Questions for the Ronafide.

[Matthew Rogers]

I am very pro-vaccine, and I don't think highly of anti-vaxers, but your story sounds so made up to me.

I agree, but I would swear on what ever you want me to swear on, that it is true and not even paraphrased. It was followed up by the below discussion.

The doctor, along with the head of the AAP (Pediatrics), is actually mad at the FDA for kowtowing to anti-vaxxers and not letting the vaccine be approved for younger children before the school year. They already know it is safe, the studies are only testing dosage. There is no placebo in the child studies, just varying levels of dosage. So why not approve it at a low dosage and give boosters later on if necessary? People who want their kids vaccinated before school will already let them get the shot. Those who have not done it themselves will not let their kids get it regardless of how much data the FDA presents.

 

[X3 Skier]

As Joey would say ... "Come on man! Here's the deal!" Why you wanna go and confuse the issue with facts? Who in their right mind mind would believe anything from CNBC? Oh wait ...

After reading the sidebar summaries on the first link like the vaccines have killed more people than the Atom Bomb and the PCR Tests do not detect COVID and the CDC is collecting households addresses to potentially kidnap kids, I’ll look elsewhere for facts.

Cheers

 

[Daleandee]

After reading the sidebar summaries on the first link like the vaccines have killed more people than the Atom Bomb and the PCR Tests do not detect COVID and the CDC is collecting households addresses to potentially kidnap kids, I’ll look elsewhere for facts.

Cheers

Truth is hard to find bro ...

 

[Matthew Johnson]

...What you put in your body is your business and what I put in mine is mine. Same with choosing the level of risk a person is comfortable with. It should be a matter of personal choice and I don't think the government should be allowed to interfere with that liberty...

Totally off topic, and I hope not to cause the thread to be locked, but am I the only one who finds the argument above to be horribly ironic in that in the vaccination context it often used by the same people who dismiss almost the exact same argument/verbiage when used in support of women's free choice of contraception methods?

Edit to add: This also applies equally the other direction.

 

[Erik Muldrow]

I had very mild symptoms, but I know some people who had much more severe reactions.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Totally off topic, and I hope not to cause the thread to be locked, but am I the only one who finds the argument above to be horribly ironic in that in the vaccination context it often used by the same people who dismiss almost the exact same argument/verbiage when used in support of women's free choice of contraception methods?

Mind blown as to why I did not see this earlier.

 

[Troska]

Did you actually read and understand the articles you linked to below?

Tim

If it worked I’d be all for it. The vaccine will not keep you from getting COVID or prevent the spread of the virus.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

https://www.vaccinedeaths.com/2021-08-13-most-patients-in-serious-condition-fully-vaccinated.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/del...ective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

 

[EdFred]

Totally off topic, and I hope not to cause the thread to be locked, but am I the only one who finds the argument above to be horribly ironic in that in the vaccination context it often used by the same people who dismiss almost the exact same argument/verbiage when used in support of women's free choice of contraception methods?

If my body my choice applies to one thing then it should apply to everything.

 

[SkyChaser]

New York does not have any exemptions for childhood vaccines other than defined medical exemptions. Religious or personal viewpoints are not acceptable anymore.

Ok, so you also agree that a private business (bookstore, restaurant, gym), including doctors and hospitals, insurance companies, and the like can refuse service to anyone they choose as long as it is not discriminatory (race, sex, age, disability, origin, religion?

Would you exempt yourself from care at a hospital or monetary insurance coverage if you catch COVID and require serious treatment? If not, you are placing an extra burden on the rest of us based on a personal viewpoint, just like Cirrus drivers that pull the chute and total a million dollar airframe raise the insurance rates for everyone else.

I don't hold New York as a good example of just about anything, so that point is rather moot to me, sorry. At least some states still honor parental decision-making skills.

A private business can do anything they want. They can refuse me service whether they want me to have the vaccine or not to admit me. That's their business.

