Just wondering about something. I have read a lot of posts where Cirrus pilots are the punchline to some sort of joke. I’m just wondering why? can someone please let me in on the joke! Are they viewed as the BMW driver with the flipped up collar? Are they viewed as the redneck with the plane up on blocks in the front yard? Is it the chute making it a sissy plane? Cirrus is my plan for the future and I want to know what people may be laughing about. Now keep in mind I don’t care but interested minds want to know..
Question about Cirrus Pilots
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dtuuri
Final Approach
I dunno either, but this I DO know: They (Cirri) cruise as fast as my Twin Comanche did without the associated extra maintenance of another engine and retractable landing gear. But, they're a throw-away airplane at 12,000 hours so maybe the critics think anybody who'd buy such a thing is, um, NTB?
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think most new designs were throw away when they first came out until proven otherwise.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Could be. Like which ones?
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Pretty sure it's sop for new designs, modified as real world results are gathered. As far as which specific ones? I don't know, if you are really interested, google it. I found this on the Cirrus.
Why Cirrus - Useful Life & Inspections
Cervieres
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How many piston singles make it to 12,000 hours and how many people are comfortable flying an airframe with that kind of time on it? Honestly asking.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I had cued up a similar sentiment for Paul but when I went looking for a smiley and came back my reply was gone in the ether. So I agree with you that it probably isn't a practical thing to worry much about. I'm out of guesses as to why Cirrus pilots have a reputation. You'll all have to carry on without me.
Cervieres
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They are brilliant aircraft and if you have the means to attain one, you absolutely should. The market share that Cirrus has acquired speaks for itself. Cirrus pilots are no better or no worse than pilots of any other aircraft. The issue is that when you show up to a party of 50 year old antiques with your shiny new million dollar rig, you are going to be the brunt of some jokes.
If you have more money than skill, which of the available GA aircraft are you most likely to purchase? The answer doesn’t reflect on the aircraft, or all of its pilots, but it does lead to the punchline.
tspear
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Timothy
Short answer is jealousy.
Cirrus has the new gadgets and also the chute. The chute which often has an emotional appeal to the SWMBO was therefore considered not manly. As in real pilots will fly a broken airplane down to their death while the wimp pulls the chute.
This same basic jealousy was behind the name, fork tailed doctor killer applied to the Bonanza. There was a similar moniker for Mooney before the Bo....
Tim
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Cirrus has the new gadgets and also the chute. The chute which often has an emotional appeal to the SWMBO was therefore considered not manly. As in real pilots will fly a broken airplane down to their death while the wimp pulls the chute.
This same basic jealousy was behind the name, fork tailed doctor killer applied to the Bonanza. There was a similar moniker for Mooney before the Bo....
Tim
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luvflyin
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It is not the if you mow your lawn and find a cirrus you may be a redneck thing
Groundpounder
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Emerson Bigguns
I love my F33A, but if I had the money, I would replace it with an SR22. There are some douche canoes that fly them, but there are plenty of other airplanes being flown by douche canoes that don't get the same abuse.
I'm curious if the SR's that are being sold as trainers also have the 12,000 hour limit, because they would hit that number quicker than you'd think.
I'm curious if the SR's that are being sold as trainers also have the 12,000 hour limit, because they would hit that number quicker than you'd think.
Flocker
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Would love to hear some of the jokes...
In the early days, Cirrus had a surprisingly bad safety record and some training issues. It was also brand new and high tech from the get go. Even with steam gauges it had dual GPS, an MFD, and a working autopilot, which was intended to be used regularly, and which so much if the elderly light GA fleet didn't have. Put those all together and you have the basis for the stereotype Cirrus pilot who is a child of the magenta and doesn't actually know how to fly.
Cirrus began turning the training issue around in about 2010/2011 and the safety record has improved markedly. Some people think it's overkill, but Cirrus training has become highly standardized, with both CSIP and most non-CSIP instructors who teach in them substantially following the Cirrus FOM.
The Cirrus pilots I have known personally have been solid (a certain well-publicized recent accident notwithstanding) and take proficiency seriously. But like all stereotypes, the rep dies hard.
Cirrus began turning the training issue around in about 2010/2011 and the safety record has improved markedly. Some people think it's overkill, but Cirrus training has become highly standardized, with both CSIP and most non-CSIP instructors who teach in them substantially following the Cirrus FOM.
