Question: Career as a Female Pilot?

OK, Lea, read all that, and from your comments here, it is obvious that you are on-task and on-track. I'd never bet against you!

We have some good folks here who can give some sound ideas and experience, and you're already getting in touch. Everskyward is one (if I did not love her so much, I'd hate her with envy!); so is Laurie - flying big, honkin' helos to rigs in near-hurricane weather is... it appears... "women's work," which means, "work for the top of the skill set."

Find the place that fits you and your personality (and it really does sound like you're on your way), and push hard. And please, by all means, keep us posted here on your plans, dreams, progress. After 11 years of PoA-ing, it's funny how we've managed to develop some pretty stout friendships and connections. I've personally watched careers hatched and flourish here, as a direct result of folks being here - and there is one marriage with children that started here, too (both pilots, of course).

Look forward to meeting you some day... and congratulating you on your success!

/s/Spike

Lea Marie Medina said:
I came back late, my apologies.

1) I can't enlist due to a surgery I had. It's not disqualifying according to the FAA medicals, but it's enough to bar me from ever going into military aviation (dishonor to my family).

2) Farmingdale SUNY is a Part 141. I won't be in a lot of debt, on my way out. If I even did get into debt, I'd be able to pay it off in less than a year and have a house at the same time... (I guess timing really is of essence; I've never seen such an opportunity like this ever and I don't see any hugely impacting reason to turn it down).

3) I just asked for female CFI's because that's the gender category under which I was told to ask. I already have a male CFI friend from FSUNY, but I still have to talk to a woman for this paper because he doesn't believe all of what the job encompasses (and in his eyes, especially for a woman).

4) Was going to quote Confucius on work.

5) I mean, I'm still taking up Econ and maybe ATC work because I love working with radio equipment (VHF/Yaesu user), but all in all, I do have backup plans that are good, but not much of what I would actually see myself doing for years on end. Happily, at least. I know that some female ATP have hard times being with family, and I understand that it stresses out both financially and socially. The input is extremely valuable, even from the male perspective.

6) @Cajun_Flyer do you mind if I PM you when I get the chance to?

7) Gramercy to all! Still need ready contacts... Will keep reading the comments on my thread as the points build up.

8) FAA doesn't x-ray you, right? So far, I only see the need for glasses. Otherwise, I'm A-OK and just have to get a bit of a booster. :p
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Forrest Hills is pretty close to Republic Airport. You could also hit up SUNY Purchase and do some flying out of KHPN. If you're looking into career flying, you could also consider your military options. Reserve/Guard units especially since they they fly big iron already.

If not, get your degree and get a job working the line or dispatch at a local airport or FBO. Get to know people at and around the airport. They'll see you as a good, hard working person. Quality people are easy to spot and others are usually willing to help quality people.
 
James331 said:
5 years from now when you're drowning in debt, when you can't find a good job, it's not because men are holding you down, or wall street, it will be because you decided to blow money you didn't have on a degree that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making a paycheck.

Sorry if it seems like I'm busting your chops here, but this is a epidemic problem in youth today, pointless degrees and HS education which only preps them for said useless degrees, resulting in a labor force that hits the market unprepared, uneducated on anything that society needs (see will pay for), strapped with debt and without the tools to get out of said debt, and living in a "I'm a victim" dream.
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Oh for flip's sake. I got a bachelor's degree in Vocal Performance and haven't taken a math class since 10th grade of high school. I worked on Wall St for 10 years as an International Risk Officer now I'm in freaking IT as a Sr. Business Analyst. In my experience, your undergrad is no more than a rigor. It's a piece of paper that says you did it. Beyond that, it doesn't mean a whole lot unless you're going into a very specialized field. If she has the means and the smarts, then yes, absolutely she should go to college. Get that degree.

