R44 into IMC?

Velocity173 said:
Only helicopter in the world that I know of being pressurized is what Clark made reference to; MI-24. It's pressurized for NBC ops though and not for high altitude, although I'm sure it would work at altitude.

In Afghanistan the highest we usually went was around 13,500-14,000 ft. If we went above that we could sign out the HEEDS bottles from the armory. Doesn't do much good if though if you're on HEEDS at say 16,000 ft and your pax are getting loopy in the back. :D Against regs as well.

You're right, so many accidents preventable. As I always say, it's understandable that a PIC will launch into weather conditions that they shouldn't because of the unexpected. A good PIC has the patience and skills that when they're thrown that curve ball after takeoff, they either find a way to avoid it all together, or they excecute an appropriate IIMC recovery. A good PIC can adapt to the unexpected. Unfortunately you can't teach that. It comes from years getting backed into a corner by weather and finding a solution out.
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Well said. The desire to complete the mission is strong. The hardest part of medevac flying is knowing when to delay or cancel a flight.

Ok, I was wondering about pressurization because CAMTS requires medical transports to be pressurized, but the helicopters flying here are not. The airport is 6500 feet, and some routes need a minimum of over 10,00 for terrain clearance. I guess it would be hard to require a pressurized helicopter if there aren't any.
 
N747JB said:
I felt sick after watching that, the poor groom was getting very uncomfortable and the bride didn't seem to have a care in the world, as it should be on her wedding day. I don't understand the language, I wonder who the girl in the front seat was? She didn't look concerned at all.
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The gentleman in back was her brother and the lady in front was the photographer. Very sad.
 
Brutal...and sad...
 
I saw the translation somewhere, see if I can find it. The girl in front is the photographer.


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N747JB said:
Thank you, so they were going to the wedding?
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Correct. They went down just a couple miles from the wedding with the groom and guests waiting. No one at the wedding knew they had crashed so when they didn't show, a search party was sent out.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I really hate everything about this story.
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In the link in the other thread someone accidentally started on this same topic here -- which links to a discussion on PPRUNE...

Someone in the thread at PPRUNE posted a few more videos of helo pilots pushing into IMC on purpose, one even bragging to the camera about doing it... as he switched off all the instruments or covered most of them... like you'd do on a partial panel IFR checkride... in a helicopter not rated for it.

And then they pointed out that he killed himself and two other people doing it, not long after the video was shot.

I can find it in my black little soul to hate that guy just a tiny bit more than the pilot of a wedding chopper trying to complete the job in an unsafe and ultimately deadly way.

Both bad, but one was shooting video specifically to show off doing it, and bragging about it.
 
Very sad indeed, especially seeing how they were trying to have a happy time, then looked more and more concerned.
Another one of those.. "why did I watch that?" moments:(.
RIP.
And their poor families....most of us don't have video of our loved one's final moments on video all over the internet!
 
denverpilot said:
In the link in the other thread someone accidentally started on this same topic here -- which links to a discussion on PPRUNE...

Someone in the thread at PPRUNE posted a few more videos of helo pilots pushing into IMC on purpose, one even bragging to the camera about doing it... as he switched off all the instruments or covered most of them... like you'd do on a partial panel IFR checkride... in a helicopter not rated for it.

And then they pointed out that he killed himself and two other people doing it, not long after the video was shot.

I can find it in my black little soul to hate that guy just a tiny bit more than the pilot of a wedding chopper trying to complete the job in an unsafe and ultimately deadly way.

Both bad, but one was shooting video specifically to show off doing it, and bragging about it.
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How do you know? The one bragging could work as a Wedding Chopper Pilot.
 
Like my old CFI use to tell me: "There are old pilots and there are both pilots but never both"
 
FloridaPilot said:
How do you know? The one bragging could work as a Wedding Chopper Pilot.
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I have no idea what you're saying, but the second one was demoing his little IMC trick in an uncertified helo when he killed his two passengers. I doubt a wedding party would be interested in a ride along for an illegal IMC demo.

If I'm reading the response correctly over there, he not only would cover all the instruments and climb into IMC conditions, he would autorotate out of the clouds.
 
denverpilot said:
In the link in the other thread someone accidentally started on this same topic here -- which links to a discussion on PPRUNE...

Someone in the thread at PPRUNE posted a few more videos of helo pilots pushing into IMC on purpose, one even bragging to the camera about doing it... as he switched off all the instruments or covered most of them... like you'd do on a partial panel IFR checkride... in a helicopter not rated for it.