The Cirrus pilots I have known personally have been solid (a certain well-publicized recent accident notwithstanding) and take proficiency seriously. But like all stereotypes, the rep dies hard.
OneCharlieTango
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There’s the envy factor, of course. Most pilots buying piston singles buy what they can afford. For most, that’s way less than $850,000 or whatever they’re up to now. The BMW dude with a popped collar is an apt analogy.
When Cirrus first came out, their safety record wasn’t very good at all. This led to hoots from the pilot gallery. After all, the chute costs $15,000 to repack every 10 years and it weighs 75# on every single flight. It needs to offer a lot in return for that kind of cost. Since COPA developed their program and the Cirrus pilot culture oriented toward training, things have improved a lot — just like they do when any group gets serious about training.
Then there’s the online persona of Cirrus fans. Some guy’s engine skips a beat while he’s flying over an empty theme park parking lot. He pulls the red handle, totals the airplane, and walks away. Cirrus fans would call that “CAPS Save #412” and refuse to discuss whether he would’ve been better off gliding to land there at Six Flags.
There’s more, but that’s the basic idea.
When Cirrus first came out, their safety record wasn’t very good at all. This led to hoots from the pilot gallery. After all, the chute costs $15,000 to repack every 10 years and it weighs 75# on every single flight. It needs to offer a lot in return for that kind of cost. Since COPA developed their program and the Cirrus pilot culture oriented toward training, things have improved a lot — just like they do when any group gets serious about training.
Then there’s the online persona of Cirrus fans. Some guy’s engine skips a beat while he’s flying over an empty theme park parking lot. He pulls the red handle, totals the airplane, and walks away. Cirrus fans would call that “CAPS Save #412” and refuse to discuss whether he would’ve been better off gliding to land there at Six Flags.
There’s more, but that’s the basic idea.
It's nothing to do with the airplane, really. It's the fact that they are often purchased by people who are very successful in life and are used to getting their way, but have little to no aviation experience. This leads to broken airplanes and dead people. It also leads to 10 mile straight in "finals" at the pancake breakfast. For a previous generation it was Bonanzas.
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Snorting his way across the USA
The Bonanza syndrome? That's largely died off. So to speak.
tspear
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Actually, last I checked the majority of Cirrus accidents were with pilots over 1000 hours. Most of the new to aviation but bought a Cirrus do not crash, largely because if the brainwashing, oops I mean training and factory emphasis on training and recurrent training.
Tim
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tspear
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Only because the pilots have been aging out like the planes.
Tim (I could not resist)
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Deelee
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Okayokay, I got one... stop me if you heard it...
Why did the Cirrus cross the road? wait for it.... wait for it........ Cirri don't cross roads! They just follow the magenta line on their perspective plus around the road while the pilot sits in the back sipping rose'.
okayokayokayokay... guys... here's one... stop me if you heard this one....
A Cirrus, a 172 and a Mooney walk into a bar... Bartender says, "Whaddaya have?" 172 says, "Just some water please. I can't afford a drink because for some reason I cost $180,000 even though I have a clapped out engine and avionics that belong in a museum. Seriously, why do people other than flight schools buy me? I'm slow and boring and fly like a Yugo."... Mooney says, "Nothing thanks. I got here so fast I already drank my limit like twenty minutes ago. Cya!" Cirrus looks at the bartender and says, "Sorry, hang on.... You gotta wait for me to float down..... I popped the chute." Oh!!! Get it? Get it??
okayokay... one more.. one more.... here you go, stop me if you heard this.. have you heard this one??....
How many Cirri does it take to screw in a lightbulb? ........... wait for it.. wait for it..... None. The Cirrus pilot can afford to pay someone else to change it!! OH!!!
Hey, that's all for my set guys! Thanks so much you have been a wonderful audience! Good night!
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Bro do you even lift
Kenny Phillips
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Even if you have much skill and much money, actually. But if you have brains, skill, and money, get a DA62.
Well thanks for all the input. I will be buying the SR22 when PPL is finished. My plan is to get my instrument rating in the plane I’m going to fly. Seems like it’s a very popular plane, I don’t read about a lot of major maintenance issues. The Performance and range fit my mission. And it looks pretty damn good too....
