Punk Rocker files suit over plane crash.

He can't make a living at the crap produced so he's going after those who actually contribute to the economy. Nice move!
 
I have no problem pointing out when the media is misinformed about aviation... so it'd be unfair not to in this case, so..

KennyFlys.... Travis Barker is a very talented and extremely successful drummer who's worked on many projects with many people. I'm not saying the he does or doesn't have a good case in this lawsuit, but you've made a very misinformed statement.
 
"very talented" is certainly debatable. Succsessful is not. That dude is LOADED!
 
ntbjounin said:
"very talented" is certainly debatable. Succsessful is not. That dude is LOADED!
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Sure, 'talented' is an opinion, but it's the opinion of many, many people. He's in the 100 greatest rock drummers of all time according to many sources, including Rolling Stone.

Either way, like you said, the dude is loaded. He's got a clothing line, had a TV show, is brought in to work on projects for multitudes of artists in multiple genres.

I love aviation, obviously, that's why I'm here... but that doesn't mean you immediately and blindly try to discredit anyone that may have something against anyone involved in aviation.
 
Granted, he may be a great drummer, the part that bothered me is his attack on the two professional pilots who made their best decision in the very brief time allotted to them. They paid the ultimate price for that decision, and now that very talented drummer wants to cash in on their deaths. I am quite sure that $25,000.00 is a typo. That amount would not come close to his stay in the hospital. It's probably more like $25,000,000.00.

John
 
Accidents do happen. I think "Act of God" is the legal term. However, none of the information is really official at this point, we'll see what the NSTB findings are. Maybe there's more to the story than what the public knows at this time.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Is that a typo? He is seeking $25,000 in damages??
I would pay it!
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No, it's "more than $25,000 in damages."

I believe there is a damage threshold that sets which level of court you can file in. For instance, the county court might be for cases with damages $25,000 or less, while the circuit court does't have a limit.

If this is the case, you'd file in the circuit court claiming only that the damages exceed the threshold.

Ron "Not a lawyer, though I've been sued a couple of times" Wanttaja
 
Yeah, if I remember correctly, Federal Court is $50,000.
 
KennyFlys said:
He can't make a living at the crap produced so he's going after those who actually contribute to the economy. Nice move!
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I don't necessarily like all of the music that he plays, but Barker is one of the better drummers alive. Have you seen the crap this guy can do? :yesnod: It's nuts. He's talented.

I think the whole suing thing is a little weak sauce. Take your losses as they are. There's no reason to take others down with you.
 
Keep in mind that his lawsuit may be driven not by his personal desires, but by his "corporate" entity to recoup losses like missed performances, insurance payouts, etc. His corporate entity may have a duty to sue, regardless of what he personally wants.
 
Hey now, Blink 182 is lame as hell, but Travis Barker is a good drummer. I think Ken's trying to ruffle feathers, no way anyone can be THAT angry with Blink unless they stole your woman back in the day because they were SOOOOO popular.

I don't know the details of the lawsuit, and certainly won't trust the media to get it right. I'm guessing there's more to it than this. Also - that was a jacked up incident, running off the end of the runway....I would not be surprised if the pilot messed up. In which case, the organization the pilot works for should be responsible.
 
Put yourself or a loved one in his position, what do you think of his legal action now? How would you guide a loved one in such a case?

I don't have a clue who he is or what his music even sounds like. If there was a problem with the aircraft or poor decision making on the crew he is due recovery for injuries, loss of income and all the other legal mumbo jumbo crap.

If you haven't been on the recovery end or the years of physical therapy and re-educating yourself, basically starting over then don't throw stones. Just because we are pilots one can not look at an accident as an invasion of what we do or how we do it or that we are always perfect. People make mistakes, accidents happen, people suffer injuries.
 
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GMascelli said:
I don't have a clue who he is or what his music even sounds like. If there was a problem with the aircraft or poor decision making on the crew he is due recovery for injuries, loss of income and all the other legal mumbo jumbo crap.
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Ok then:

Amazing snare solo.

Live Solo:

I'm not posting Blink videos, because they are unbelievably gay.
 
Yeah, the guy has talent... but, he lost all credibility as soon as I saw his pants hanging down below his boxers. I guess he doesn't know the prison origin of that "style."
 
KennyFlys said:
Yeah, the guy has talent... but, he lost all credibility as soon as I saw his pants hanging down below his boxers. I guess he doesn't know the prison origin of that "style."
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Well, I seriously doubt it has the same meaning now, since most everyone did that when I was in high school (I was not one, unless I forgot my belt).
 
bqmassey said:
Accidents do happen. I think "Act of God" is the legal term. However, none of the information is really official at this point, we'll see what the NSTB findings are. Maybe there's more to the story than what the public knows at this time.
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No they do not, at least not according to our litigious society. Most people now want a RISK FREE life were nothing bad ever happens.
 
