Question on FAR/AIM for Oral

fiftiesdean

fiftiesdean

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Dean
I have a Gleim 2014 FAR/AIM. I have meticulously tabbed and highlighted it, and now it's 2015. Is this a deal breaker for my Oral?
 
Sorry Dean. Rules change. On a PPL oral this might lead to a discussion, and as long as you can locate the current regs, you'd likely be OK. a CPL, ATP or CFI ride and you're in Pink Slip territory, the moment you walk in the door. ForeFlight allows you to automatically update the docs in its library, commercial providers (Gleim et al) offer hard copy subscriptions. The 2015 edition cam out in September IIRC..
Good luck on your ride..
neilki ATP/CFI
 
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Its always best to have current data (charts, books etc..) for a checkride. If your checkride is like tomorrow, I'm sure you will be fine. Search/Study some of the changes for 2015 to make sure you are covered if any of your highlighted stuff has changed. Get a digital copy to reference if needed. If you have some time before the checkride, I would get the book and have it with you. Good luck!
 
Amazon Prime for the win. Re-tabbing and highlighting will undoubtedly help my knowledge absorption.
 
Edit : beat me to it ^^^


This happened to me for the CFI practical. I just bought the new edition and used it as another opportunity to get more familiar while I meticulously tabbed my new copy. It was more meticulous than the prior year and I had better knowledge of where to locate stuff due to recency.
 
The printed FAR/AIM can be out of date before it hits the publisher. But I'd think if you do bring in a printed copy, you're probably best off to bring in the latest version.

You could still use your tabbed/highlighted 2014, then use the same section numbers to reference the 2015 regs. Normally, the publishers will change bars in the margins to show differences between current and previous issues.
 
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fiftiesdean said:
I have a Gleim 2014 FAR/AIM. I have meticulously tabbed and highlighted it, and now it's 2015. Is this a deal breaker for my Oral?
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Not really. The oral isn't the written, it is variable and knowledge based. The material you have studied is all completely relevant in 2015 as it was in 2014 with the exception of any rule changes that may have been imposed recently, you won't likely fail for not knowing one.

The key element to passing the oral is to admit when you don't know something and cite the reference where you would find it. "I'm not sure on that, I would have to look that up in the ...." The examiners have been instructed to make the oral more scenario based as well, so that should be helpful. If you know the material, you will pass the oral regardless how you studied.
 
Someone mentioned an electronic version within ForeFlight.

Another well executed electronic version is the FAR/AIM app published by ASA. The search, bookmark, and study features are very well done and my favorites.
 
Henning said:
Not really. The oral isn't the written, it is variable and knowledge based. The material you have studied is all completely relevant in 2015 as it was in 2014 with the exception of any rule changes that may have been imposed recently, you won't likely fail for not knowing one.

The key element to passing the oral is to admit when you don't know something and cite the reference where you would find it. "I'm not sure on that, I would have to look that up in the ...." The examiners have been instructed to make the oral more scenario based as well, so that should be helpful. If you know the material, you will pass the oral regardless how you studied.
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Maybe it was just my DPE and his style - but we did have a "discussion". This was before the new scenario-based exams. It wasn't him trying to catch me by knowingly asking me to recite a reg that he knew had recently changed. That didn't come up, but he was/is the type that would ask about something and 'why' it was that way. If you know the 'what', but not the 'why', that was all he needed to start another discussion. I know the DPE isn't supposed to instruct, but a good one can examine in such a way that you not only show that you do know the material, but that you also come away knowing something new.
 
Henning said:
Not really. The oral isn't the written, it is variable and knowledge based. The material you have studied is all completely relevant in 2015 as it was in 2014 with the exception of any rule changes that may have been imposed recently, you won't likely fail for not knowing one.

The key element to passing the oral is to admit when you don't know something and cite the reference where you would find it. "I'm not sure on that, I would have to look that up in the ...." The examiners have been instructed to make the oral more scenario based as well, so that should be helpful. If you know the material, you will pass the oral regardless how you studied.
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This.
 
I have a silly question. I realize we are to know this stuff, but are we required to actually own/possess a copy of the FAR/AIM? A friend of mine said we are required to have it, but I cant find where that regulation is.
 
JasonM said:
I have a silly question. I realize we are to know this stuff, but are we required to actually own/possess a copy of the FAR/AIM? A friend of mine said we are required to have it, but I cant find where that regulation is.
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You do not need to have one. Ask him to show you the regulation that says that. Although it is useful to have but in this day andage where everything is available online for free I wouldn't purchase a new FAR/AIM every year.
 
