Proper radio call.

bobmrg said:
There is no "proper radio call." For communications in general, AIM 4-2-1(b) says "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." Thanks for reading my book, but understand that it contains suggested phraseology, not required phraseology. Controllers are required to use specific wording, pilots are not.

Bob Gardner
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Thank you Bob, I enjoy your book and often assign chapters of it as homework to clients who are having trouble understanding radio communications. I particularly like how you explain why good radio communication is important.

I train out of a class delta airport and the tower is very tolerant of my client’s sometimes flawed radio communication.

I find that even instrument rated pilots forget what they are doing on the radio when they are learning how to fly a gyroplane.

I often take a tower tour with clients so communication seems more natural and the client gets a better feel for the challenges ATC faces.
 
bobmrg said:
There is no "proper radio call." For communications in general, AIM 4-2-1(b) says "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." Thanks for reading my book, but understand that it contains suggested phraseology, not required phraseology. Controllers are required to use specific wording, pilots are not.

Bob Gardner
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Well there you have it.

From the guy that wrote the book on the stuff, literally :)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
hmmmm I just say "5MV holding Short 18"
If I am not on FF then "Holding Short 18 VFR departure to the west"

It is probably not correct but it is the way I have done it.
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LIAR! I've heard you so many times. "Enterprise Tower, Cirrus, I'm gonna start flying now, Over and out"

I know this is't the pet peeve thread, but what do you all think of "Meacham tower, bugdestroyer 666 holding short one four at alpha, ready in sequence"?

I have a CFI that always laughs and says "you think he's ever ready out of sequence"?

Also, you'll notice bugdestroyer 666 says the runway AND intersection it's holding at. That's a good habit that got drilled into me at KFUL.
 
I only say "in sequence" when I'm not able to get to the runway because there's someone ahead of me.
Like previously suggested I usually just say "Navion 5327K Ready" sometimes adding where (Ready 26 at A3) if I'm not at the obvious holding point.

If you're at the end of the runway, tower assumes if you say you're ready, you want to depart. It's like taxiing at a class B airport. You've already called for your clearance. The ground controller most likely has a strip right in front of him knowing what your intentions are...

Dulles Ground, Navion 5327K, Landmark, Taxi.

suffices just fine.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
...
Here's one - I try not to make any calls to the tower when I see another plane is in a critical phase of flight (about to touch down, rolling down the runway for takeoff, etc) in case an emergency arises. Just the other day, I heard the tower try to make a "GO AROUND!!" call to someone and they got stepped on by a pilot announcing his desire to depart. ATC was trying to tell a landing plane to go around because the one who came in before him was suffering a nosewheel collapse. Does anyone else do this, or do you just make your calls when you are ready to make your calls? Am I wrong to wait?
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That's a good call and I do that too.
 
MetalCloud said:
That's a good call and I do that too.
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If I'm sitting at the hold-short line and the obvious response to a call for takeoff will be "hold short," (such as a plane on final) I don't bother calling yet.
 
EppyGA said:
Mine is Warrior xxxxx ready at xx

Just to keep this thread going for a few more pages, do you say anything if you're number two in line or do you wait until you're number 1?
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Timbeck2 said:
Say "holding in sequence." Since ATC is first come first served, waiting until you're number one may put you behind someone else who may be at another intersection.
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I didn't know about the "holding in sequence" line but will definitely use it. I got bit by this once, busy day and a plane at the hold short line when I pulled out of the run-up area behind him. There was still a couple other planes in the run-up area. I was waiting to hear the tower talk to the guy in front of me when one of the planes still in the run-up area (he was in front of me to my 10 o'clock and just off the left wing of the guy directly in front of me) called the tower and was put in front of me because I hadn't contacted the tower yet. I quickly contacted the tower and they put me behind that guy, now #3 instead of where I thought I would be #2.

For me I try to stick to the 'who are you calling, who are you, where are you, what do you want' radio call. My typical call would be "Chino tower, Cherokee xxxxx, holding short runway 26R at Papa, requesting takeoff with (left closed traffic, west bound departure, southeast departure, whatever)." Depending on traffic and where I want to go the tower may have me depart 26R or cross and depart 26L, may approve me for the departure I requested or tell me to extend out, etc... I figure if the tower knows where I am and where I want to go after departing it only helps them know what to have me do.
 
Also uhhh, got to work, uhh, on your pilot talk, uhhhhh for professionalism, try tables, uhhh saftey and stuff.