KennyFlys said:
Yeah, the guy has talent... but, he lost all credibility as soon as I saw his pants hanging down below his boxers. I guess he doesn't know the prison origin of that "style."
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you mean having tattoos (I believe called "tats" in the hip vernacular) over about 90% of his body (his face was spared) wasn't enough to bring you to that conclusion alone?
 
woodstock said:
you mean having tattoos (I believe called "tats" in the hip vernacular) over about 90% of his body (his face was spared) wasn't enough to bring you to that conclusion alone?
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Oh no... "body art" is perfectly acceptable. Not!

I've seen girls in their twenties with so many tattoos, I'd hate to see them twenty years later as things change. Not a chance I'd date someone with all that. Yeah, between the "tats" and hip hugger pants advertising his availability, he'd fit right in at any prison by all accounts.
 
John Baker said:
Granted, he may be a great drummer, the part that bothered me is his attack on the two professional pilots who made their best decision in the very brief time allotted to them. They paid the ultimate price for that decision, and now that very talented drummer wants to cash in on their deaths. I am quite sure that $25,000.00 is a typo. That amount would not come close to his stay in the hospital. It's probably more like $25,000,000.00.

John
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Well, did they make the wrong decision? Did they abort above V1? If so, it's a mistake.
 
What a bunch of crumudgeons! Oh, I don't like his music! Oh, I don't like his tattoos! Oh, I don't like how he dresses! Hello idiot yutzes, that's what your parents said about YOU! Unless you were as clueless when you were younger as some of the posters are now in this here thread.
 
KennyFlys said:
Yeah, the guy has talent... but, he lost all credibility as soon as I saw his pants hanging down below his boxers. I guess he doesn't know the prison origin of that "style."
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Ok, the guy has no credibility, but the facts are he was on the plane, and it crashed and he was not PIC. They said the pieces of tire were found 2800' down the runway, to me that says there was a good chance they were above V1 and should have continued. If that was the case, he doesn't need a shred of credibility, the facts stand on their own merit. One of the things you have to accept when you hold yourself out for air transport is strict liability, and Respondeat Superior takes that liability from the cockpit to the CEO and through everyone in between.
 
Henning said:
Ok, the guy has no credibility, but the facts are he was on the plane, and it crashed and he was not PIC. They said the pieces of tire were found 2800' down the runway, to me that says there was a good chance they were above V1 and should have continued. If that was the case, he doesn't need a shred of credibility, the facts stand on their own merit. One of the things you have to accept when you hold yourself out for air transport is strict liability, and Respondeat Superior takes that liability from the cockpit to the CEO and through everyone in between.
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Be real. If you put that guy on a witness stand in a civil trial, unless he gets a jury of early twenty-somethings, some of whom openly sport tattoos and piercings, he's not going to be taken seriously.

Sorry, but that appearance does nothing to speak of one's self-worth.
 
steingar said:
What a bunch of crumudgeons! Oh, I don't like his music! Oh, I don't like his tattoos! Oh, I don't like how he dresses! Hello idiot yutzes, that's what your parents said about YOU! Unless you were as clueless when you were younger as some of the posters are now in this here thread.
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As a teenager, I had long hair down to my collar. That's it. No tattoos. No piercings. Even those guys who had hair down to their middle back sure looked a hell of a lot more respectable than this guy.

That's a far cry from having your neck wrapped in tattoos and metal attached to your body. I won't get into the rest of his appearance while half nude on stage.

I'd be offended by being identified with "idiot yutzes" but I have no clue what that is. So, I'll just consider the source and go on about my surprise that some people can do this to their body. Oh... And, I'm hardly a "curmudgeon" but I can spell it. :P
 
KennyFlys said:
Be real. If you put that guy on a witness stand in a civil trial, unless he gets a jury of early twenty-somethings, some of whom openly sport tattoos and piercings, he's not going to be taken seriously.

Sorry, but that appearance does nothing to speak of one's self-worth.
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It's not about appearances of anything but a ledger sheet. With strict liability not only are compensatory damages awardable, but so are punatives. No need to show Gross Negligence for anything, strict liability assumes it. Any f-up in the three industries that carry Strict Liability; Air Carrier, Dangerous Animals and Explosives Handling carry with them the standard of Extraordinary Care, and that carries all the way to the top.

No insurance company in their right mind will let this go to a jury, they are far too unpredictable, because they can issue an award in excess of that asked for, and often do. That's why very few cases that involve punis make it to court, they are typically settled in negotiations.
 
I'm in the who-the-heck-cares-what-he-looks-like camp. If he's entitled to something he should get if, if not, he shouldn't. The investigation isn't even finished on this accident.