As far as the Cirrus owners, are you trying to argue they shouldn't be allowed to pull their chute since it drives your insurance up? To be fair, I haven't been to the hospital since I was 5 or used any insurance in the last seven years. I would have to be dying before I'd go to the hospital, so it probably wouldn't be too much of a burden for you.

Totally off topic, and I hope not to cause the thread to be locked, but am I the only one who finds the argument above to be horribly ironic in that in the vaccination context it often used by the same people who dismiss almost the exact same argument/verbiage when used in support of women's free choice of contraception methods?

The only horrible irony I see is the equation of killing an undeveloped child (assuming that abortion in all it's shades is the specific contraception you're speaking of) with an argument over a vaccine for a disease that kills people, yes, but by no means everyone. By the way, I don't dismiss that argument, but I dismiss the timing of that argument. My opinion on that is, it's my body and if I am not married and in a good position to have a child, I'm sure you can guess what I'm not allowing to be put into my body! The woman makes a choice when she has sex (and I'm really only addressing normal situations here). That's when the "my body, my choice" should be made. The choice has been made already when she's pregnant. Nobody has to have sex, and I'm dismissing that "my body, my choice" argument based on that.

Now, before I get too worked up and end up banning myself, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

I don't hold New York as a good example of just about anything, so that point is rather moot to me, sorry. At least some states still honor parental decision-making skills.

A private business can do anything they want. They can refuse me service whether they want me to have the vaccine or not to admit me. That's their business.

As far as the Cirrus owners, are you trying to argue they shouldn't be allowed to pull their chute since it drives your insurance up? To be fair, I haven't been to the hospital since I was 5 or used any insurance in the last seven years. I would have to be dying before I'd go to the hospital, so it probably wouldn't be too much of a burden for you.



The only horrible irony I see is the equation of killing an undeveloped child (assuming that abortion in all it's shades is the specific contraception you're speaking of) with an argument over a vaccine for a disease that kills people, yes, but by no means everyone. By the way, I don't dismiss that argument, but I dismiss the timing of that argument. My opinion on that is, it's my body and if I am not married and in a good position to have a child, I'm sure you can guess what I'm not allowing to be put into my body! The woman makes a choice when she has sex (and I'm really only addressing normal situations here). That's when the "my body, my choice" should be made. The choice has been made already when she's pregnant. Nobody has to have sex, and I'm dismissing that "my body, my choice" argument based on that.

Now, before I get too worked up and end up banning myself, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

That is a good choice, because I believe that you just made his point.

 

[PaulS]

I don't hold New York as a good example of just about anything, so that point is rather moot to me, sorry. At least some states still honor parental decision-making skills.

A private business can do anything they want. They can refuse me service whether they want me to have the vaccine or not to admit me. That's their business.

As far as the Cirrus owners, are you trying to argue they shouldn't be allowed to pull their chute since it drives your insurance up? To be fair, I haven't been to the hospital since I was 5 or used any insurance in the last seven years. I would have to be dying before I'd go to the hospital, so it probably wouldn't be too much of a burden for you.



The only horrible irony I see is the equation of killing an undeveloped child (assuming that abortion in all it's shades is the specific contraception you're speaking of) with an argument over a vaccine for a disease that kills people, yes, but by no means everyone. By the way, I don't dismiss that argument, but I dismiss the timing of that argument. My opinion on that is, it's my body and if I am not married and in a good position to have a child, I'm sure you can guess what I'm not allowing to be put into my body! The woman makes a choice when she has sex (and I'm really only addressing normal situations here). That's when the "my body, my choice" should be made. The choice has been made already when she's pregnant. Nobody has to have sex, and I'm dismissing that "my body, my choice" argument based on that.

Now, before I get too worked up and end up banning myself, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

You are a smart lady, well said.

 

[NoBShere]

Some very different opinions here but, good discourse. What happened to the real POA?

 

[masloki]

Okie, wishing you well, and fast enough recovery you load the fam and a guitar in the 182 and get up to 6Y9 this Labor Day.

 

[Morgan3820]

I was just at my kids pediatrician yesterday.