I think we can temper some of this bullsh!t rugged American turbo pilot stuff. This "kids these days" attitude persists from generation to generation. Kids these days are fine, I'd argue that many of them are learning harder lessons than we did as Boomers and Gen X'rs. They've been fed this American Dream BS so long it's become an expectation because that's what we've told them. She's showing interest in aviation. Awesome. I think you're way out of line when you start accusing her of being sexist and then later a product of some perceived generational screw up.
 
labbadabba said:
Oh for flip's sake. I got a bachelor's degree in Vocal Performance and haven't taken a math class since 10th grade of high school. I worked on Wall St for 10 years as an International Risk Officer now I'm in freaking IT as a Sr. Business Analyst. In my experience, your undergrad is no more than a rigor. It's a piece of paper that says you did it. Beyond that, it doesn't mean a whole lot unless you're going into a very specialized field. If she has the means and the smarts, then yes, absolutely she should go to college. Get that degree.

I think we can temper some of this bullsh!t rugged American turbo pilot stuff. This "kids these days" attitude persists from generation to generation. Kids these days are fine, I'd argue that many of them are learning harder lessons than we did as Boomers and Gen X'rs. They've been fed this American Dream BS so long it's become an expectation because that's what we've told them. She's showing interest in aviation. Awesome. I think you're way out of line when you start accusing her of being sexist and then later a product of some perceived generational screw up.
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So spend close to 6 figures for that worthless piece of paper?

Or go to school for something that leads direct to a good paying job, like being a RN

Or get into the trades where you get paid to learn and end up making as much, if not more, than many soft shoed intellectuals
 
James331 said:
So spend close to 6 figures for that worthless piece of paper?
Or go to school for something that leads direct to a good paying job, like being a RN
Or get into the trades where you get paid to learn and end up making as much, if not more, than many soft shoed intellectuals
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Not worthless at all. That's the whole point. That piece of paper gets you through the door in so many ways. Beyond that it's up to you really.
Being a RN is fine if that's where you want to take your life. But who at 17 REALLY knows what they want to do much less what they'll actually end up doing? Those fortunate few can choose an education specific to their life goals. Some choose to generalize, others do what they love and figure out a way to survive beyond that.
Trades are great, if again, that's what you want to do. If you want to be an A&P or a mechanic or a carpenter, or dig holes for a living, great. But if she's wanting to fly with the airlines or even in the military, she's going to need a degree almost certainly.

To actively discourage and disparage a 16-17 year-old that doesn't fit your bush pilot sensibility makes us look like a bunch of old, angry, get-off-my-lawn, a-holes.
 
I am really glad that the internet was not a thing when I was 16 and looking for answers.

I think POA is a great place for pilots who have some experience to come to and add to their knowledge and hear differing points of view on various topics. Hopefully with a bit of pre-existing knowledge and experience, one can separate out the good advice from the ridiculous and also learn from the so-so advice. I know that I have. However, I do fear at times that the newbie, especially a youngster, will be worse off for posing their question or seeking advice here. I am not saying that good advice is not offered here but sometimes the diamond is buried in manure.
 
labbadabba said:
Oh for flip's sake. I got a bachelor's degree in Vocal Performance and haven't taken a math class since 10th grade of high school. I worked on Wall St for 10 years as an International Risk Officer now I'm in freaking IT as a Sr. Business Analyst. In my experience, your undergrad is no more than a rigor. It's a piece of paper that says you did it. Beyond that, it doesn't mean a whole lot unless you're going into a very specialized field. If she has the means and the smarts, then yes, absolutely she should go to college. Get that degree.

I think we can temper some of this bullsh!t rugged American turbo pilot stuff. This "kids these days" attitude persists from generation to generation. Kids these days are fine, I'd argue that many of them are learning harder lessons than we did as Boomers and Gen X'rs. They've been fed this American Dream BS so long it's become an expectation because that's what we've told them. She's showing interest in aviation. Awesome. I think you're way out of line when you start accusing her of being sexist and then later a product of some perceived generational screw up.
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boy....you sound like you're real proud of yourself....:eek:
 
labbadabba said:
To actively discourage and disparage a 16-17 year-old that doesn't fit your bush pilot sensibility makes us look like a bunch of old, angry, get-off-my-lawn, a-holes.
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That's James. You'll 'nevah' get James to admit he's out of line or wrong. He does it all the time. You ain't shet if you don't fly a tail dragger...

