Question about dismissed misdemeanor

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Flyer725

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Flyer725
Hello everyone.

My situation is that I am 25, currently hold a CPL (SEL) and recently been arrested for shoplifting(petty misdemeanor). This is my first and only offense and will likely be dismissed and sealed in the state in of NY which means I will NOT hold any criminal or misdemeanor CONVICTIONS as long as I do not do this again for 6 months. I understand there is no excuse or words to justify for this poor decision that I admit to. All I can say is that I pressured myself due to financial issues and have used this as a valuable learning experience that gave me a whole new outlook risk management.

My question is will this stop me for First Officer employment and is it really worth anymore to follow my dream to be an major airline pilot?

I understand that airlines look for clean records and I also intend to be honest about this incident on interviews.

I truly appreciate any help and advice. Please feel free to answer with reality and not hopefulness.

Thank you everyone.
 
I could say many things in response to this but I better not. Good luck
 
Any convictions? No.

Any arrest? Yes, but no charges filed.

Sounds like you might be given deferred adjudication, which if I understand right means be a good boy for the prescribed time and the records will be sealed.

I just don't see how this will keep you out of aviation, but understand there may be a few a holes out there that will use it against you. Which is good because you probably do not want to work for that person anyway.

Honesty is good, but if asked about it, give short, simple answers, do not go into lengthy details.

Good luck to ya..!!!
 
Zeldman said:
Any convictions? No.

Any arrest? Yes, but no charges filed.

Sounds like you might be given deferred adjudication, which if I understand right means be a good boy for the prescribed time and the records will be sealed.

I just don't see how this will keep you out of aviation, but understand there may be a few a holes out there that will use it against you. Which is good because you probably do not want to work for that person anyway.

Honesty is good, but if asked about it, give short, simple answers, do not go into lengthy details.

Good luck to ya..!!!
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Thanks and your are correct about deferred adjudication. Good luck with your endeavors.
 
Regionals will probably not be a problem. Majors may be a problem. There are guys with squeaky, clean records who can't even get a call. Just be honest and don't lie about it. They will find out and it won't end well.
 
Flyer725 said:
Thanks and your are correct about deferred adjudication. Good luck with your endeavors.
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His advice is probably wrong in at least one respect. If you want to know what the end result in 6 months for your specific disposition is under NY law, ask a NY lawyer, not SGOTI.
 
Don't overlook the implications WRT your medical. It should be a yawn if dismissed, but it still has to be reported.

Rich
 
Also you asked the same question in another forum. Were you actually arrested (booked) or were you issued a citation? Important difference.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Also you asked the same question in another forum. Were you actually arrested (booked) or were you issued a citation? Important difference.
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It was actual arrest and transport to booking. I spent a couple hours there to take finger prints..
 
FYI... You will have a booking record so trying to hide it for any future endeavor will surely end in an unfavorable result. A cite/release with no booking would be much easier to fib about. Not that I advocate that, but no prints are transmitted to the AFIS system. It's still considered an arrest, but no booking required.


All I can say is fight it aggressively, push for dismissal and expungement with a sealed record. Then, if asked again for a job, clearance or otherwise disclose it and emphasize it was dismissed and sealed. It takes a court order to unseal it and you better have a good reason to do so. It's a very protected file at that point on the ones of a juvenile record.
 
I believe that it's worse that you have to ask what to do. The answer is that you are open and up front and never give anyone a reason to question your integrity...like you just did by trying to finesse your explanation to us using legalese. Don't do that. What I heard is that you are guilty but using legal tricks to get it spiked and now you want to know how to hide it from future employers.

On your next medical, you will disclose this because there is a question "have you ever been arrested". An arrest without charges or with charges dropped can be a simple mistake by the officers - they thought you did something you didn't do/they thought you were someone else and it is no big deal. It says nothing about you and everything about them. An arrest that you do not report on your medical or that you try to hide not only sinks a professional career, but puts you on the FAA's doo-doo list. I can assure you that if your medical is pulled for not telling the truth, not even a charter operation will pick you up.
 
