private pilot using "student pilot" when contacting ATC

\__[Ô]__/

\__[Ô]__/

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
496
Location
Ames, IA
Display Name
Display name:
david
I know the AIM recommends student pilots identify themselves as such when contacting ATC. I'm wondering what people think about private pilots who are rusty on radio skill saying "student pilot" on initial contact. I heard someone do this recently and it surprised me.

It seems the best plan would be for the pilot to get more training in radio skills, but failing that... is using the "student pilot" call a good idea or bad idea? Are there any unintended consequences to doing that?
 
If it helps you deal with ATC effectively, it's a good idea, and there are no other consequences, intended or otherwise.
 
I guess you can always call yourself a noob but I don't see a point. If you're not proficient enough to fly alone to then take more lessons.
 
What if upon landing they ask for proof that you're a student? You'd have to show them a student pilot certificate and a logbook endorsement....especially in class B.
If you say 'student pilot" at night you're busted.
The entire system is one primarily of voluntary compliance - i.e. the "honor system". As someone else mentioned it's OK to say "unfamliar" with the area or airport. And if someone is rusty on radio skills they can speak "normally" as long as they're understandable. I frequently hear pilots say things like: yes/yeah, no, twenty five hundred feet (instead of two thousand five hundred feet) and nine instead of niner. And baker instead of bravo. But their transmission is understandable.
 
Why would a student pilot be busted at night, there is an endorsement for that. Also, saying student pilot doesn't mean solo, it simply means you are talking and hopefully flying.

I would rather hear this than "yeah tower, um... I am new here, and haven't flown in a while. Could you talk slower and in plain English please" add about 20 Um's and pauses in there
 
DogDaddy said:
What if upon landing they ask for proof that you're a student? You'd have to show them a student pilot certificate and a logbook endorsement....especially in class B.
Click to expand...

So what regulation was violated if he shows them a Private Pilot Certificate and states why he checked in as a student?


DogDaddy said:
If you say 'student pilot" at night you're busted.
Click to expand...

Really?

DogDaddy said:
The entire system is one primarily of voluntary compliance - i.e. the "honor system". As someone else mentioned it's OK to say "unfamliar" with the area or airport.
Click to expand...

Don't disagree.
 
DogDaddy said:
If you say 'student pilot" at night you're busted.
Click to expand...

Is that starting at sunset, civil twilight, or one hour after sunset?

Just want to be sure. Would be a shame to lose my cert for saying it one minute too late.

:rofl:
 
we're all students. there are some that sit in front of the class and have all the answers too. they might know what they're talking about but I sit in the back. How would I know.
 
Hell, just tell them you're unfamiliar and could use some help.

I flew into PSC tired, beat up from turbulence, and somewhat disoriented. The tower did a wonderful job of helping me get down without busting any FARS and not embarrassing myself. Likewise on my long solo cross country. My instructor required that I land at a towered airport I had never been too. I approached STC and the tower was more than helpful. I just don't see this as a problem as long as you stay away from the really busy airports and be clear on what you need with your radio communications.
 
I wasn't aware that students couldn't fly at night. I also wasn't aware that ATC could demand to see your cert.

Learn something new everyday
 
DogDaddy said:
What if upon landing they ask for proof that you're a student?
Click to expand...

Why would they do that?

You'd have to show them a student pilot certificate and a logbook endorsement....especially in class B.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't be able to show them a student certificate because you don't have one. So what?
 
If you really want priority handling, do what my old neighbor did when he brought his super cub to town for it's annual inspection. If he couldn't get a word in edgewise he'd call "tower, piper 2BB need a landing clearance, bringing her in on one engine". That one would indeed get him a lecture afterward, but 5-6 years later when he was ready for his next annual inspection they'd have forgiven him or forgotten.
 
SkyHog said:
I wasn't aware that students couldn't fly at night. I also wasn't aware that ATC could demand to see your cert.

Learn something new everyday
Click to expand...
I guess I am in the back seat in the classroom across the hallway. Did not know that either.
 
JHW said:
If you really want priority handling, do what my old neighbor did when he brought his super cub to town for it's annual inspection. If he couldn't get a word in edgewise he'd call "tower, piper 2BB need a landing clearance, bringing her in on one engine". That one would indeed get him a lecture afterward, but 5-6 years later when he was ready for his next annual inspection they'd have forgiven him or forgotten.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
JHW said:
If you really want priority handling, do what my old neighbor did when he brought his super cub to town for it's annual inspection. If he couldn't get a word in edgewise he'd call "tower, piper 2BB need a landing clearance, bringing her in on one engine". That one would indeed get him a lecture afterward, but 5-6 years later when he was ready for his next annual inspection they'd have forgiven him or forgotten.
Click to expand...