Hopefully Lea can read thru the real BS!.jpe on this thread.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am really glad that the internet was not a thing when I was 16 and looking for answers.

I think POA is a great place for pilots who have some experience to come to and add to their knowledge and hear differing points of view on various topics. Hopefully with a bit of pre-existing knowledge and experience, one can separate out the good advice from the ridiculous and also learn from the so-so advice. I know that I have. However, I do fear at times that the newbie, especially a youngster, will be worse off for posing their question or seeking advice here. I am not saying that good advice is not offered here but sometimes the diamond is buried in manure.
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And we wonder why GA is dying.....
 
Lea Marie Medina said:
Hi, all. I'm new and happened to join a few days ago after pilots I knew didn't reply to my messages. I am in junior in high school and it's the time for me to start zoning in on a major I want to pursue. I fell in love with airplanes at an early age (thank the good ol' History Channel), and I said to myself at the age of 10 that I wanted to become a pilot. My father thought of it lightly, back then. He tried to convince me to be involved in a field that isn't so dominated by males (and I do see it changing; I'd love to show him wrong at some point :p ), but I still held fast to wanting to fly as a career because I didn't feel as if the work he set me out for would be fulfilling nor make me happy. Well, I am now 16 and I am at the controls of my own life-- much to his chagrin. He gave me one challenge: to talk to at least two female pilots and ask them about their lives and careers as pilots. I, personally, am interested in being a CFII at my local university with a four-year aviation course after graduation. My father still wants me to ask for a story from at least one person who flies for an airline. I would love it if a female CFII were to tell me about students and teaching methods... let's not forget the necessity of teaching the right things.

So please-- I know some of you are out there. Can you tell me about your pilot lifestyles, home/social lives, the paths to your careers, your experiences in flight school, any difficulties in finding work, relations with your counterparts, and any means of help you turned to? Me being able to attend this university is literally on the line. I will take my SAT in March 2017 so I can apply for the course early to ensure a seat in the class. I would also greatly appreciate it if we Skyped/ called over phone!

GRAMERCY!:oops:
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Coming in late, I haven't read to the bottom of the thread, so maybe you got some more female pilots to respond, but will throw my two cents worth in. The sexism has lessened to the point where there are a number of other careers where it is worse. I think it is worse in a lot of the tech industries, engineering, etc, than it is in aviation today. Aviation has the huge advantage of having more objective markers for ability. The airplane doesn't care the gender of the pilot. The plane will tell you and everyone else if you are flying it correctly. And flying is just fun, and you get paid for it. It is still fun after 37 years and thousands of hours. There are also a lot of little niches in the business so you have an opportunity to chose a lifestyle that suits.

I am a fan of getting ones ratings at the local FBO and getting a college degree in something that interests you and can be a back up. The aviation schools are a hot, quick ticket into the regional airlines, but they don't prepare you for anything else and you don't get a very broad aviation education. They also tend to put you six figures into debt unless your parents have been saving huge coin in your college fund. I recommend prioritizing getting your ratings and take college in your spare time, and then when you can work as an instructor, then put college on the front burner and fill in your time with students. That helps fund the college and gets the hours in the logbooks. It also provides you an opportunity to gain real world experience outside of the narrow, cloistered halls of the big aviation schools. But don't tell Embry-Riddle I said this as they might want their degree back.:)

Spending time as the airport as a student or an instructor came make you part of a community. You will find that people in the community will help you along. Our local airport has a pilot's association and gives scholarships which are often hard to give away as there are not enough young folks coming up. One of our local guys is at NoDak, but has been the recipient of a scholarship and right seat time in a Citationjet in exchange for helping clean the aircraft, etc. It wouldn't shock me if he was a captain by 30. Find a friendly social airport. Make friends, learn to fly, have fun, and get a degree. What could be better.

You can send me a PM if you would like my contact info. I spent the first half of my career to date instructing and flying charter and cargo. I am circling back to that for the end of my career.
 
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The examiner for my private pilot checkride in 1991 was a woman CFI.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
boy....you sound like you're real proud of yourself....:eek:
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I am, but that's not my point.

