, say incorrect things and just make mistakes, it happens. There will probably even be a few moments of annoying or upsetting an ATC, it happens. I like listening to liveatc and youtube to hear how other pilots and ATC talk. I remember a rather annoyed ground controller almost scolding me for not including direction of flight in my taxi request, while that makes sense, it's something I NEVER do at my home field and have never been asked to.
 
muecb said:
I am training out of a busy class-D and I have the opposite issue. I tend to freeze-up at non-towered airports because of the number of calls (especially if I'm staying in the pattern). Also, with many of the other pilots being local and knowing all the landmarks, it's uncomfortable for me because I feel like I might not be giving information that is as useful as it could be.

After a lesson and several trips around the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, I'm trilled to get back to talking to the tower. :)
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The hell with landmarks at a non towered airport. You know the proper landmarks; downwind, base and final covers them for the most part.
 
MBDiagMan said:
The hell with landmarks at a non towered airport. You know the proper landmarks; downwind, base and final covers them for the most part.
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Well, you can report in "5 miles south of the field," but there are some places where the cardinal directions are AFU.

When I hear initial reports "5 miles south" of KHAF, I'm tempted to ask how the transoceanic crossing went. Virtually everyone approaches from the east and lands on 30, but thinks it's south. There is nothing anywhere near a bearing of 180 from KHAF short of Antarctica, and maybe a few islands in the far south pacific.

I'd rather hear "over the golf course" (it's on the TAC, and it's VERY obvious from the air).

LOTS of people forget the California coastline trends northwest. NOT north. Los Angeles is east of Reno.

It's a good idea to plan approaches for any airport, towered or non towered. You already need to know the direction of traffic (it isn't always left -- terrain and noise abatement procedures are common) and the AWOS and CTAF frequencies. It's only a little more to plan a 45 entry and identify a landmark off the chart.
 
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I have noticed after listening a lot to the atc chatter...That the majority of the pilots you hear, especially the airliners, all speak so darn fast and do not enunciate at all. You cant hear a word they even say or barely understand it. very frustrating, but I have noticed that the tower communicators speak clearly for the most part.
 
Most airline pilots talk fast, and shortcut their phraseology on busier frequencies. That doesn't necessarily mean their read backs aren't correct and complete. They do a great job as participants in the NAS, and I would say only a few of them need to be reminded to give their call sign or to read back the important stuff.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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