 
KCNO was also rigid on the intersection calls. That was maybe 2 years ago. Good that they were rigid!
 
rolivi said:
KCNO was also rigid on the intersection calls. That was maybe 2 years ago. Good that they were rigid!
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They still are, glad I am doing my training there.
 
denverpilot said:
Plus I operate out of an airport with a permanent special procedure in effect -- direction of flight is provided to the ground controller. Always. Whether a run up is needed is provided to the ground controller. Always.

And the ground controller sequences folks to the runways and then says "MONITOR Tower"... Always.

So technically -- I never say ANYTHING to the Tower, except "Line up and wait Runway XX..." Or "Cleared for takeoff Runway XX". And neither does anyone else at my home airport.

:)
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I was sitting there thinking about what I say, then I realized that I don't say anything at the home airport. :rofl:

I think I alternate between "ready for departure", "ready for takeoff", and "ready in sequence". I have never thought about what I say, I just say it, LOL.
 
Timbeck2 said:
For a towered airport, the controller will either say fly runway heading or proceed on course or turn right heading ###, etc. As a controller I have no problem with "ready to go, departure" or "holding short of runway." I would rather hear "ready to go" rather than "ready for departure".

No one will care how cool you sound but everyone will care or remember if you sound stupid. ;)
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I was specifically taught that "takeoff" is a word that only a controller should say. Pilots should use departure when requesting takeoff to avoid confusion.
 
jspilot said:
I was specifically taught that "takeoff" is a word that only a controller should say. Pilots should use departure when requesting takeoff to avoid confusion.
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No argument, but I am wary of using words like "only" and "never" or "always" in an aviation context; there is no such restriction in the controller's handbook.

After one has been flying awhile, "what I was taught" should be replaced with "what I have learned." Instructors make mistakes.

Bob
 
Vance Breese said:
That certainly clears that up.

I will stick with departure.

As to sequencing it depends on the airport.

Camarillo (CMA) doesn’t want the departing aircraft to change to tower frequency until they are number one and they want the direction of flight on ground frequency.

At Santa Maria (SMX) Alpha Eight is wide and they would like to know when people are ready and their direction of flight because they may sequence them out of order to manage traffic flow better.

It seems to me each tower has its own culture and what they prefer to hear in radio comunication.

Thank you all for your help and opinions.
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Hmm, I've been to CMA and switched to Tower when I was ready. Never heard any statement against that from ATIS, or from Tower.

The only time I've run across a procedure that differs from "run up, ready, switch to tower, let them sequence" is at Fresno, where the B8 run-up area isn't right at the hold short line, and you need another taxi clearance from Ground first.
 
bradg33 said:
If I'm sitting at the hold-short line and the obvious response to a call for takeoff will be "hold short," (such as a plane on final) I don't bother calling yet.
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I let them know as soon as I'm ready and there is clear space on the freq. Why? So they know. If there's a stream of arrivals and a couple guys in the pattern I NEED the tower to know that I'm ready to go so he can fit me in. You can save a few gallons.
 
jspilot said:
I was specifically taught that "takeoff" is a word that only a controller should say. Pilots should use departure when requesting takeoff to avoid confusion.
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Yeah...muthascratchuh that's OUR word. (where's that black, one eyebrow raised smiley when you need it?)
 
jspilot said:
"Ready for a (direction of intended flight) departure." is one hundred times better than "ready to go." Or "ready for takeoff." because other planes who may be in the area and on frequency will then know where about a to look for you once airpoborne.

I have a huge pet peeve with how so many pilots take radio communication as a chance to sound cool I.e "ready to go." Ready to go is essentially only helpful to the Air traffic controller, who may actually also benefit from a reminder that you intended to make a south bound departure after takeoff and it's completely useless to anyone in the air who may hear your call.

We should all be trying to give the best information we can in our radio calls. No one will care how cool you sound on the radio.
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Pet peeves aside, most towered airports I have flown out of have said things such as "right turn approved" as part of the takeoff clearance unless folks were going straight out.
 
I think I'm going to try "I'm ready to start flying now..."
 
I just use my falsetto voice... "I am ready to go now, boys. Please get everyone out of the way for me...."

At Phoenix International, don't say nothing on tower until they call you, then answer. Call them first and they will yell at you.
 
MAKG1 said:
The only time I've run across a procedure that differs from "run up, ready, switch to tower, let them sequence" is at Fresno, where the B8 run-up area isn't right at the hold short line, and you need another taxi clearance from Ground first.
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I guess I've had all the fun then. Heh. Besides my home airport special procedures, when I flew with @jesse at KLNK, whenever we called Clearance Delivery they'd give the clearance and taxi clearance all at the same time if you were ready to taxi and "monitor ground". So you'd toodle up and do your run up and then flip to Tower without ever have transmitting on Ground.

midlifeflyer said:
Pet peeves aside, most towered airports I have flown out of have said things such as "right turn approved" as part of the takeoff clearance unless folks were going straight out.
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It's about 50/50 at APA as to whether they'll pre-approve the turn. We brief "Initial heading after departure" in the Seminole and that becomes an "if" statement in the briefing. Ha.