What I was saying is that your undergrad degree is just a ticket. It's proves that you have the mettle to achieve a major goal in life. Something tangible that you can point to. I related my own experience as an example that you don't know where you'll end up or how you'll get there.
 
I suspect he means Annabelle. I did my checkride with her in 2011. She retired a couple of years ago.
 
Yeah...in aviation (as in a lot of other fields) nobody cares if you're male or female. This is 2016. Hollywood and the media have to make up most of this "sexism" stuff to sell papers...seriously. Will you come across it? Yeah...you might. But will you going into aviation as a woman be like the lone Marine scout sneaking up to the back door of the enemy commander's hut? Nope.

Just go fly. :)
 
Kristin said:
I am a fan of getting ones ratings at the local FBO and getting a college degree in something that interests you and can be a back up. The aviation schools are a hot, quick ticket into the regional airlines, but they don't prepare you for anything else and you don't get a very broad aviation education. They also tend to put you six figures into debt unless your parents have been saving huge coin in your college fund. I recommend prioritizing getting your ratings and take college in your spare time, and then when you can work as an instructor, then put college on the front burner and fill in your time with students. That helps fund the college and gets the hours in the logbooks. It also provides you an opportunity to gain real world experience outside of the narrow, cloistered halls of the big aviation schools. But don't tell Embry-Riddle I said this as they might want their degree back.:)
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The math looks a bit different if one can attend an aviation program with in-state public school tuition while living with your parents. ERAU or UND on out of state tuition are financially painful and the 'general degree + FBO' path is definitely cheaper.
 
If you go the college aviation program route be sure to apply for any and all scholarships. UND has about $400,000 aviation specific scholarships per year and each year some of that money goes unclaimed because people are too lazy to apply. Use this to your advantage as it can REALLY help make things more affordable. Also, and this may not be the case at all schools, you can get instate tuition at UND if you have an address in ND (dorm counts) for 12 months and get an ND drivers license. Staying over the summer to complete flight courses and get instate tuition is a great option. With instate you'll save 10 grand a year after your first year. 30 grand total. I believe Western Michigan has a similar policy but I'm not 100% sure. Hope this helps!
 
wilkersk said:
Check out Sarah Rovner and Amy Bellesheim on FaceBook. Send them a friend request and tell them you're an aspiring pilot. Pretty level-headed ladies.
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Amy is a local up here in Everett, and I would have no problem taking instruction from her. She is top notch, serious about flying, nice, and took my daughters, during Aviation Days over to an airplane (C-172) and explained to my two younger daughters (8 and 10) about the control surfaces on the aircraft. She also does work with Challenge Air.
 
Lea Marie Medina said:
Hi, all. I'm new and happened to join a few days ago after pilots I knew didn't reply to my messages. I am in junior in high school and it's the time for me to start zoning in on a major I want to pursue. I fell in love with airplanes at an early age (thank the good ol' History Channel), and I said to myself at the age of 10 that I wanted to become a pilot. My father thought of it lightly, back then. He tried to convince me to be involved in a field that isn't so dominated by males (and I do see it changing; I'd love to show him wrong at some point :p ), but I still held fast to wanting to fly as a career because I didn't feel as if the work he set me out for would be fulfilling nor make me happy. Well, I am now 16 and I am at the controls of my own life-- much to his chagrin. He gave me one challenge: to talk to at least two female pilots and ask them about their lives and careers as pilots. I, personally, am interested in being a CFII at my local university with a four-year aviation course after graduation. My father still wants me to ask for a story from at least one person who flies for an airline. I would love it if a female CFII were to tell me about students and teaching methods... let's not forget the necessity of teaching the right things.

So please-- I know some of you are out there. Can you tell me about your pilot lifestyles, home/social lives, the paths to your careers, your experiences in flight school, any difficulties in finding work, relations with your counterparts, and any means of help you turned to? Me being able to attend this university is literally on the line. I will take my SAT in March 2017 so I can apply for the course early to ensure a seat in the class. I would also greatly appreciate it if we Skyped/ called over phone!