Tarheelpilot
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Nothing special about the airplane. It’s the new bonanza. Doctors beware.
luvflyin
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Controller asks a King Air “can you make a short approach and get it down from there.” Pilot says “affirmative, I can get it down like a Bonanza full of doctors for you.” This one ain’t a joke. It happened.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I was flying to 6Y9, and heard a Cirrus pilot declare an emergency and requested vectors because his nav system went on the fritz when he was less than 15 minutes from his destination. It was CAVU. I had an airline Captain flying right seat with me and we both looked at each other in shock "did he really declare an emergency on a clear and a million day when he can practically see his destination from where he's at?" This is why Cirrus pilots are a joke. That goes for anyone who over relies on technology, it could have been someone in an Archer, but it wasn't, and this guy did nothing to dispel the stereotype.
In my experience, the "joke" was started by some of the original Cirrus owners as the new aircraft started arriving at different airports. For example, back then on one of my regular visits to a certain airport there was a "crowd" of Saturday morning regulars around 2 aircraft: a new Cirrus and new Cessna. The Cirrus guy was "justifying" why his cost more than the Cessna. It was fun entertainment till I got dragged into the conversation as the only mechanic there. Not to dig myself a hole, I simply stated I couldn't understand the price point of the Cirrus given a majority of the initial R&D was subsidized by NASA and that at best it should cost no more than the Cessna. That lit them off on a new tangent and I was able to sneak away. But I wouldn't fret over it if I were you. Know plenty of upstanding citizens that fly a Cirrus.
Any new Part 23 aircraft requires a "structural durability" assessment. Each OEM must determine the potential of catastrophic failure during the aircraft's operational life and how that potential/life will be monitored/maintained in the field via inspections or a hard life limit. Cirrus elected to use the 12,000hr hard limit with no additional inspections regardless of how it is operated. Some OEMs went with a higher hard limit but required "extensive" repetitive inspections through that limit with some based on type of operation. And yes that limit can be modified over time via an FAA process. Cirrus did it on both the 20 & 22.
I do see the perception that Cirrus has all the gizmos and gadgets and if they fail the the pilot is lost on a clear day. If that is the case then it is clearly the individuals fault. I remember when electronic air brake systems were introduced on locomotives in the 90’s. Old engineers would say “I don’t need need no computer runnin my train”. You still needed the skill, training, and experience to operate a locomotive but the computer took a lot of the mental work away allowing the engineer more time to take care of business.
Yep. Gotta be able to fly the plane.
I've heard worse. Not over reliance, more "not ready for prime time". Pilots trying to pick up an IFR clearance in the air and couldn't use the phonetic alphabet. One time a route was repeated so many times I told my wife, "I know where he's going and he still doesn't have his route down."
Or when a pilot asked multiple times to go lower even after ATC told him they couldn't let him descend below the MSA.
Those people had no business flying in IMC. All of them were in metal planes.
I've flown Cessna, Piper, Mooney, Beech, Diamond and Cirrus planes; singles and twins. We like the SR22, but they are all have their pros and cons.
Wayne
Clip4
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You can’t buy experience and there are a lot of SR22 pilots without proper ADM skills and aeronautical knowledge despite completion of the transition course. The weight, speed, and HP of the SR22 magnify the pilot deficiency.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Do everything in minutes for planning purposes rather than miles and speed isn't an issue. Don't do it 5 miles from the airport do it 5 minutes from and then it doesn't matter if you are in a Cub or a Cirrus. The time available until landing is always the same.
Cervieres
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Antione
Like most of the Cirrus bashing, that's not grounded in fact either. Minus the BRS, a Cirrus doesn't really come equipped with any features that aren't standard or available on other current production aircraft, maybe with the exception of the FLIR camera and yaw damper. If you are purchasing a new piston single or twin, a G1000nXi suite with a GFC700, TAWS-B, ESP, TAS, etc is what you get. Certainly more "gizmos" than a '69 V35 Bonanza, but not that different than other new production aircraft in a similar price range.
Disclaimer: I don't own a Cirrus, but if they made one with 6 seats I would.
luvflyin
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https://cirrusaircraft.com/aircraft/vision-jet/ We’ll be expecting pics when you take delivery
Cervieres
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I need a salary increase and some really good stock market returns. If those two things come together, I'll post some pics...taking delivery of a used TBM.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Speed increases learning time too, instructors tend to be more on edge as bad things happen faster. I came back from rusty pilot in 172s, I'm glad I did. Transitioning to the 20, then 22 was a piece of cake once I had the avionics figured out.