And then they pointed out that he killed himself and two other people doing it, not long after the video was shot.

I can find it in my black little soul to hate that guy just a tiny bit more than the pilot of a wedding chopper trying to complete the job in an unsafe and ultimately deadly way.

Both bad, but one was shooting video specifically to show off doing it, and bragging about it.
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There was a vid on YouTube a couple months back that has since been removed. Shows a guy in the Philippines departing from some work site in an Astar. The weather couldn't have been more than 100 ft ceiling. He takes off and almost immediately goes IMC and then just cruises along at maybe 300-400 ft in solid IMC for about 2-3 minutes. You can see yellow and red terrain warnings on his panel SVT display. I'm sure the dude had that route memorized but man, some of the stuff these guys do to get the job done just makes me cringe.
 
denverpilot said:
I have no idea what you're saying, but the second one was demoing his little IMC trick in an uncertified helo when he killed his two passengers. I doubt a wedding party would be interested in a ride along for an illegal IMC demo.

If I'm reading the response correctly over there, he not only would cover all the instruments and climb into IMC conditions, he would autorotate out of the clouds.
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I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. The point I was trying to make is the mentality is transferable. The "daring" Helicopter pilot could work taking passengers someplace and being a daring pilot on the side. It's deadly because that person could look at the sky, see the IMC conditions and say to himself: "I've done this before as a daring pilot I could do it again" and bring passengers with him only to get in a major accident.

SkyDog58 said:
I don't think that is how it goes.
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It might not be but I got the message and that's most important.
 
MassPilot said:
It goes "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but no old bold pilots".
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And that's not really true, as there most certainly are and have been old, bold pilots. But it is still a pretty good rule of thumb to avoid the dumbassery that tends to get people killed.
 
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Cajun_Flyer said:
And that's not really true, as there most certain are and have been old, bold pilots. But it is still a pretty good rule of thumb to avoid the dumbassery that tends to get people killed.
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So very true, but as a bush pilot I pushed every edge of the envelope. I also had the wisdom to know when to turn around and try a different pass or wait until another day. As Velocity173 stated above, "A good PIC can adapt to the unexpected. Unfortunately you can't teach that. It comes from years getting backed into a corner by weather and finding a solution out."
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
And that's not really true, as there most certainly are and have been old, bold pilots. But it is still a pretty good rule of thumb to avoid the dumbassery that tends to get people killed.
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Agreed. All the old bold pilots I've met had incredible amounts of experience and rarely had to resort to "bold" things until forced and even those were thought hard about ahead of time. Knew they shouldn't push the envelope unless survival was on the line.

Zeldman said:
So very true, but as a bush pilot I pushed every edge of the envelope. I also had the wisdom to know when to turn around and try a different pass or wait until another day. As Velocity173 stated above, "A good PIC can adapt to the unexpected. Unfortunately you can't teach that. It comes from years getting backed into a corner by weather and finding a solution out."
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Like that.
 
Velocity173 said:
There was a vid on YouTube a couple months back that has since been removed. Shows a guy in the Philippines departing from some work site in an Astar. The weather couldn't have been more than 100 ft ceiling. He takes off and almost immediately goes IMC and then just cruises along at maybe 300-400 ft in solid IMC for about 2-3 minutes. You can see yellow and red terrain warnings on his panel SVT display. I'm sure the dude had that route memorized but man, some of the stuff these guys do to get the job done just makes me cringe.
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I assume the AStar is not rated for such things?

I know nothing about helicopter types.
 
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denverpilot said:
I assume the AStar is not rated for such things?

I know nothing about helicopter types.
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None that I know of. It's the equivalent of a Bell 407. You've got well over 1,000 407s flying around but maybe a half a dozen have spent the extra money for all the STCs to make them IFR certified. They're equipped as far as 91.205 is concerned but not IAW part 27 certification.

What's funny is, I have far more Instrument capability in our 407 compared to a Black Hawk. Yet I flew that thing IFR doing NDBs with no autopilot! :DSometimes common sense just goes out the window when it comes to the FAA regs.
 
Velocity173 said:
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None that I know of. It's the equivalent of a Bell 407. You've got well over 1,000 407s flying around but maybe a half a dozen have spent the extra money for all the STCs to make them IFR certified. They're equipped as far as 91.205 is concerned but not IAW part 27 certification.