GRAMERCY!:oops:
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I've only known one female pilot, she was excellent and the males took her seriously according to that, nothing to do with gender. Not saying the issue isn't there, just I've never seen it, then again, only once have I seen a female pilot. One more thing, and I don't want to offend you "Well, I am now 16 and I am at the controls of my own life" that's rich. Quite honestly as somone hardly older than you (21) I can personally assure you that you are far from it, when you get a job and start flight training. you will realize what I mean.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am really glad that the internet was not a thing when I was 16 and looking for answers.

I think POA is a great place for pilots who have some experience to come to and add to their knowledge and hear differing points of view on various topics. Hopefully with a bit of pre-existing knowledge and experience, one can separate out the good advice from the ridiculous and also learn from the so-so advice. I know that I have. However, I do fear at times that the newbie, especially a youngster, will be worse off for posing their question or seeking advice here. I am not saying that good advice is not offered here but sometimes the diamond is buried in manure.
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And we wonder why GA is dying
Anymouse said:
I'm not certain she's concerned about the reduced hour ATP.

I am curious about the cost diff for the reduced ATP vs having to fly another 500 hours. Those aviation schools are downright expensive.

If she did get her CFII prior to entering college, she could be building up those hours while 1.) Making money, and 2.) Earning a degree in some major other than a rather restrictive Aviation Science. All while paying WAY less than the typical aviation university.
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This. For me, another 500 hours meant just 4-5 more months of instructing. I was debt free when I got out of school and even though Riddle and SUNY guys got to the airlines a few months ahead of me, they owed A LOT of money. I figured it would be better to instruct a few months longer than go to a regional, make peanuts and figure out how I'm going to pay back my $100K loan.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm not sure that guys are in a position to know whether there is discrimination against women in aviation.
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I disagree. One does not have to be in a class of people to see if that class is done wrong or not. These sort of things are usually pretty evident.

I can't speak for flight departments but on the maintenance side when it comes to hiring, it has been my anecdotal experience that an extremely high percentage of women applicants get hired. The percentage for men runs much lower. So in respect to hiring, the ladies seem to receive preferential treatment.

However once on the job, they frequently but not always get the less difficult and less critical job assignments. That could either be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the person as you have a lower chance for making a big mistake but also less chance to make your mark. So there is a form of discrimination going on in job assignments and that can also impact promotion potential.

This is all based on my experiences as a mechanic, lead mechanic, supervisor and manager who has worked with, led and hired women during my 30+ year aviation career.
 
GeorgeC said:
I suspect he means Annabelle. I did my checkride with her in 2011. She retired a couple of years ago.
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Then there were at least two female DPE's on the east coast in the '80's. Progressive! :D

Nauga,
the dinosaur
 
SkyDog58 said:
I disagree. One does not have to be in a class of people to see if that class is done wrong or not. These sort of things are usually pretty evident.

I can't speak for flight departments but on the maintenance side when it comes to hiring, it has been my anecdotal experience that an extremely high percentage of women applicants get hired. The percentage for men runs much lower. So in respect to hiring, the ladies seem to receive preferential treatment.

However once on the job, they frequently but not always get the less difficult and less critical job assignments. That could either be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the person as you have a lower chance for making a big mistake but also less chance to make your mark. So there is a form of discrimination going on in job assignments and that can also impact promotion potential.

This is all based on my experiences as a mechanic, lead mechanic, supervisor and manager who has worked with, led and hired women during my 30+ year aviation career.
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I'm reminded of the time that I was waiting for a portable toilet at an outdoor concert, and a couple of women commented on seeing liquid on top of toilet seats, and asked me if guys peed with the seat down. I didn't think they did, but I should have pointed out that I could only speak for myself, because how the heck would I know what other guys do when they're not being observed?
 
