Proud and sad to be an American today!
- Thread starter Mattl
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steingar
Taxi to Parking
We need:
We need:
I always wondered:
Why did Enterprise have blinking lights? Like someone was going to avoid a collision that way?
AirDC
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bob Noel
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With all due respect, we should be looking for a ship with better reliability. The Enterprise was always breaking down.
Piloto
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Piloto
Unlike Star Trek where there are class M planets everywhere in the Galaxy the reality is completely different. First the distances involved even for Mars are too great for safe manned missions. The rewards or benefits of manned exploration is less than those of robotic missions. A robotic mission is much less expensive and less risky since there is no need for a return trip neither the loss of human life. A robot on Mars can stay for years doing exploration while an astronaut is limited to the amount of food and pysicological/physiological needs. And that is assuming he does not get sick.
Except for Earth there is no other place in our solar system where a human can stand without a pressure suit. And only a few that can stand with an astronaut suit. Not even the Moon which is at the same distance from the Sun as Earth can sustain any kind of life. Even our own planet was only habitable on the last 100 million years out of 4,000 million years old.
The closest solar system is only a mere 4 light years away when compared to 50,000 light years to the center of our galaxy or 4 million light years to the closest galaxy. And even if you had a starship where would you go?
And if we are looking for alien intelligent life you are better of looking south of the border than up in the sky.
José
Except for Earth there is no other place in our solar system where a human can stand without a pressure suit. And only a few that can stand with an astronaut suit. Not even the Moon which is at the same distance from the Sun as Earth can sustain any kind of life. Even our own planet was only habitable on the last 100 million years out of 4,000 million years old.
The closest solar system is only a mere 4 light years away when compared to 50,000 light years to the center of our galaxy or 4 million light years to the closest galaxy. And even if you had a starship where would you go?
And if we are looking for alien intelligent life you are better of looking south of the border than up in the sky.
José
fgcason
En-Route
In ancient Africa, the monkeys said that about the next tree over. Sitting safely in that tree wouldn't have got us anywhere useful. Today we are facing the same thing by sitting in front of the tv and not actually getting out and doing anything new just because it's considered risky.
Your ruler is seriously broken.
Since when did low earth orbit get redefined as infinity?
Has it occurred to anyone that after all these years, all we've managed to do at the end of the day is rent 40 year old spacecraft from the Russians and hope that someday we can eventually get a glorified Apollo operational enough to stick it on top of a modified SRB booster and limp it into low Earth orbit...hopefully without blowing it up.
Low Earth orbit. Eh. And to think that Apollo was planning a Venus flyby in 1973.
Not proud. Very ashamed.
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Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm with you, Frank.
That's not a victory lap Discovery is taking. It's a funeral procession.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Agree with most of the post but the moon, that orbits the earth will average the same distance from the sun as the earth...
Jim Logajan
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The same expenditure of energy will take a given piece of mass to moon and all the planets. They are "equidistant" with regard to energy requirements.
Low earth orbit is more than half way to the rest of the solar system - again on the launch energy requirements scale.
Low earth orbit is more than half way to the rest of the solar system - again on the launch energy requirements scale.
HerrGruyere
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The Discovery and its transport flew right over my building today. It is massive.
FlySince9
En-Route
Only when it took phaser or photon torpedo fire...
alfadog
Final Approach
And seat belts. Don't forget the seat belts!
Neal Howard
Cleared for Takeoff
...and about the only thing that NASA is routinely getting up higher than the stratosphere these days is our blood pressure whenever we read about them in the news.
Although, the new Mars rover is definitely something to get exited about. Let's all hope for a successful landing later thus summer.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html
Apache123
Line Up and Wait
I figured a combination of tradition and local-working-crew to know whether certain items (warp-core, containment fields, etc.) were in effect.
As far as tradition goes, if you look at the far aft of the ship the "poop deck" is modeled after the old ships' raised captain's quarters -- functionally it servers no purpose for design other than "maintaining naval tradition" which persevered throughout much of the show.