Zeldman said:
At Phoenix International, don't say nothing on tower until they call you, then answer. Call them first and they will yell at you.
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APA too. You'll get w lecture on what MONITOR means. Heh. I haven't gotten one but I've heard someone get one! LOL. I also heard someone do it on purpose to pick a fight with the Tower...

"Are we going to go here today?"
"I'm busy up here."
"Didn't sound busy."
"I was on the land line."
"Could have gotten three of us out by now."

Guy was cranky and asking for trouble. Controller just sighed and cleared him for takeoff.

LOL! The joys of a really busy airport... Surprised he didn't give him a phone number to call and clearance to taxi back to where he started from.
 
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GND: Baron 123AB, would you like an intersection takeoff 4500 feet remaining.
3AB: We can do that.
GND: Navion 5327K, would you like the intersection, 4500 remaining.
27K: We'd like that.
GND: Umm... Baron 3AB it looks like it's actually only 4000' remaining.
3AB: We can still do that.
GND: 27K can you take 4000'?
27K: I only need 850'
 
bobmrg said:
No argument, but I am wary of using words like "only" and "never" or "always" in an aviation context; there is no such restriction in the controller's handbook.

After one has been flying awhile, "what I was taught" should be replaced with "what I have learned." Instructors make mistakes.

Bob
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Good point. I do agree that words like never and always are a bit too much in most conversations.

In reality, semantics aside, I operate under the belief that any communication between atc and me the pilot should be as effective as possible and the actual words rarely matter. The most important part is both sides know the others intention and can process what the other one is saying.
 
bobmrg said:
No argument, but I am wary of using words like "only" and "never" or "always" in an aviation context; there is no such restriction in the controller's handbook.

After one has been flying awhile, "what I was taught" should be replaced with "what I have learned." Instructors make mistakes.

Bob
Click to expand...

Bob, where can I pick up your book? It covers radio communication? Sounds like something I ought to read up on. I think you know, I am a student (low hours, haven't soloed yet), and I keep getting surprised at certain issues that come up on this site with many experienced pilots disagreeing on what I thought were fundamentals.

I've always been impressed by the thought that goes into procedures in aviation, by what I see as "ratcheting" up procedures, learning from mistakes and trying to make it as foolproof as possible.

I don't know much, but it does surprise me that that is no iron clad terminology for an aircraft about to takeoff. My first, inexperienced thought was "ready to go" is not very specific and if a pilot let up on the mic button early the operative word "go" is so short it could be lost in transmission. The word "takeoff" seems to me to be very specific, in towered or non towered zones, and the word "departure" is even longer, but as a student I thought that it didn't necessarily mean takeoff.

As a student, I have been learning to call out "entering and backtracking runway three zero for departure" but just before takeoff "taking off runway three zero, left turn out" (I am an American trying to learn to fly in Norway and maybe they have other rules here?) but it seems smart to me that departure means the intention to takeoff, but "takeoff" means, "I am now going to accelerate and take off".

Is this not a standardized thing in the US?
 
I think in the US "backtracking" is "backtaxi" and you can get that in towered airports too. So here it is important to know that the difference between backtaxi and taxi back is that in the first you must not leave the runway and in the second you must.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Bob, where can I pick up your book? It covers radio communication? Sounds like something I ought to read up on. I think you know, I am a student (low hours, haven't soloed yet), and I keep getting surprised at certain issues that come up on this site with many experienced pilots disagreeing on what I thought were fundamentals.

I've always been impressed by the thought that goes into procedures in aviation, by what I see as "ratcheting" up procedures, learning from mistakes and trying to make it as foolproof as possible.

I don't know much, but it does surprise me that that is no iron clad terminology for an aircraft about to takeoff. My first, inexperienced thought was "ready to go" is not very specific and if a pilot let up on the mic button early the operative word "go" is so short it could be lost in transmission. The word "takeoff" seems to me to be very specific, in towered or non towered zones, and the word "departure" is even longer, but as a student I thought that it didn't necessarily mean takeoff.

As a student, I have been learning to call out "entering and backtracking runway three zero for departure" but just before takeoff "taking off runway three zero, left turn out" (I am an American trying to learn to fly in Norway and maybe they have other rules here?) but it seems smart to me that departure means the intention to takeoff, but "takeoff" means, "I am now going to accelerate and take off".