The bigger issue here is that a pilot had to resort to stealing(most likely food) because he is paid like a fast food worker. Pilots need to receive better pay. We should be outraged that he was forced into criminal behavior because he was lied to when he signed up for flight school. It is not his fault in the slightest bit. The school should have been charged with the crime since this poor struggling student was turned out ink this world to fight for scraps while being promised a lucrative job.

We should all take to twitter and express our outrage! Someone start a gofundme account right now!
 
Even Eaglescouts are stealing chicken nuggets these days......
 
Go run a full background check (FBI offers it I think) on yourself and see what comes up.

Seems obvious.
 
James331 said:
Go run a full background check (FBI offers it I think) on yourself and see what comes up.

Seems obvious.
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I can, but after speaking with aviation and criminal attorneys, it will show up regardless of being dismissed/sealed a cording to PRIA background checks. Thanks
 
bflynn said:
I believe that it's worse that you have to ask what to do. The answer is that you are open and up front and never give anyone a reason to question your integrity...like you just did by trying to finesse your explanation to us using legalese. Don't do that. What I heard is that you are guilty but using legal tricks to get it spiked and now you want to know how to hide it from future employers.

On your next medical, you will disclose this because there is a question "have you ever been arrested". An arrest without charges or with charges dropped can be a simple mistake by the officers - they thought you did something you didn't do/they thought you were someone else and it is no big deal. It says nothing about you and everything about them. An arrest that you do not report on your medical or that you try to hide not only sinks a professional career, but puts you on the FAA's doo-doo list. I can assure you that if your medical is pulled for not telling the truth, not even a charter operation will pick you up.
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Btw, I'm not trying to hide anything. This case is grounds for dismissal is what I was told going to happen for first time offenses. It will be settled out of court because it's considered a "minor" offense. But after my own digging I still know that FAA and airline checks can have access.
 
Bear in mind that mistaken arrests do happen, and that charges are often dropped for such. To the extent your medical isn't affected, it's easy enough to explain to a potential employer in an interview should it be brought up. It's not like you're going to put it in your resume.
 
Just tell 'em what you told 'em in the first paragraph of your original post. Concise and contrite. We all screw up occasionally, but hopefully we learn from it and become better people.
 
Flyer725 said:
I can, but after speaking with aviation and criminal attorneys, it will show up regardless of being dismissed/sealed a cording to PRIA background checks. Thanks
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Ok

But I'd run it anyways, you never know till you know, facts beat opinions and the only fact is going to be what's in black and white on the $20 background check.
 
Talk to a lawyer. You may be able to get your arrest records expunged.

Being dinged for an arrest but not a conviction really bothers me. It seems totally unfair. You're NOT GUILTY! for pete's sake. THE prosecution made a mistake and YOU are paying for it with a record. IT's not a record of a crime, it's an ARREST with no conviction. THAT is NOT GUILTY. That is the stance to take. Don't admit you did the crime if you were found NOT GUILTY or the charges were dropped. Almost everyone makes a mistake or two in their life. America is the land of second chances. Don't give up!
 
Was there a suspended imposition of sentence? Those records go away if you comply with the court requirements. If sentence was handed down it's a sentence. I don't know how you can deny that.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Talk to a lawyer. You may be able to get your arrest records expunged.

Being dinged for an arrest but not a conviction really bothers me. It seems totally unfair. You're NOT GUILTY! for pete's sake. THE prosecution made a mistake and YOU are paying for it with a record. IT's not a record of a crime, it's an ARREST with no conviction. THAT is NOT GUILTY. That is the stance to take. Don't admit you did the crime if you were found NOT GUILTY or the charges were dropped. Almost everyone makes a mistake or two in their life. America is the land of second chances. Don't give up!
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Welcome to the land of computer databases that never go away.
 
denverpilot said:
Welcome to the land of computer databases that never go away.
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Yep. Most of my pro bono work these days is with expungements. As I explain to my clients, "expunged" doesn't mean "can't be found." It still definitely has benefits, but don't expect information that was once out there to simply disappear.
 