As we move through the tradition into efficiency and function things change. Compare modern carriers to their original counterparts in design. NCC-1701D was layed out quite a bit differently than NCC-1701 for practical/functional reasons.
I'm a big nerd.
rottydaddy
En-Route
It's both, if you ask me. The Orbiters were almost too ambitious in scope to begin with, and I'm kind of surprised they kept flying them as long as they did. Overall, a very successful program.
The mothballing of the Orbiters wouldn't bother me much if the US had a replacement for getting people and gear to and from low orbit- even just workhorse haulers like Soyuz and Progress. But at least they are willing to share them... for now.
What's even more disappointing, given the momentum we had in the 70s, is to not see a permanent Moon base yet . IMHO, manned Mars missions shouldn't even be considered until there have been people living and working and building stuff on the Moon for a while. It would even make more sense to build and launch any manned Mars spacecraft from there.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
When did you ever know the FAA, or any branch of government, to remove a requirement?
rottydaddy
En-Route
A good question.
But since most of the time, being in interstellar space, those Federation starships would be in, at best, dim starlight (not brilliant sunlight like in the show, LOL), some running lights might be a good idea, for close-maneuvering situations.
There was a lot of suspension of disbelief with that show... especially as regards relativity. I'm not so sure that you could travel even a few relativistic days at "warp" speeds and not return home to find you are ancient history.
But nobody will know for sure, I guess, until they either travel faster than light, or circumvent "traveling" altogether.
azure
Final Approach
Technically, a human on Titan would not require a pressure suit -- but we'd certainly need protection from the intense cold, not to mention a supply of breathable air.
Depends on your definition of "habitable". There have been roughly modern levels of oxygen in Earth's atmosphere (with significant fluctuations) since the start of the Cambrian over 500 million years ago. You could time travel back to almost any time during the last half billion years and survive for a while, provided you didn't become food for some large predator or succumb to an infection you have no resistance to.
Actually the closest known planetary systems as of today are about 15 light years away (Gliese 674 and Gliese 876). Epsilon Eridani (10 ly) might have a planet, though I don't think that discovery has been confirmed. We don't know (yet) whether Proxima or either Alpha Centauri A or B have planets.
Piloto
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Piloto
It's both, if you ask me. The Orbiters were almost too ambitious in scope to begin with, and I'm kind of surprised they kept flying them as long as they did. Overall, a very successful program.
The mothballing of the Orbiters wouldn't bother me much if the US had a replacement for getting people and gear to and from low orbit- even just workhorse haulers like Soyuz and Progress. But at least they are willing to share them... for now.
What's even more disappointing, given the momentum we had in the 70s, is to not see a permanent Moon base yet . IMHO, manned Mars missions shouldn't even be considered until there have been people living and working and building stuff on the Moon for a while. It would even make more sense to build and launch any manned Mars spacecraft from there.
A permanent Moon base? We don't even have a deep ocean base. I remember going to Epcot when it first opened back in the early 80s were they presented underwater habitats of the future with families living in them. Now, how would a manned moon based benefit Americans. It will definitely increase the national debt and take away part of the social security budget.
Regarding space we have to be more realistic than dreamers. Space is a very large, hostile and expensive environment for human travel. We have acquired more knowledge about space and planets with orbiting telescopes (Hubble), sensors and robotic missions to planets than with the Space Station ISS. Every time I hear about a mission to the ISS is for repairing something, either the solar cells or the toilets. What big scientific breakthrough have you heard coming from the ISS. For the billions that it cost to maintain I would expect something like how to convert sea water into AVGAS.
José
RobertSubnet
Pre-takeoff checklist
Well said Frank!
Have such long engine mounts? Wouldn't the torque of those bad boys going up to warp speed have caused the engines to rip right off of the "fuselage?" Now you take the Battlestar Galactica or the typical Corellian Star Destroyer those ships have the engines where they belong.
IMHO of course.