JasonM said:
I have a silly question. I realize we are to know this stuff, but are we required to actually own/possess a copy of the FAR/AIM? A friend of mine said we are required to have it, but I cant find where that regulation is.
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Here is the deal, "You are to have all relevant information pertinent to your flight." Like many FARs, the rule is written with a bunch of rope with which to hang yourself. If you know all the pertinent information in your head, that is sufficient for flying. If you didn't know it and it caused an issue, now is a good time to have everything.
 
For flying, you are not required to possess or own one. The FAA mandate for knowing all information pertinent to flight applies to PREFLIGHT planning. You could have the printed publications (either from the FAA directly or from one of the commercial publishers) or just have access to the internet copy (downloaded or not).

For the flight tests the test standards mandates current AIM, AF/D, and appropriate publications.

It doesn't say anything about the FARS unless you want to include them in "appropriate publications." Frankly, I would for many of the flight tests.

Note that the annualized "FAR/AIM" is a figment of the publishers like ASA and TAB. The AIM is published every other year with updates every six months in between. The FAR is PRINTED annually (since it is 14 CFR it's schedule comes out in January) but the actual regulations are updated as the rule making procedure creates new ones.

It's unclear (maybe BobMrg can enlighten us) when ASA puts out their 2015 book and based on what versions of the underlying documents.

Perhaps an overly obnoxious DPE will fault you for having a book that says 2014 when we are 40 days into 2015, but to those bastards I'd state I had reviewed the revisions to the publications that have subsequently come out and found them to be inconsequential to today's flight.

In fact, the FARs these days change RARELY. When a substantive change comes out you usually here about it. You can read about the AIM changes on the FAA AIM publication site. Plus the new PDFs on the site have change bars to let you know what is different (when it is of any substance).
 
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My practical test standards booklet for private pilot included a list of personal equipment required for the private pilot applicant.
PERSONAL EQUIPMENT:
View-Limiting Device
Current Aeronautical Charts
Computer and Plotter
Flight Plan Form
Flight Logs
Current AIM, Airport Facility Directory, and Appropriate Publications
I would recommend a current AIM because it is specified.
I found value in studying the practical test standards.
Good luck!
 
fiftiesdean said:
The PTS states "Current AIM, Airport Facility Directory, and Appropriate Publications"
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That's in a checklist of what to bring. I can't see that reasonable examiner would fail someone who uses electronic access to the AIM at https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/. Just bring an iPad so you can access it. Changes for the current AIM are summarized there as well, nothing significant.

Technically, a 2015 ASA AIM book is already not current.


When you're there, stop and enjoy the moment. Then get back to it :)
 
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bflynn said:
Technically, a 2015 ASA AIM book is already not current.
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Last change notice came out 1/8/2015. The ASA book was published in AUGUST of 2014. Presumably they included the July AIM update, but perhaps not.

In their defense, they do offer an email update service for when it changes (also available on their website for download). Actually looking at the update, it appears the 2015 book must include Change 1 (7/2015).

The update is nicely highlighted as to what changed.
 
Also, I just noted that in the Jan 8th AIM change, the FAA (finally) added Lockheed Martin Flight Services as a source of weather. Perhaps that begs the question as to whether even the current AIM is current.

Amazon says the 2015 ASA version of the FAR/AIM was published Sept 9, 2014. It does not include Change 2 from Jan 8.
 
bflynn said:
Also, I just noted that in the Jan 8th AIM change, the FAA (finally) added Lockheed Martin Flight Services as a source of weather. Perhaps that begs the question as to whether even the current AIM is current.

Amazon says the 2015 ASA version of the FAR/AIM was published Sept 9, 2014. It does not include Change 2 from Jan 8.
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The current AIM is current (except perhaps for important changes which might be the subject of NOTAM — I don;t recall ever seeing one). But the most recent third-party republication of the AIM in book form might not be.

The discrepancy is usually greater with the FAR since the AIM at least has a publication schedule that I think the third-party publishers take into consideration when they release the following year's version. But the FAR portion is usually out-of-date when it hits the stands.
 
flyingron said:
For flying, you are not required to possess or own one. The FAA mandate for knowing all information pertinent to flight applies to PREFLIGHT planning. You could have the printed publications (either from the FAA directly or from one of the commercial publishers) or just have access to the internet copy (downloaded or not).

For the flight tests the test standards mandates current AIM, AF/D, and appropriate publications.

It doesn't say anything about the FARS unless you want to include them in "appropriate publications." Frankly, I would for many of the flight tests.

Note that the annualized "FAR/AIM" is a figment of the publishers like ASA and TAB. The AIM is published every other year with updates every six months in between. The FAR is PRINTED annually (since it is 14 CFR it's schedule comes out in January) but the actual regulations are updated as the rule making procedure creates new ones.