She (doctor) asked a parent "Are you going to get vaccinated?"
The answer was "The vaccine is not FDA approved, so I'll wait."
She asked "When the vaccine is fully FDA approved in October are you going to get it?"
The answer was "No, I don't really trust the FDA."

These excuses are just that - excuses.

I would call them choices. In the left screams ‘my body my choice’ when talking about abortion that’s OK but when it comes to the vaccination I say my ‘choice my body’ no no that’s not applicable. Whether a person gets a vaccine or not has no direct affect upon a vaccinated person. You say, well I can get the disease from them. You can get the disease from a person who is vaccinated too. which apparently is why I have to wear a mask even though I’m vaccinated. I’m not anti-VAX I’m just anti-people telling me how to live my life when their life is often FUBAR.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Since we love one off anecdotes around here...

The vaccine will not keep you from getting COVID or prevent the spread of the virus.

My son (too young to vaccinate) tested positive and was sick with COVID. The other 3 in our house are vaccinated. We tested negative and did not get sick.

The vaccine works as advertised (which it does not advertise full immunity btw).

 

[Matthew Rogers]

I would call them choices. In the left screams ‘my body my choice’ when talking about abortion that’s OK but when it comes to the vaccination I say my ‘choice my body’ no no that’s not applicable. Whether a person gets a vaccine or not has no direct affect upon a vaccinated person. You say, well I can get the disease from them. You can get the disease from a person who is vaccinated too. which apparently is why I have to wear a mask even though I’m vaccinated. I’m not anti-VAX I’m just anti-people telling me how to live my life when their life is often FUBAR.

No, that example is a clear description of using an excuse as opposed to stating a personal choice or firm reasoning behind the choice. The parent could easily have said "I am not getting vaccinated because I choose not to", but instead used an excuse - that the FDA has not approved the vaccine yet. When questioned about that excuse, the parent offered up another excuse of "I don't trust the FDA", contradicting her first excuse that placed the ball in their court to approve the vaccine.

If every anti-vaxxer simply stated "I choose not to get the vaccine because it is a personal choice, regardless of any information, science, or data presented", then the Pro-vax side would not have any ammunition to fight that argument directly, other than presenting science, facts, and data, which they know will not really change any opinions.

Instead, there are often misrepresented data, lies, contrary stances (my body, my choice) presented as the "reasons/excuses" that anti-vaxxers use.

 

[bflynn]

Since we love one off anecdotes around here...



My son (too young to vaccinate) tested positive and was sick with COVID. The other 3 in our house are vaccinated. We tested negative and did not get sick.

The vaccine works as advertised (which it does not advertise full immunity btw).

how many anecdotes before it becomes data?

my brother’s family went through it. Two serious cases, three non serious ones. Today, three of them are seeing heart doctors. Apparently my brother and two children have a vulnerable gene that promotes heart problems and the virus exposed it. This was before vaccines were available.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Funny story....my oldest son, 27, thought he was gonna be the only one not to get it. He wore a surgical mask in the house from the time the youngest son, 22, got it....till he "thought" my daughter was done with it. A week or so later....he took the mask off.....he was finally the last to go down. lol. He now thinks had he continued with the mask he might have avoided the virus. But in the end we are all very grateful to have natural immunity...which we believe, based on Israeli studies, are slightly better, than vaccination for various reasons - a learned immunal response of the complete virus not just the spike protein.

Since we love one off anecdotes around here...



My son (too young to vaccinate) tested positive and was sick with COVID. The other 3 in our house are vaccinated. We tested negative and did not get sick.

The vaccine works as advertised (which it does not advertise full immunity btw).

 

[Chip Sylverne]

The only horrible irony I see is the equation of killing an undeveloped child (assuming that abortion in all it's shades is the specific contraception you're speaking of) with an argument over a vaccine for a disease that kills people, yes, but by no means everyone. By the way, I don't dismiss that argument, but I dismiss the timing of that argument. My opinion on that is, it's my body and if I am not married and in a good position to have a child, I'm sure you can guess what I'm not allowing to be put into my body! The woman makes a choice when she has sex (and I'm really only addressing normal situations here). That's when the "my body, my choice" should be made. The choice has been made already when she's pregnant. Nobody has to have sex, and I'm dismissing that "my body, my choice" argument based on that.