Sorry. 25 is too old to make stupid mistakes. Don't know what you stole or why, nor do I care. There is no excuse at your age as you should know better. You will have to live with the consequences of your decision. I believe everyone deserves a second chance but stealing at your age speaks volumes of your thought process, values, and character. I know this is not want you want to hear but then again, people who work hard for a living are the ones who have to pay for those who are selfish enough to take from them.

Regarding my belief in 2nd chances. I stand by that but a considerable amount of time would have to pass in my opinion to prove it was a stupid mistake vs finally being caught. I hope it works out for you but you have nobody to blame but yourself if it does not.
 
mulligan said:
Sorry. 25 is too old to make stupid mistakes. Don't know what you stole or why, nor do I care. There is no excuse at your age as you should know better. You will have to live with the consequences of your decision. I believe everyone deserves a second chance but stealing at your age speaks volumes of your thought process, values, and character. I know this is not want you want to hear but then again, people who work hard for a living are the ones who have to pay for those who are selfish enough to take from them.

Regarding my belief in 2nd chances. I stand by that but a considerable amount of time would have to pass in my opinion to prove it was a stupid mistake vs finally being caught. I hope it works out for you but you have nobody to blame but yourself if it does not.
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Wonder why it's being dismissed?
If he was so poor he "needed" to steal others stuff, where did he get the money to make the legal issue go away?


Personally I wish thieves could just be dragged out into the street and beat, would help save tax dollars and probably be a better deterrent. Or maybe just a branding mark of their foreheads so others could identify them when before they enter their home or business.
 
James331 said:
Personally I wish thieves could just be dragged out into the street and beat, would help save tax dollars and probably be a better deterrent. Or maybe just a branding mark of their foreheads so others could identify them when before they enter their home or business.
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It'd be hard to round up all the politicians on branding day.
 
mulligan said:
Sorry. 25 is too old to make stupid mistakes. Don't know what you stole or why, nor do I care. There is no excuse at your age as you should know better. You will have to live with the consequences of your decision. I believe everyone deserves a second chance but stealing at your age speaks volumes of your thought process, values, and character. I know this is not want you want to hear but then again, people who work hard for a living are the ones who have to pay for those who are selfish enough to take from them.

Regarding my belief in 2nd chances. I stand by that but a considerable amount of time would have to pass in my opinion to prove it was a stupid mistake vs finally being caught. I hope it works out for you but you have nobody to blame but yourself if it does not.
Click to expand...

I made a stupid mistake once. I walked out of the store thinking about pretty much everything except for the task at hand, which was to complete my shopping. Complete as in, pay for it. There I was, standing in the parking lot, holding my shopping basket. How absent minded with that. Of course I went back inside and paid for everything.

But it was a stupid mistake. Nobody called me on it, but somebody could have. I could have easily been in the same boat as the OP. I think that we are a little bit light on the background and the facts to make that kind of judgement. I suspect you're probably right, but I don't know for sure and neither do you.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I made a stupid mistake once. I walked out of the store thinking about pretty much everything except for the task at hand, which was to complete my shopping. Complete as in, pay for it. There I was, standing in the parking lot, holding my shopping basket. How absent minded with that. Of course I went back inside and paid for everything.

But it was a stupid mistake. Nobody called me on it, but somebody could have. I could have easily been in the same boat as the OP. I think that we are a little bit light on the background and the facts to make that kind of judgement. I suspect you're probably right, but I don't know for sure and neither do you.
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Glad things worked out for you! It's best to walk away with this as a learning experience to make sure things like this do not happen again which can be more beneficial.
 
If you don't intend to steal, its questionable as to whether its really theft. Mistakes happen. Happens in banking quite a bit (money, sometimes LOTS of money) put in the wrong account. It gets recognized and fixed. No crime at all...

Oh, and if they accidently put it in yours, you have to give it back...
 