Apache123
Line Up and Wait
Regarding the enterprise and warp speed, it's based on the theory of creating a field which encases the ship like a bubble which compresses space in front of the field and expands it behind her. The enterprise itself is moving at sub-light speeds in "local" space-time contained by the bubble; the bubble is moving at warp speeds -- sorta like riding in a vomit comet. This is why they don't age (time dilation) and why the warp-engine's nacelles don't tear from the hull: they aren't moving that fast in "normal" space.
A simplified version of the theory, but I'm trying to keep my post to less than 10k words.
This is what I do in my spare time.
A simplified version of the theory, but I'm trying to keep my post to less than 10k words.
This is what I do in my spare time.
fgcason
En-Route
A good question.
But since most of the time, being in interstellar space, those Federation starships would be in, at best, dim starlight (not brilliant sunlight like in the show, LOL), some running lights might be a good idea, for close-maneuvering situations.
Exactly what color is a red position light when closing at right angles at whatever speed is required to pass stars that are 20-30 light years apart every 1/2 second. Would you notice a 100W light at that closure rate? Would it make a difference? What happens when they magically avoid the red position light only to ram into an invisible failed dwarf star or ejected planet at that speed?
Like gravity.
All the space shows tend to have flat deck ships with an actual down involved. Occasionally they have something with a cylinder design however most are just like what you'd find on earth.
Ever watch them turn? 45deg banking turn to change direction on the original plane of travel. They should simply rotate around to the desired direction and fire the engines.
Then there's the orbital mechanics stuff. They're in orbit, something they want to catch up to is in front of them, so they aim toward it and push in that direction to catch up. It's almost as silly as sound in space but at least most people don't understand that stuff..though it annoys the heck out of those of us who do.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
My goal in the service was to get out and work for a company that worked on the shuttle. I did that for 15 years and it was an amazing project to build the orbitors and be a part of several key system components that went into space dozens of times. Watching the first launch was the most exciting day of my life beside my kids being born. I helped put that damn thing into space. I touched parts that orbited the earth, and sadly crashed into the earth when things went bad.
It is a sad day today, but it is exciting to think about the next mission for the next generation. All things must come to an end.
I am very proud to have played a role in the Space Shuttle Program.
It is a sad day today, but it is exciting to think about the next mission for the next generation. All things must come to an end.
I am very proud to have played a role in the Space Shuttle Program.
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CMTowner
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Jim Logajan
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Without the space shuttle we will be unable to travel to the stars where we can speak to English speaking Vulcans, Klingons, and Romulans.
RobertSubnet
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ahh...I must have missed that part. Spent too much time looking at Uhura
Piloto
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Piloto
I would rather be on a hammack on the beach watching all those bikinis than in a tin can for 20 years travelling to Pluto just watching stars. Not to mention that there are no bikinis on Pluto.
Unlike Christopher Columbus travel to the New World that took him two months with stop at the Canary Islands, space travel is a whole different game. Columbus never had to worry about breathing or finding food at his destination and had all the fish he could catch.
José
RobertSubnet
Pre-takeoff checklist
He just had to worry about falling off the edge of the world. Or assuming CC knew otherwise, Columbus had to keep his crew from panicking and thinking they would sail off the edge of the world.
I really like the opening scene in the movie "1492" in which Columbus demonstrates how the world is round by having his son look at the setting mast of a ship as it goes over the horizon.
/Sorry for the thread hijack.
fgcason
En-Route
There is a painting somewhere called "I told you so." It's a ship going over the edge of the world into the great void beyond.
Yes, spaceflight is a far more hostile environment however if people never left their tree because it's something different and dangerous.......
IIRC, Galileo did that originally. I could be wrong though but that's one that comes to mind.
Piloto
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Please check my math.
As for the Search of Extra Terrestial Intelligence SETI program by listening to space alien radio transmissions it is just a dream with no justifiable fact.