It's unclear (maybe BobMrg can enlighten us) when ASA puts out their 2015 book and based on what versions of the underlying documents.

Perhaps an overly obnoxious DPE will fault you for having a book that says 2014 when we are 40 days into 2015, but to those bastards I'd state I had reviewed the revisions to the publications that have subsequently come out and found them to be inconsequential to today's flight.

In fact, the FARs these days change RARELY. When a substantive change comes out you usually here about it. You can read about the AIM changes on the FAA AIM publication site. Plus the new PDFs on the site have change bars to let you know what is different (when it is of any substance).
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The ASA FAR/AIM that says 2015 on the cover began shipping in August 2014. They provide updates at www.asa2fly.com, Resources, Updates, and the last update was January 15. Figure on the 2016 book coming out in August.

They scour every issue of the Federal Register to see if there are any regulatory changes pertaining to aviation and include those changes in the Update. AIM changes are not printed in the Federal Register but are available online at www.faa.gov....so they look there, too. Obviously, changes will occur after a book has been printed (and after an update has been published) and there is no way around that. An update is a snapshot and could possibly be obsolete the day after it was published.

As a DE back in the day, I would not have freaked out if an applicant showed up with last year's edition if s/he was aware of significant changes and I surely wouldn't have popped any trick questions of the sort suggested by other posters.

Bob
 
Yep, bob. If one goes to the ASA page for their 2015 FAR AIM and open the change file you'll see a very nicely done update that tells you what changed (Update 2 of the AIM and some FAR changes). They also included in the original print book the proposed changes to the ATP training rules even though they hadn't been issued at press time.

It's not very many pages, if you're carrying a ASA FAR/AIM it's easy enough to print it off and stuff it in the back of the book. Even if you're not using ASA's products, it's a nice update of what has changed since last summer.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The current AIM is current (except perhaps for important changes which might be the subject of NOTAM — I don;t recall ever seeing one). But the most recent third-party republication of the AIM in book form might not be.
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Darn it, my humor was too subtle again.

I've been getting official weather briefings from Lockheed for at least 5 years now? It's taken the FAA until now to add them to the list in the AIM. So even the current AIM is missing or contains outdated information. Hence it is not current with the current state of flying.

Oh, just forget it. Yes, the current AIM is current.
 
Buy a new FAR/AIM. If you are serious about aviation then keeping current charts etc. is part of the deal.
 
cwoods798 said:
Buy a new FAR/AIM. If you are serious about aviation then keeping current charts etc. is part of the deal.
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Meh.. As time goes on, I find that keeping up to the moment current on publications is not particularly necessary.
 
Dude, if you're too lazy or cheap to buy a new FAR/AIM for a frickin CHECKRIDE, just stop now.

Do I think you'd get pink slipped for it, not really, do I think it would be setting a really bad tone for the ride, heck yeah!




Just order a new paper one (better for checkrides IMO) and transfer the tabs, it's going to be more or less the same page numbers anyways, I've done this more than a few times, still using my old tabs too!

You're talking like 10 bucks and 15 minutes of your time.


Now days I have a digital FAR/AIM on my ipad, I still have a old FAR/AIM tabbed on my shelf, just incase I take another ride and need to transfer again.
 
(watch this)

...you know what I like to see? An old, maybe 3- 4 year old dog eared ratty but tabbed publication of the FAR/AIM with all the changes that have it occurred in those years (part 91 & 61) pen & ink changed in the old familiar book.
That means that person is really keeping up.
 
nosehair said:
(watch this)

...you know what I like to see? An old, maybe 3- 4 year old dog eared ratty but tabbed publication of the FAR/AIM with all the changes that have it occurred in those years (part 91 & 61) pen & ink changed in the old familiar book.
That means that person is really keeping up.
Click to expand...

Or the student doesn't utilize his time and resources time very well lol
 
AggieMike88 said:
Someone mentioned an electronic version within ForeFlight.

Another well executed electronic version is the FAR/AIM app published by ASA. The search, bookmark, and study features are very well done and my favorites.
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I second that vote. In my recent regional interview I made use of the Tools option that automatically organizes the materials according to the rating you seek. Nice feature!
 
nosehair said:
(watch this)

...you know what I like to see? An old, maybe 3- 4 year old dog eared ratty but tabbed publication of the FAR/AIM with all the changes that have it occurred in those years (part 91 & 61) pen & ink changed in the old familiar book.
That means that person is really keeping up.
Click to expand...

That's downright a waste of time.
 
You never have to buy one if you have a computer. You can access it on a PC from the FAA web site, and you can download it in Documents on ForeFlight (and then it auto-updates, too).
 
You can also use the eCFR page and have the most current every time you look.
 
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