Seems like there are always members of the older generation who disapprove of the clothing/culture/music/etc of the younger generation, and the younger generation picks clothing/culture/music/etc specifically to annoy the older generation. That's the way of the world. :yawn:
 
Everskyward said:
I'm in the who-the-heck-cares-what-he-looks-like camp. If he's entitled to something he should get if, if not, he shouldn't. The investigation isn't even finished on this accident.

Seems like there are always members of the older generation who disapprove of the clothing/culture/music/etc of the younger generation, and the younger generation picks clothing/culture/music/etc specifically to annoy the older generation. That's the way of the world. :yawn:
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I'm not at all saying he doesn't deserve to have his complaint heard in court. But, I am speaking to the reality of how it will appear... or rather, how he will appear to the jury.
 
Henning said:
Well, did they make the wrong decision? Did they abort above V1? If so, it's a mistake.
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Would they have been at V1 2,800' down the runway when heavy?
 
Henning said:
Well, did they make the wrong decision? Did they abort above V1? If so, it's a mistake.
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Not necessarily. If the pilot feels the aircraft can't fly, such as structural failure, then an abort above V1 is not a mistake. But any abort above V1 is difficult.

Since I don't have the facts from this accident I'll reserve any judgment on the crews actions.
 
wabower said:
Would they have been at V1 2,800' down the runway when heavy?
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That's the question that needs to be resolved isn't it? Did they initiate the abort above or below V1? If above, then the suit has merit, if below it doesn't. There are too many factors involved to make that call here, plus,the factor of the blown tire, where did it come from, was it conforming, or was it a "black market" tire.... What was the actual training record of the pilots and did it conform to the Op Specs...

At 2800' down the runway, is there a configuration that that Lear could have been above V1? I'm not a Lear expert, but I'd wager yes, it could have been, that doesn't say I think it was. I'll wait till the NTSB comes out with their findings, they are pretty damned good at their jobs. I've worked alongside of them at some wrecks, and I was impressed by the knowledge and experience I witnessed.
 
KennyFlys said:
I'm not at all saying he doesn't deserve to have his complaint heard in court.
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Oh?

KennyFlys said:
He can't make a living at the crap produced so he's going after those who actually contribute to the economy. Nice move!
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Was I mistaken in interpreting this as an opinion that he doesn't deserve the opportunity to pursue the accident in court?
 
bqmassey said:
Oh?



Was I mistaken in interpreting this as an opinion that he doesn't deserve the opportunity to pursue the accident in court?
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Not at all. Everyone has a right to be heard. I just have issues with someone who first displays themselves as this person does. I could never take them seriously. Secondly, there is still no clear explanation of what happen in that cockpit and of the decisions made.
 
KennyFlys said:
Be real. If you put that guy on a witness stand in a civil trial, unless he gets a jury of early twenty-somethings, some of whom openly sport tattoos and piercings, he's not going to be taken seriously.

Sorry, but that appearance does nothing to speak of one's self-worth.
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24bf61cc-cbab-4bf5-9157-64b05ea234b0_mn.jpg


New info, they aborted at 156. BTW, the pictures a jury would be most impressed by are the 40x60 color glossies of the burns that will adorn the court room. I don't care what the guy looked like before or what he did. If they aborted beyond V1, they violated their Duty of Care. I've had my share of burns, and from the looks of that wreckage, they got some pretty damned serious ones. This is the kind of stuff that makes me hate riding in the back.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=6286647
 
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SkyHog said:
Amazing snare solo.
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OK, dude's good - But I personally know at least a dozen guys who could make him look terrible. No way he's "top 100" of all drummers. You could easily find 100 to make him look terrible at PASIC every year.

Here's some of the ones I know:

Tajuan "Butter" Hawkins (sorry the vid quality sucks, it's even better when you can see his face):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kSHnkWJhSQ

Joe Hobbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW2d9l0OLwM

Pat Fitz-Gibbon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VlGkBejztY
 
flyingcheesehead said:
OK, dude's good - But I personally know at least a dozen guys who could make him look terrible. No way he's "top 100" of all drummers. You could easily find 100 to make him look terrible at PASIC every year.
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There is one marked difference between the videos you posted and Nicks, Trevor was recording a fill on a track that had to go with other music, it wasn't really a "solo" so to speak, it was a snare part in a score. The ones you posted were playing snare solos for the purpose of a snare solo. They were all quite good, I liked that first one best, but comparing them is comparing apples and oranges.

Besides, it's irrelevant to this thread. Trevor and the other dude were badly burned I suspect. The kind of burns you can get from the fire damage I saw are potentialy the kind of burns where he may never be able to play drums properly again, and he probably has $25,000,000 in lifetime earnings left in him.
 
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Yea, his specialty isn't marching-band style snare. I could find easily find 100 better bassists and 100 better guitar players than him, because that's not his specialty either.

When it comes to rock music on a trap set, the guy is sick.
 
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