What's funny is, I have far more Instrument capability in our 407 compared to a Black Hawk. Yet I flew that thing IFR doing NDBs with no autopilot! :DSometimes common sense just goes out the window when it comes to the FAA regs.
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In this regard I think the FAA regs are killing people. You should just be able to file and go in an aircraft equipped like that one. I know the FAA was trying to set a high standard with part 27 but not many markets can support the cost to comply so guys are driving around in highly capable aircraft in every regard other than ice protection trying to fly vfr. Stupid in my opinion.
 
I found it! Actually I think it's a 407 GX. Good setup but legal??? :(

 
Velocity173 said:
I found it! Actually I think it's a 407 GX. Good setup but legal??? :(

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It's gotta be fake, no water dripping on the pilot! I'm joking but helicopters are notorious for leaks.
 
Mr. Foggy Flier was starting a right bank before he came out of the clouds . . . But he's bad, check out those 4 stripes and flying gloves! :D
 
Velocity173 said:
View attachment 54702

None that I know of. It's the equivalent of a Bell 407. You've got well over 1,000 407s flying around but maybe a half a dozen have spent the extra money for all the STCs to make them IFR certified. They're equipped as far as 91.205 is concerned but not IAW part 27 certification.

What's funny is, I have far more Instrument capability in our 407 compared to a Black Hawk. Yet I flew that thing IFR doing NDBs with no autopilot! :DSometimes common sense just goes out the window when it comes to the FAA regs.
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Nice!! Missed ya again this evening ha! -4 and -1 came off the pad not long after each other, as I was orbiting downtown with a buddy of mine. ;)
 
Hank S said:
Mr. Foggy Flier was starting a right bank before he came out of the clouds . . . But he's bad, check out those 4 stripes and flying gloves! :D
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Artificial vision helps out a lot, too.... I was thinking maybe the slight right turn was towards a break in the clouds.

But ya.... flight gloves made by the lowest bidder is what makes the flyer...:yesnod:
 
Zeldman said:
So very true, but as a bush pilot I pushed every edge of the envelope. I also had the wisdom to know when to turn around and try a different pass or wait until another day. As Velocity173 stated above, "A good PIC can adapt to the unexpected. Unfortunately you can't teach that. It comes from years getting backed into a corner by weather and finding a solution out."
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Amen. Sometimes I wonder in the accidents that killed my friends if I was in the exact same scenario if I would have survived or not.
 
DavidWhite said:
Amen. Sometimes I wonder in the accidents that killed my friends if I was in the exact same scenario if I would have survived or not.
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Me too.

One accident haunted me for years since I was supposed to be in the plane. Would I have rode into the mountain with him or tell him to hold altitude.??
 
DavidWhite said:
Amen. Sometimes I wonder in the accidents that killed my friends if I was in the exact same scenario if I would have survived or not.
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I always wonder about these things. Engine quits and you are pax, pilot starts the impossible 180...
 
Zeldman said:
Me too.

One accident haunted me for years since I was supposed to be in the plane. Would I have rode into the mountain with him or tell him to hold altitude.??
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The airplane in my profile picture was involved in a fatal back in October (it was my profile picture before that) killed a passenger, pilot, and co-pilot. I cant help but wonder what the co pilot was thinking, but whatever it was, he either didn't speak up, or did and the captain didn't listen to him. They found their boots.

I decided to keep the picture because 1. I like the picture and 2. It reminds me how quick a whole airplane can become nothing more than a splotch on the side of a mountain if you're not careful.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I always wonder about these things. Engine quits and you are pax, pilot starts the impossible 180...
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It's not always impossible depending on the skills of the pilot. I had a CFI that had an engine seize at 500 AGL after takeoff. He immediately pushed the nose down hard and threw it into a 60 degree bank. He made it back to the runway he just came from with enough energy to float halfway down before touching down. If I attempted something like that I'd probably kill myself...
 
DavidWhite said:
I'm very particular about who I ride with for this reason...I don't like flying with other pilots any more...
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You and me both. Unless I know them and their flying abilities, I don't fly with them, unless I'm PIC. Not to say that I won't make the same mistakes that they might, but I at least know my own abilities and decision making.
 
Clark1961 said:
It's gotta be fake, no water dripping on the pilot! I'm joking but helicopters are notorious for leaks.
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Synthetic Vision can make a lot of things possible that previously required the super human skills of 20yo military types flying daily in combat.


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