Proposed Rule Changes for Flight Instructors (CFI's please read)

[Brad Z]

IMHO, the SAFE proposal would likely be considered outside the scope of the NPRM. The FAA is not asking for feedback or proposing changes to instructor currency requirements, they are proposing changing the expiration element of a CFI ticket. SAFEs proposal is probably best suited for a part 11 petition for rulemaking (which honestly would likely go nowhere due to prioritization limitations).

 

[midlifeflyer]

IMHO, the SAFE proposal would likely be considered outside the scope of the NPRM. The FAA is not asking for feedback or proposing changes to instructor currency requirements, they are proposing changing the expiration element of a CFI ticket. SAFEs proposal is probably best suited for a part 11 petition for rulemaking (which honestly would likely go nowhere due to prioritization limitations).

Yes and no. The proposed rule also expands renewal options. Widens the 3 month window. Codifies a WINGS renewal option. This could be thought of as in the same group, except that it unfortunately comes across as "make a special rule for me" self-promotion rather than a general rule expansion (@Dudley Henriques, that may be the source of much of the negative reaction you are seeing).

I think the answer may be @Doc Holliday's. Get into the FIRC mix. Produce a better product than the current 9 vendors. But that might require some internal changes to the FIRC program to allow for more options than the current 16 forced what SAFE accurately describes as "mind-numbing" hours, pretty strictly controlled by the FAA as to content.

 

[Dudley Henriques]

This could be thought of as in the same group, except that it unfortunately comes across as "make a special rule for me" self-promotion rather than a general rule expansion (@Dudley Henriques, that may be the source of much of the negative reaction you are seeing).

The SAFE blog post indicated a date maximum (I believe it was June 22nd) for the asked for replies and a specific FAA person (Name and email supplied) to receive the replies. I read this to be a last minute attempt to be heard as the normal FAA approved reply path might be time restricted.
Right or wrong, that was my read on what SAFE was asking and I read no sinister motive in the request.
Anyway, I came here in good faith hoping to help the cause. I see now that was a bad idea. From what I've read here there seems to be some fairly strong opinion about motive. I have to respect that this negativity is as well offered in good faith.
So as of this morning aside from answering comment directed to me in a respectful manner I won't be pushing this issue any longer.
DH

 

[Clip4]

Just to be clear, the Master Instructor Program although recommended by SAFE is a stand alone program not directly connected to SAFE.
And in the interest of fairness, it isn't the instructor who decides they have the qualifications for recognition by the Master Instructor Program but the program itself that makes that decision.
Not to say you are not qualified..............just clearing the air a bit here. )))
Dudley Henriques

Most the standards for the Master Program are actually quite low.


Minimum requirements pertaining to Hours:

• Total Hours = 500
• Hours Per Category:
  • Educator = 250
  • Service = 30
  • Media = 30
  • Continuing Education = 30
  • Participant = 30

 

[Dudley Henriques]

Most the standards for the Master Program are actually quite low.


Minimum requirements pertaining to Hours:

• Total Hours = 500
• Hours Per Category:
  • Educator = 250
  • Service = 30
  • Media = 30
  • Continuing Education = 30
  • Participant = 30

I should correct a data point I posted. The Master Instructor Program IS NOW associated with SAFE. It is a stand alone program but now resides within the SAFE offered services.
DH

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Whatever. Just some self important people trying to add legitimacy to their for profit operation by getting special dispensation from the government.

If SAFE wants their private paid for certification to equal cfi currency then get FIRC approval.

Nothing to see here and no action required.

 

[Randomskylane]

I'm starting the "Highest Order of Aviators". By simply joining ($1000/yr) I will review your pilot certificates and if you qualify (you will), I'll issue a certificate on parchment (framing additional) that states this pilot meets our ultra highest standards and has the title "Exalted Master Pilot".

Included is a gold plated card the member can carry with his FAA certificates.

Remember, we're promoting safety!

I was going to join but was turned off by the framing costs. Well actually not the one dollar fee but the shipping cost

ok actually now I’ve changed my mind, so send me your bank info and password and I’ll make a direct transfer

 

[MauleSkinner]

Get into the FIRC mix. Produce a better product than the current 9 vendors.

That’s probably the best answer…show the rest of the industry how it should be done.

Used to seem like Jeppesen was putting some effort into it 20-some years ago, but they probably found it difficult to compete with the “mind numbing” $99 for life that instructors seem to want.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That’s probably the best answer…show the rest of the industry how it should be done.

Used to seem like Jeppesen was putting some effort into it 20-some years ago, but they probably found it difficult to compete with the “mind numbing” $99 for life that instructors seem to want.

Well, if you have to do 16 hours to cover material that could be covered in 1/4 to 1/2 the time, it's hard not to be mind-numbing.

On the free side, Sporty's went to free this year, without the $99. It's part of a suite of pay-for products they are offering free to CFIs, like most of their flight training courses. Great idea. When I was doing certificate/rating training, I really liked the product and lamented I couldn't watch what my student was watching, so that's a good thing. I decided to try their FIRC this year. They used a bunch of their videos as supplementary material, which helped the hour pass when the written material took 5 minutes to digest.