Hey, if you didn't "intend" to break the law, you get a pass....
 
Sac Arrow said:
I made a stupid mistake once. I walked out of the store thinking about pretty much everything except for the task at hand, which was to complete my shopping. Complete as in, pay for it. There I was, standing in the parking lot, holding my shopping basket. How absent minded with that. Of course I went back inside and paid for everything.

But it was a stupid mistake. Nobody called me on it, but somebody could have. I could have easily been in the same boat as the OP. I think that we are a little bit light on the background and the facts to make that kind of judgement. I suspect you're probably right, but I don't know for sure and neither do you.
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Sac - The OP actually admitted his own fault which I have great respect for, so yes, I do know. "I understand there is no excuse or words to justify for this poor decision that I admit to"

I will leave it at that. I made my point to the OP and don't need to beat him up again over it.
 
Flyer725 said:
Btw, I'm not trying to hide anything. This case is grounds for dismissal is what I was told going to happen for first time offenses. It will be settled out of court because it's considered a "minor" offense. But after my own digging I still know that FAA and airline checks can have access.
Click to expand...

Arrests get out into a federal database in less than a month.

A dismissal is a good thing.

But for the question is still on your next medical and you will have to answer yes because ypu were arrested. This dismissal means you will be able to say "I was arrested but charges were dropped".
 
Absent a drug/alcohol factor or an indication that this is a psychiatic problem manifesting itself in overt acts, this isn't much of a factor. In fact, a complete dismissal can be dealt with a NO on 18w.
 
bflynn said:
But for the question is still on your next medical and you will have to answer yes because ypu were arrested. This dismissal means you will be able to say "I was arrested but charges were dropped".
Click to expand...

Question: Why were the charges dropped?

Answer: Because the caught the right person.

Wrong Answer: Because I had a good lawyer.
 
Flyer725 said:
Hello everyone.

My situation is that I am 25, currently hold a CPL (SEL) and recently been arrested for shoplifting(petty misdemeanor). This is my first and only offense and will likely be dismissed and sealed in the state in of NY which means I will NOT hold any criminal or misdemeanor CONVICTIONS as long as I do not do this again for 6 months. I understand there is no excuse or words to justify for this poor decision that I admit to. All I can say is that I pressured myself due to financial issues and have used this as a valuable learning experience that gave me a whole new outlook risk management.

My question is will this stop me for First Officer employment and is it really worth anymore to follow my dream to be an major airline pilot?

I understand that airlines look for clean records and I also intend to be honest about this incident on interviews.

I truly appreciate any help and advice. Please feel free to answer with reality and not hopefulness.

Thank you everyone.
Click to expand...

Honesty is the best policy.
 
Has the wording on questions 18v/18w changed? I know it used to be that you had to report even an arrest of any kind with an explanation if it was dropped because you were innocent. But I just read this from AOPA that seems to indicate otherwise.

https://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=620

If it has changed then I am proobably wrong because I know the old wording.
 
18w hasn't changed. It only asks about non-traffic CONVICTIONS not arrests.
It is 18v which casts a wider net for drug/alcohol related driving issues (arrests, administrative actions, convictions).
 
bflynn said:
Has the wording on questions 18v/18w changed? I know it used to be that you had to report even an arrest of any kind with an explanation if it was dropped because you were innocent. But I just read this from AOPA that seems to indicate otherwise.

https://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=620

If it has changed then I am proobably wrong because I know the old wording.
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I have a copies of the form going back to the 1991 edition. 18w (the non-traffic criminal offenses) asks only for "convictions". Still does.

18v (the DUI one) has changed. The 1991 version of the form asked for DUI/DWI convictions (and reab and administrative actions resulting in loss of driving privileges). The current MedExpress form expands it and asks for arrests or convictions on DUI/DWI offenses (or which involved loss of driving privileges). I think the change came about when or after MedExpress started since I'm pretty sure the 1999 version of the form was the last paper one and it had the same language as the 1991 one.
 
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