Piper 2BB, coming in Hot!!!! and I don't have time for a go-around
 
JHW said:
If you really want priority handling, do what my old neighbor did when he brought his super cub to town for it's annual inspection. If he couldn't get a word in edgewise he'd call "tower, piper 2BB need a landing clearance, bringing her in on one engine". That one would indeed get him a lecture afterward, but 5-6 years later when he was ready for his next annual inspection they'd have forgiven him or forgotten.
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
You can say "student pilot" at any time. Even when you are flying a 777 or the 787 if they ever get back in the air. But, I think you might want to steer clear of Bravo airports if you are feeling like a student that day.
 
I went through this and did lots of posting on this forum that documents it.

I got a TON of help from people on this forum, including a detailed script for my route when I had to go into the DFW area due to my Mom being hospitalized (Thanks Troy.)

I also was sent a set of cassette tapes to listen and study radio communications (Thanks Grant.)

If you live away from a metropolitan area, start flying into a Class D airport with light traffic. Use the "who you are, where you are and what you want to do" guideline until you get comfortable with it.

Once the guys in that Class D tower no longer have the desire to send up a Surface to Air Missile after you, then move onto Class C or busier airports.

I'm certainly no Chuck Yeager on the radio yet, but I am over the fright and can effectively communicate and operate.

Good luck with it.
 
Speak slowly and they'll get the message that you're not up to speed.
 
You missed the point of my reply. It's not a matter of what is legal, what ATC can/cannot do, what time sunset starts, what someone is going to check or not check, it's a matter of wanting or not wanting to comply.
There are so many things we can do and never get caught, or if we did get caught maybe there are no bad consequences. Some student pilots carry passengers, with no instructor present. Some pilots carry px at night even though they're not night current. Some pilots fly aircraft they are not endorsed for. And I have heard of some pilots saying "student pilot" so that ATC will give them special consideration. As for myself, I try follow the rules.
If one is not a student pilot, there's no need to identify yourself as such. Just address the particular issue (such as radio use, as the OP mentioned) and do the best you can, and hopefully get some add'l training. In this case training wouldn't necessarily require paying an instructor for some ground school or flight time. It could mean just reading up on the subject or asking other pilots how they do it. ( for example, "I plan to fly from Sarasota to Daytona...how should I go about calling Orlando Approach?")
 
"New York Approach. United 388 Heavy. Level at flight level 290. Student Pilot"

Seriously, though. If it's rusty radio skills, ATC will know that soon enough. And if you need them to slow down, just ask. I can't fathom a good reason for a private pilot to say "student pilot."
 
Another thing that just came to mind. If your asking ATC to transition their airspace and add that you are a student pilot they will be less likely to let you in because you might cause problems.
 
MachFly said:
Another thing that just came to mind. If your asking ATC to transition their airspace and add that you are a student pilot they will be less likely to let you in because you might cause problems.
Click to expand...
They are just as likely (or unlikely) to let you in if you sound very rusty.

I've heard it on the radio more than once. Even in Class D, let along for flight following. Busy day; heavy controller workload. Four airplanes call in; three get in; 4th, the one with the "uhh....."s gets "aircraft calling...remain clear..."
 
midlifeflyer said:
They are just as likely (or unlikely) to let you in if you sound very rusty.
Click to expand...

True. Although in that case they need to notice that your rusty from your first and only call.

Imagine someone asking for a bravo clearance, they give it to him (because from the first call he sounded fine), then they give him a vector and he becomes completely lost.
 
midlifeflyer said:
They are just as likely (or unlikely) to let you in if you sound very rusty.

I've heard it on the radio more than once. Even in Class D, let along for flight following. Busy day; heavy controller workload. Four airplanes call in; three get in; 4th, the one with the "uhh....."s gets "aircraft calling...remain clear..."
Click to expand...

mark, they just memorized your tail number :rofl::rofl:
 
\__[Ô]__/;1084785 said:
It seems the best plan would be for the pilot to get more training in radio skills, but failing that... is using the "student pilot" call a good idea or bad idea? Are there any unintended consequences to doing that?
Click to expand...

I would not like to see that become a common practice among rated pilots. My concern is that controllers might be less likely to give students extra help if they weren't sure it really was a student pilot.
 