Is this not a standardized thing in the US?
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Are you learning in the US or in Norway? If you are learning in Norway there are bound to be small differences in the terminology used.
 
Everskyward said:
Are you learning in the US or in Norway? If you are learning in Norway there are bound to be small differences in the terminology used.
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In Norway. My experience so far, Norway is in most ways the same as the US, except (so far in my education) in airspace, we have no E Airspace. I will ask my instructor if the radio telephony aspect is the same as the US.
Of course, I will go by what my instructors tell me, but it seems to me that the basis is the same, that Europe in general mirrors the FAA regulations. Which makes sense, in that pilots can come here from the US and correctly follow the rules as we can also go to the US from here and not violate any rules.

As far as radio terminology, it is all done in English here, but one can speak Norwegian. To get your "radio operator" certificate, if you cannot handle English as the main language you are restricted to Norwegian airspace...but as an American that is not a problem for me. All radio traffic is defaulted to English.
 
LongRoadBob said:
In Norway. My experience so far, Norway is in most ways the same as the US, except (so far in my education) in airspace, we have no E Airspace. I will ask my instructor if the radio telephony aspect is the same as the US.
Of course, I will go by what my instructors tell me, but it seems to me that the basis is the same, that Europe in general mirrors the FAA regulations. Which makes sense, in that pilots can come here from the US and correctly follow the rules as we can also go to the US from here and not violate any rules.

As far as radio terminology, it is all done in English here, but one can speak Norwegian. To get your "radio operator" certificate, if you cannot handle English as the main language you are restricted to Norwegian airspace...but as an American that is not a problem for me. All radio traffic is defaulted to English.
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The basics may be the same but I have found that different countries sometimes use slightly different terminology for the same thing. This is even true between the US and Canada. It's not as if you can't figure out what they mean, especially if you are a native English speaker, but you may be hearing different words.

People complain about ICAO harmonization, but a few years ago much of the world used "line up and wait", while we stuck to "position and hold" in the US until we changed.

Other countries use "decimal" instead of "point" in the frequency, such as "one two two decimal four". In Canada they call the traffic pattern a "circuit". They also say, "descend when ready" instead of "descend at pilot's discretion". So if you are looking for terminology rules, they may not be quite the same in Norway as in the US.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Bob, where can I pick up your book? It covers radio communication? Sounds like something I ought to read up on. I think you know, I am a student (low hours, haven't soloed yet), and I keep getting surprised at certain issues that come up on this site with many experienced pilots disagreeing on what I thought were fundamentals.

I've always been impressed by the thought that goes into procedures in aviation, by what I see as "ratcheting" up procedures, learning from mistakes and trying to make it as foolproof as possible.

I don't know much, but it does surprise me that that is no iron clad terminology for an aircraft about to takeoff. My first, inexperienced thought was "ready to go" is not very specific and if a pilot let up on the mic button early the operative word "go" is so short it could be lost in transmission. The word "takeoff" seems to me to be very specific, in towered or non towered zones, and the word "departure" is even longer, but as a student I thought that it didn't necessarily mean takeoff.

As a student, I have been learning to call out "entering and backtracking runway three zero for departure" but just before takeoff "taking off runway three zero, left turn out" (I am an American trying to learn to fly in Norway and maybe they have other rules here?) but it seems smart to me that departure means the intention to takeoff, but "takeoff" means, "I am now going to accelerate and take off".

Is this not a standardized thing in the US?
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Irrelevant. You are burning brain cells for no good reason. "Standardization" means that everyone follows the same rules....but there are many, many situations in which there are no written rules and common sense must be used. The AIM tells pilots to use whatever words are necessary to get the message across....far from ironclad.

You an get my books from Sporty's, Amazon, Barnes&Noble, most pilot supply shops (in the US) or direct from www.asa2fly.com.

Bob
 
My CFI told me not to use " Ready for Take-Off" as it will create confusion sometimes, rather use " Ready for Departure".
 
cloudsurfer11 said:
My CFI told me not to use " Ready for Take-Off" as it will create confusion sometimes, rather use " Ready for Departure".
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Either one should work without creating any confusion. Though saying departure might confuse if you are staying in the pattern.
 
"Napa Tower, Arrow 123SA is ready to go, one eight right."

"Uh, Arrow, 3SA, do you need to taxi back to the ramp for the restroom?"
 
No controller will ever correct a pilot whether they say ready for take off or ready for departure. If it confuses the controller, the controller shouldn't be one.
 
A pilot saying "Ready for takeoff" could be confused with what alternative meaning, exactly? :confused2:
 
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