Question on ILS/LOC 33 for KFZY

[rookie1255]

The note on the plate says NA for using SYR Vortac when southbound on V29. If this is the case then how can I practice full approaches coming from the north? There are no other IAFs.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Grum.Man]

You would get radar vectors from ATC.

 

[RussR]

Short answer? You can't. But it's understandable - look at the degree of turn required from V29 - literally 359 degrees. How would you even do that?

But if you really want to practice the full procedure, get yourself to the south of the SYR VORTAC somehow (vectors, painful airway routing, whatever), and do it from there.

You don't have to get very far south of the SYR VORTAC to make that work, really any distance will do.

 

[Grum.Man]

Short answer? You can't. But it's understandable - look at the degree of turn required from V29 - literally 359 degrees. How would you even do that?

Sure you can, just approach the IAF off the airway. Fly south off set from the VOR then intercept and finish the approach.

 

[RussR]

Sure you can, just approach the IAF off the airway. Fly south off set from the VOR then intercept and finish the approach.

Yeah, I'll buy that. I was inferring from the way the question was worded that the OP wanted to stay on airways.

 

[luvflyin]

Yeah, I'll buy that. I was inferring from the way the question was worded that the OP wanted to stay on airways.

@rookie1255

If that's the case just ask for and get approval for a Hold South of SYR. I'd pick on the 197 radial and do a Tear Drop Entry. That would be a good 'whatever' in your "(vectors, painful airway routing, whatever)" above. Lots of Approaches have Arrival Holds Charted to accomplish just this and allow the Controller to just say 'as published' instead of the whole holding spiel. Those are usually on RNAV Approaches though, where the intercept is more than 90 degrees and Military TACAN Approaches with IAF's that begin on a DME Arc

 

[midlifeflyer]

As posted, there are a number of ways to do this. Other than VTF, the point is only to get to SYR via a route which does not involve V29 southbound and which ATC won't balk at being too sharp.

 

[dtuuri]

The note on the plate says NA for using SYR Vortac when southbound on V29. If this is the case then how can I practice full approaches coming from the north?

Or, what would you do if you were lost comm and had filed V29 SYR? Assuming you didn't have RNAV and didn't know what altitudes and speed restrictions might apply to SYR for an unpublished hold, you could file a route via V29 SYR V483 WACOR Direct. Now, you might have a bit of trouble (I did) figuring out the distance to WACOR from SYR, but you can see the distance camouflaged by the VOR circle if you squint hard. It's seven DME. After WACOR, you'd go direct to the IAF (SYR) and just make your approach. I would utilize the holding pattern at WACOR for making my turn around.

 

[MuseChaser]

Or, what would you do if you were lost comm and had filed V29 SYR? Assuming you didn't have RNAV and didn't know what altitudes and speed restrictions might apply to SYR for an unpublished hold, you could file a route via V29 SYR V483 WACOR Direct. Now, you might have a bit of trouble (I did) figuring out the distance to WACOR from SYR, but you can see the distance camouflaged by the VOR circle if you squint hard. It's seven DME. After WACOR, you'd go direct to the IAF (SYR) and just make your approach. I would utilize the holding pattern at WACOR for making my turn around.

Make sense. Distance to WACOR from SYR not indicated directly, but rather calculated by subtracting indicated 7nm distance from LYSAN to WACOR from indicated total/running 14nm distance from SYR to LYSAN, yes? Just asking to make sure I'm not missing anything..

 

[RussR]

Make sense. Distance to WACOR from SYR not indicated directly, but rather calculated by subtracting indicated 7nm distance from LYSAN to WACOR from indicated total/running 14nm distance from SYR to LYSAN, yes? Just asking to make sure I'm not missing anything..

No, the 7 DME to WACOR is actually depicted, it's just overlapped by the SYR Class C light blue shading. Look right under the "2" in the longitude for WACOR.

 

[MuseChaser]

Wooof.. that's hard to see. Took me a LONG time to find it, even with your very specific hint. Looked more like just a slight thickening of the Class C outline. Once you see it, it's easy to see. Dang... and thanks.

 

[EdFred]

I swear this same question was asked not too long on here.
(I guess it was SYR -> KART)

 

[luvflyin]

I swear this same question was asked not too long on here.
(I guess it was SYR -> KART)

Yeah. And that pesky ol' unusable radials thang is rearing it's ugly head again. Near as I can tell V29 is unusable between PAGER and SYR unless ya gots RNAV

 

[luvflyin]

Or, what would you do if you were lost comm and had filed V29 SYR? Assuming you didn't have RNAV and didn't know what altitudes and speed restrictions might apply to SYR for an unpublished hold, you could file a route via V29 SYR V483 WACOR Direct. Now, you might have a bit of trouble (I did) figuring out the distance to WACOR from SYR, but you can see the distance camouflaged by the VOR circle if you squint hard. It's seven DME. After WACOR, you'd go direct to the IAF (SYR) and just make your approach. I would utilize the holding pattern at WACOR for making my turn around.

Good question on the Lost Comm. If your last Clearance received was ...V29 SYR KFZY, you'd be in AIM 6-4-1 a. territory. FAR 91.185 itself isn't going to cover it. The WACOR thing might be a choice to make. If my last assigned altitude was 3700 or above I'd probably do a roll your own holding pattern as I described above in post #6

 

[dtuuri]

If your last Clearance received was ...V29 SYR KFZY, you'd be in AIM 6-4-1 a. territory. FAR 91.185 itself isn't going to cover it.

Which is why, I suppose, the FAA recommends IFR flights should be planned from the perspective of a possible comm failure at any point.