Now, before I get too worked up and end up banning myself, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

While I respect your reasoning, there are instances where the woman did not make the choice to have consensual sex, yet the prohibition on what she does with her body remains. To require a woman to carry to term an unwanted child under one set of circumstance, but not the other, seems to be a violation of equal rights.

 

[Morgan3820]

I haven’t got it yet. Which is kind of ironic because I’ve done very little to avoid it. In fact my wife who is a RN on the Covid ward hasn’t gotten it yet either. I have acquaintances who have locked themselves up in the house for the last year, get it. We’re all going to get it. it’s just a matter of time.

 

[Morgan3820]

While I respect your reasoning, there are instances where the woman did not make the choice to have consensual sex, yet the prohibition on what she does with her body remains. To require a woman to carry to term an unwanted child under one set of circumstance, but not the other, seems to be a violation of equal rights.

First, she qualified it as ‘normal circumstances’, meaning consensual.
Second she said that she bailed out of the thread, so you’re talking to yourself.
But if it makes you feel better, don’t let me stop you.

 

[Lindberg]

Since we love one off anecdotes around here...

My son (too young to vaccinate) tested positive and was sick with COVID. The other 3 in our house are vaccinated. We tested negative and did not get sick.

The vaccine works as advertised (which it does not advertise full immunity btw).

My wife got it, before vaccines. We all quarantined at home. We spent hours a day in the sabre room, but we wore masks when we went in and we washed our hands when we left. None of the rest of us got it.

 

[Kansas Flyer]

While I respect your reasoning, there are instances where the woman did not make the choice to have consensual sex, yet the prohibition on what she does with her body remains. To require a woman to carry to term an unwanted child under one set of circumstance, but not the other, seems to be a violation of equal rights.

I assume you are talking about instances where the woman was raped. In that case I like a point my wife made "Just because a crime is committed against me doesn't give me the right to commit another crime against an innocent".

Since we're now off on a rabbit trail and I'd rather not get what has been a good discussion locked that's the last I have to say about the subject.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

But if it makes you feel better, don’t let me stop you.

You can bet on that.

 

[eman1200]

 

[MauleSkinner]

VAERS data comes with this disclaimer. It is a lot like the NASA reports. I can submit a NASA report that I hit a flock of flamingos after taking off from Greenland in my ultralight. Or I could submit that I jumped out of my airplane and managed to fall back into the cockpit on the way down, but ATC got mad at me for not reporting my change in altitude! I could also submit 1000 reports to VAERS that I got athlete's foot from the COVID vaccine.

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified (*underline is from the original site) reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyone and can be submitted electronically at www.vaers.hhs.gov.

While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. Most reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.
Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

• Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.
• Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
• The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.
• VAERS data are limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.
• VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.

Oddly enough, the same disclaimer should probably be applied to COVID deaths…

 

[Rushie]

IBTL

 

[azblackbird]

I haven’t got it yet. Which is kind of ironic because I’ve done very little to avoid it. In fact my wife who is a RN on the Covid ward hasn’t gotten it yet either. I have acquaintances who have locked themselves up in the house for the last year, get it. We’re all going to get it. it’s just a matter of time.

Same here. My SO had it, and several people I work with had it. I figure if I was going to get it I’d already had it by now. So maybe my natural immunity is pretty strong. I can’t recall the last time I’ve been sick. I’ve had the flu, I’ve had mumps, and have had chicken pox in my early years. Since my early teens I’ve had nothing but minor colds or a fever here and there which usually breaks within a couple hours. I’m with you, I think eventually everybody’s going to get it in some shape form or another whether they have been vaccinated or not. The severity depends on whether they have other underlying issues or how strong their natural immune system is. One thing for sure I’m definitely not gonna let all this BS stop me from living my life.