Here are my findings:
For a 5 light years distance total path loss at 1 GHz is 367dbs
To receive on Earth a signal equivalent to GPS (-130dbm) (equivalent to noise floor) the source would need to produce 100 billions of 1billion watts. To put it in perspective the average nuclear power station produces 1000 Megawatts. It would require 100 billion nuclear power plants to generate such power. And this is for a star in the close neighborhood. Just imagine one 1000 light years away. Space is very, very big. Not to mention that radio spectrum is very wide. So what frequency to tune and at what time. We may be listening 1000 years too early because those aliens has not developed radio yet or maybe 1000 years too late because they discovered another form of communication. You have a greater chance at hearing someone shouting from Shannon, Ireland while listening at St John's, New Foundland. Space is very, very, veeery big.
José
As for the Search of Extra Terrestial Intelligence SETI program by listening to space alien radio transmissions it is just a dream with no justifiable fact.
Here are my findings:
For a 5 light years distance total path loss at 1 GHz is 367dbs
To receive on Earth a signal equivalent to GPS (-130dbm) (equivalent to noise floor) the source would need to produce 100 billions of 1billion watts. To put it in perspective the average nuclear power station produces 1000 Megawatts. It would require 100 billion nuclear power plants to generate such power. And this is for a star in the close neighborhood. Just imagine one 1000 light years away. Space is very, very big. Not to mention that radio spectrum is very wide. So what frequency to tune and at what time. We may be listening 1000 years too early because those aliens has not developed radio yet or maybe 1000 years too late because they discovered another form of communication. You have a greater chance at hearing someone shouting from Shannon, Ireland while listening at St John's, New Foundland. Space is very, very, veeery big.
José
denverpilot
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Glad you did it. Someone's gotta do something cool. My generation built... web servers. Yawn.
Apache123
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Why would you want to speak to the Romulans?
Jim Logajan
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They have cute ears and pretty pictures painted on their starships.
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
I see it differently. Our generation built Falcon 9 and Dragon, which - potentially - can take anyone to space. Their generation built Shuttle, which NEVER was going to take anyone to space, except for a handful of government employees. They peed away 30 years during which we could be making meaningful progress in space. It is down to our generation to fix that.
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fgcason
En-Route
Until very recently, planets outside our solar system was just a dope dream with no justifiable facts either. Give it time. Give it enough time to actually work.
The bigger problem that I think people overlook was shown perfectly a SETI comic from the mid 1980's. Two guys were standing on opposite sides of the grand canyon at the same time and both had hearing amplifier cones in their ears listening for signs of life elsewhere. The caption was "I don't hear anyone talking therefore I am alone in the universe."
If everyone is listening and no one is talking... That alone could be the end result of every SETI operation across the entire Universe no matter how big or elaborate the operation is. 400,000 radio dishes 1000 miles across with a light year long baseline operating for 100,000 years will do you squat good if no one is transmitting and is just as ineffective if the signal arrives in 100,000 years and 3 minutes later.
Yes, space is very very big. That's why you have to keep at it and not give up so easily based on a complete lack of information over an extremely short time period. Serious space work whether it's spaceflight or radio communication is about seriously long term projects. If you want to hear from something else out there, you have to turn the receiver on and leave it on..and wait..and wait...and keep waiting...and don't turn the radio off..and wait...and you'd be well advised to do some serious transmitting in the meantime to get their attention.
It's all about priorities..and the priorities here are not about space or exploration or hearing from other civilizations elsewhere.
Jim Logajan
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Sounds about right. Going to ~100 Hz might improve things quite a bit, though.
That high wattage output doesn't have to be continuous. Consider a charged capacitor that is suddenly shorted through a wire - the power output can be very high. For example, Sandia Labs can generate x-ray pulses of over 200 trillion watts. With modest generators they could send a morse code message using x-rays at reasonable speeds.
I think your premise of continuous output has lead you astray.
It was something else seeing the last flight of discovery. I'm proud of all we accomplished, disappointed that the program has ended, with no known replacement in place.
Don't be sad. The government has proven it can't do anymore than it did.
The space days aren't over, the private sector are working on things that's make the Discovery look like a Wright Flyer!
Yeah, the biggest mass spread of information since the printing press was really a drag.