I don't think it ethical to use the term Student Pilot over the radio unless one is currently training for a new rating. Once you've passed the checkride it incumbent upon you to act accordingly. If not, put someone in the right seat who's PIC qualified and can help you get back up to speed. Some of these people are even allowed to charge you money for them sitting there, even if that's all they do is function as ballast.

roncachamp said:
You wouldn't be able to show them a student certificate because you don't have one. So what?
Click to expand...

All certificated pilots have a student certificate, as they are required to have it on their person when acting as PIC.

Shhhhhh the student certificate is also known as a medical certificate, but don't tell anyone.
 
OK, I heard a guy over northern KY once talking with this sweetheart on Cincy approach. He was down in the turbulence getting beat up pretty badly and must have been flying to different airports practicing his landings. The sweetheart gave him his squawk code and asked him to ident but he didn't. She asked him three more times getting less sweet each time. He had obviously forgotten where the ident button was. After hearing her sweet voice go sour I interjected "Push the little button on your transponder" Not very descriptive but he must have found it because she became sweet again.

About two minutes latter he calls her back and says " I am just gonna turn around and land at Podunk field I have to pee really bad. the radio was unbelievably silent for at least a full minute when she comes back ans simply says "OK"

After that exchange I had to pee but I didn't tell her.
 
Jaybird180 said:
All certificated pilots have a student certificate, as they are required to have it on their person when acting as PIC.

Shhhhhh the student certificate is also known as a medical certificate, but don't tell anyone.
Click to expand...

Huh? SOME medical certificates are combined with student pilot certificates, if you ask for that when you apply. Mine just says "MEDICAL CERTIFICATE SECOND CLASS" with nothing about student pilots on it. The obverse has a list of regulations on it, instead of student pilot endorsements. My last one did have a student pilot certificate (and it was third class) because I was a student pilot then.
 
Jaybird180 said:
All certificated pilots have a student certificate, as they are required to have it on their person when acting as PIC.

Shhhhhh the student certificate is also known as a medical certificate, but don't tell anyone.
Click to expand...
Don't worry. I won't. Especially since it's not true. I think I last had a medical that was, even on paper, combined with a student pilot certificate in 1991 or 1992.

Can you find the "student pilot" on this one (couldn't find an image of the latest version spot out by computer)?
med1.gif
 
Last edited:
Jaybird180 said:
All certificated pilots have a student certificate, as they are required to have it on their person when acting as PIC.

Shhhhhh the student certificate is also known as a medical certificate, but don't tell anyone.
Click to expand...

Wrong. While a medical can also serve as a Student Pilot certificate if the right form is used it's not always the case. None of the Second or First Class medicals I've held have ever had the Student Pilot information on them.

And a Student Pilot certificate can be issued by the FSDO or DPE that is not a medical certificate.
 
I still think if it is radio issues or nervousness using the radio or working at towered fields the best answer is to listen to liveatc.net. Listen to it at work instead of music if you can. Listen to it at home. Anticipate what the next call would be and formulate what your response would be in any given radio call. This is how we trained in the military via listening quite a bit at first and anticipating what the call would be next and what your response would be. Lastly listen, think then speak. The more you hear it the less nervous you get about making the call yourself.

Carl
 
I am not the least bit shy to to advise "pilot unfamiliar with area" when I am being vectored via different visual waypoints at airports I have not visited before. My experience is that ATC are only too happy to help you out.
 
Me: Cessna 8526J, request to transition your airspace.

ATC: climb to 11,000, continue your own navigation. (11,000 was top of Bravo.)
 
DogDaddy said:
You missed the point of my reply. It's not a matter of what is legal, what ATC can/cannot do, what time sunset starts, what someone is going to check or not check, it's a matter of wanting or not wanting to comply.
There are so many things we can do and never get caught, or if we did get caught maybe there are no bad consequences. Some student pilots carry passengers, with no instructor present. Some pilots carry px at night even though they're not night current. Some pilots fly aircraft they are not endorsed for. And I have heard of some pilots saying "student pilot" so that ATC will give them special consideration. As for myself, I try follow the rules.
If one is not a student pilot, there's no need to identify yourself as such. Just address the particular issue (such as radio use, as the OP mentioned) and do the best you can, and hopefully get some add'l training. In this case training wouldn't necessarily require paying an instructor for some ground school or flight time. It could mean just reading up on the subject or asking other pilots how they do it. ( for example, "I plan to fly from Sarasota to Daytona...how should I go about calling Orlando Approach?")
Click to expand...

You seem to be inferring that it is against the rules to tell ATC you are a student pilot. I can't find anything that says you cannot do that, or even shouldn't do that.

The only reference to it at all is the AIM's suggestion that it can be appended to your initial call up if you so desire.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top