The best FIRC I ever did was the first - live.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Well, if you have to do 16 hours to cover material that could be covered in 1/4 to 1/2 the time, it's hard not to be mind-numbing.

IMO, the material could be fleshed out without getting mind-numbing…but it needs to be updated and kept current, not just some form of regurgitation of the FAA handbooks. Which, of course, takes effort that needs to be paid for.

 

[midlifeflyer]

IMO, the material could be fleshed out without getting mind-numbing…but it needs to be updated and kept current, not just some form of regurgitation of the FAA handbooks. Which, of course, takes effort that needs to be paid for.

I'm not sure how anything that takes 16 hours isn't mind numbing. Part of the problem is lowest common denominator. The program assumes a CFI with a limited clientele who doesn't keep up. I would guess most of the CFIs on POA could do what I did when timing wasn't enforced - skip the material and do all the quizzes in an hour or so.

 

[ateamer]

IMO, the material could be fleshed out without getting mind-numbing…but it needs to be updated and kept current, not just some form of regurgitation of the FAA handbooks. Which, of course, takes effort that needs to be paid for.

There isn’t that much change in two years to take up 16 hours. Planes still fly the same way, pilots still crash in the same ways, the regs still say the same things to try and keep them from crashing. Oh, wait, students are now learners and the plane is flown from the flight deck instead of the cockpit.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'm not sure how anything that takes 16 hours isn't mind numbing.

How many hours does it take to read everything that you do on POA and/or BeechTalk every 24 months, and why isn’t that so mind-numbing that you don’t want to do it? I’m guessing it’s largely due to the fact that you don’t decide to pick a weekend to spend 16 hours here, because quite honestly, it’s a lot of the same stuff over and over.

I’m also guessing that most instructors know their certificate expires every two years…why not have an online FIRC with quarterly, two-hour installments?

 

[sarangan]

How many hours does it take to read everything that you do on POA and/or BeechTalk every 24 months, and why isn’t that so mind-numbing that you don’t want to do it? I’m guessing it’s largely due to the fact that you don’t decide to pick a weekend to spend 16 hours here, because quite honestly, it’s a lot of the same stuff over and over.

I’m also guessing that most instructors know their certificate expires every two years…why not have an online FIRC with quarterly, two-hour installments?

I have been using Gleim FIRC, and I have sometimes signed up a year before the expiration date and did it in small steps.

 

[Clip4]

There isn’t that much change in two years to take up 16 hours. Planes still fly the same way, pilots still crash in the same ways, the regs still say the same things to try and keep them from crashing. Oh, wait, students are now learners and the plane is flown from the flight deck instead of the cockpit.

The issue in part is the large percentage of instructor certificate holders that don’t instruct at all and a rather high number of student practical test completions required to maintain the certificate by activity. 5 practical tests over 2 years is out of reach of those who teach part time, especially in the northern regions.

 

[Piper Dreaming]

The issue in part is the large percentage of instructor certificate holders that don’t instruct at all and a rather high number of student practical test completions required to maintain the certificate by activity. 5 practical tests over 2 years is out of reach of those who teach part time, especially in the northern regions.

That averages out to once almost every 5 months, which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That averages out to once almost every 5 months, which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

It is in many situations. Part time CFI with a full time non-aviation career and a CFI who focuses on post certificate advanced, recurrent, and transition training come to mind immediately since both have applied to me.

 

[Clip4]

That averages out to once almost every 5 months, which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

Ever heard of standard time? When it gets dark after 5:30 pm 4 months out of the year the only instructional days are weekends for a CFI working a normal full time gig.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ever heard of standard time? When it gets dark after 5:30 pm 4 months out of the year the only instructional days are weekends for a CFI working a normal full time gig.

And some CFI's have jobs with flexible hours, even though they work a "full time gig".

 

[RussR]

The issue in part is the large percentage of instructor certificate holders that don’t instruct at all and a rather high number of student practical test completions required to maintain the certificate by activity. 5 practical tests over 2 years is out of reach of those who teach part time, especially in the northern regions.

5 checkrides in 2 years seems to me to be a reasonable minimum number to be able to renew using "activity" as the method. Sending students for checkrides tends to enforce that you're keeping up with regulation changes and that kind of thing. So, if you're not able to maintain that number, you need to show that you're staying up to date some other way.

As a part time CFI, there were times I could renew based on student checkrides and times I couldn't. When I couldn't, I may have flown just as much as a CFI, but it was transition training or new avionics or similar. But of course the problem is that when doing that kind of training, there is no enforced method of checking that I'm staying up to date. I could be decades old in my regulation knowledge and it wouldn't become apparent.

To me, that's the problem with trying to allow CFI renewal for doing things other than checkrides. There's no system to check your ability or knowledge as a CFI, unless someone can come up with a way to do that. Currently, that method is the FIRC, although I agree it's far from perfect.

 

[Piper Dreaming]

Ever heard of standard time? When it gets dark after 5:30 pm 4 months out of the year the only instructional days are weekends for a CFI working a normal full time gig.

Do 3 in the other 8 months of the year.

The bar seems set low to me, 5 in 2 years.