Jim Case said:
"Well, I am now 16 and I am at the controls of my own life" that's rich. Quite honestly as somone hardly older than you (21) I can personally assure you that you are far from it, when you get a job and start flight training. you will realize what I mean.
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? I was about her age when I realized I was at the controls of my own life. Twenty years later and that still holds true. Sure, other things jump in and throw wrenches in my plans sometimes, but how I respond to those things is solely on my own shoulders. I like her attitude.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I can't speak for flight departments but on the maintenance side when it comes to hiring, it has been my anecdotal experience that an extremely high percentage of women applicants get hired. The percentage for men runs much lower. So in respect to hiring, the ladies seem to receive preferential treatment.
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Preferential treatment, or they are actually more qualified and/or doing more to follow up? A guy I know is trying to hire a scientist position in his lab and said the female applicants are far outshining the male ones, mostly due to little things - like that none of the men have bothered following up with after interview thank you letters and they've shown up to their interviews late or not as organized as their female counterparts.

As for those suggesting sexism is some kind of made up thing by the media or "hollywood"... give me break. I don't need the media to tell me what I deal with at least weekly, sometimes daily. Just yesterday one of my superiors (male) put his arm around my shoulders, squeezed me into him and kissed me on the cheek. I wanted to throw up. Think he would have done that to a guy?

How's about last week when someone had a question about the mapping we are doing at our agency and, knowing that I'm the one who handles all of that and is the expert, instead of looking at me and directing his questions to me - he asked the man standing next to me who isn't even in the same department! When that guy redirected him my way, the guy got huffy, wouldn't look me in the eye and walked away.

Fact is, if you are a woman working in a male dominated industry like I am, you do need a thick skin and tons of confidence. Otherwise the crap you have to put up with sometimes will bring you down and shrink you as a person. It happens. It's not some media made-up phenomenon. I've been trying not to stir the pot on this throughout the course of this thread, but I realized the only reason I was doing so was because I didn't feel like arguing with a bunch of men. But I'm sick of these comments suggesting that sexism isn't still a reality. It is. Be glad you don't have to deal with it and show some empathy for those of us who do.

That said, I'm not a victim - because I choose not to be. I long ago stopped caring about trying to earn the respect of the men who showed me such a lack of it, and I've been far happier ever since!

Most men I work with professionally and fly with for fun are wonderful and respectful. Unfortunately it's the ones who aren't like that who make things really difficult and sometime really depressing. I may have a thick skin, but I'm not completely immune and it still gets to me sometimes.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm not sure that guys are in a position to know whether there is discrimination against women in aviation.
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That's fair. But if you assume that, then neither are women. If men aren't capable of telling that women are being treated differently, then women aren't capable of telling that men are being treated differently. You can't have it both ways.
 
Salty said:
That's fair. But if you assume that, then neither are women. If men aren't capable of telling that women are being treated differently, then women aren't capable of telling that men are being treated differently. You can't have it both ways.
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I think you are missing the point. When you are in a majority, it's hard to tell when the minority is being discriminated against. When you yourself are discriminated against, then it's fairly easy, assuming you are reasonably objective. So it's not a symmetrical situation as you seem to imply.
 
Salty said:
That's fair. But if you assume that, then neither are women. If men aren't capable of telling that women are being treated differently, then women aren't capable of telling that men are being treated differently. You can't have it both ways.
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What makes you think I want to have it both ways?
 
Salty said:
That's fair. But if you assume that, then neither are women. If men aren't capable of telling that women are being treated differently, then women aren't capable of telling that men are being treated differently. You can't have it both ways.
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Beware Salty.:fingerwag: Logical consistency isn't well received here. Trying to highlight weakness in someone's viewpoint is taken as a personal insult and the merits of your challenge will be discarded. Either way, I appreciate your insight.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm not sure that guys are in a position to know whether there is discrimination against women in aviation.
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That's a sexist statement, you should apologize.
 
Salty said:
That's fair. But if you assume that, then neither are women. If men aren't capable of telling that women are being treated differently, then women aren't capable of telling that men are being treated differently. You can't have it both ways.
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Where did anyone argue otherwise? Who was trying to have it both ways?
 
IMG_0531.PNG IMG_0530.JPG

I don't think women are in a place to know when men are being discriminate against in aviation.
 
Cooter said:
I don't think women are in a place to know when men are being discriminate against in aviation.
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yup....:D

a6256490852b01332937005056a9545d
 
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