private pilot using "student pilot" when contacting ATC

MachFly said:
Another thing that just came to mind. If your asking ATC to transition their airspace and add that you are a student pilot they will be less likely to let you in because you might cause problems.
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It depends. Some places would rather be talking to you rather that trust you to skirt the edge on your own. Kansas City and Indianapolis are like that.
 
SkyHog said:
You seem to be inferring that it is against the rules to tell ATC you are a student pilot. I can't find anything that says you cannot do that, or even shouldn't do that.
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I couldn't find anything banning or discouraging the practice either. That's why I asked for thoughts on the practice. Seems there's mixed opinions (surprise!).

I was a little annoyed when i heard the pilot (who i know isn't a student pilot) make that call. But i haven't come up with much to justify that annoyance other than the feeling that he should just get more training until he's comfortable talking with ATC.
 
SkyHog said:
You seem to be inferring that it is against the rules to tell ATC you are a student pilot. I can't find anything that says you cannot do that, or even shouldn't do that.

The only reference to it at all is the AIM's suggestion that it can be appended to your initial call up if you so desire.
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So your allowed to lie?

On this bases every time I contact ATC I'll be giving them a different tail number, in case if I do something wrong I won't get in trouble.
 
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JHW said:
It depends. Some places would rather be talking to you rather that trust you to skirt the edge on your own. Kansas City and Indianapolis are like that.
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There is talking and there is entering their airspace. If you get into a mid-air while in their airspace guess who gets to answer questions.
 
MachFly said:
There is talking and there is entering their airspace. If you get into a mid-air while in their airspace guess who gets to answer questions.
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My guess is all involved parties that are still able to. Do I win?
 
"Chicago Approach, Cessna three-two-Bravo, Student Pilot, Landing O'Hare with information Whiskey."
 
roncachamp said:
Well, you're not under oath.
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I can't declare an emergency simply because I'm in a hurry and want priority clearance. I'm not under oath but I'm sure if I do that FAA will stop by and say "hi."
 
"N12345 possible pilot deviation, advise you call XYZ approach after landing."

"Ah...but N12345 is a student pilot."
 
I don't understand why any private pilot would want to say they are a student pilot. I understand that talking to ATC can be intimidating when you're not used to them. It takes a lot of practice getting comfortable talking in the system. In the meantime, you just do like so many have already suggested, you say whatever you need to say, however it is handy. Right now, I'm pretty good with understanding and responding but, I will not hesitate to use my two favorite words as often as necessary, Say Again?.

BTW, one thing that speeded up my understanding and use of phraseology was listening to Live ATC. I commute long distances to work and have the app on my iPhone. I put in a busy airport such as JFK and when a controller gave instructions, I'd repeat them and wait to see what the pilot said to see if I was in the right ballpark. It takes practice.
 
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My instructor who taught me to fly some 32 years ago told me to listen and then talk like a professional--Since then 5000 hours later, I have never had a "problem" with ATC-- some of the people I hear up there must be permanent student pilots :mad2:
 
\__[Ô]__/;1084785 said:
I know the AIM recommends student pilots identify themselves as such when contacting ATC. I'm wondering what people think about private pilots who are rusty on radio skill saying "student pilot" on initial contact. I heard someone do this recently and it surprised me.

It seems the best plan would be for the pilot to get more training in radio skills, but failing that... is using the "student pilot" call a good idea or bad idea? Are there any unintended consequences to doing that?
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I used it at my last run at a tower, but I think it just made them think I wanted to do touch&go's. Nothing a quick request can't fix.

Sometimes it helps, they will talk a little slower and won't use some of the more esoteric terms.

I'm also still a student, if you're really unsure and rusty it might behoove you to fly with someone who *is* familiar.
 
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When ever I felt insecure about communications I would just wear my portable comm and listen to tower for an hour or two while walking to get my exercise. It really helps as you start to internalize everything.

I don't fly out of a Class C but I live right under A class C space so I am always within radio distance. My brother and I share the comm and we both do this. It is also fun on days when you can't go fly but you want to feel connected to aviation.
 
MachFly said:
I can't declare an emergency simply because I'm in a hurry and want priority clearance. I'm not under oath but I'm sure if I do that FAA will stop by and say "hi."
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Declaring an emergency gets priority handling, saying you're a student pilot does not.
 
MAKG1 said:
Huh? SOME medical certificates are combined with student pilot certificates, if you ask for that when you apply. Mine just says "MEDICAL CERTIFICATE SECOND CLASS" with nothing about student pilots on it. The obverse has a list of regulations on it, instead of student pilot endorsements. My last one did have a student pilot certificate (and it was third class) because I was a student pilot then.
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My bad. Mine is combined 3rd and student. I'm on the 5yr plan too.
 
Michele said:
I don't understand why any private pilot would want to say they are a student pilot. I understand that talking to ATC can be intimidating when you're not used to them. It takes a lot of practice getting comfortable talking in the system. In the meantime, you just do like so many have already suggested, you say whatever you need to say, however it is handy. Right now, I'm pretty good with understanding and responding but, I will not hesitate to use my two favorite words as often as necessary, Say Again?.

BTW, one thing that speeded up my understanding and use of phraseology was listening to Live ATC. I commute long distances to work and have the app on my iPhone. I put in a busy airport such as JFK and when a controller gave instructions, I'd repeat them and wait to see what the pilot said to see if I was in the right ballpark. It takes practice.
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When I was a student pilot, I wasn't comfortable talking on the radio at first, so I bought a scanner so I could listen to ATC, and it helped a lot. Of course nowadays one can hear it on the Internet, as you point out.
 
All this talk of being rusty at radio work reminds me of a time when I was transitioning SFO's surface area, and I lost my train of thought in the middle of a transmission. I was quite proud of myself for having the presence of mind to release the push to talk switch after the first "uh," so that SFO tower could get some work done while I was figuring out what I needed to say.
 
SkyHog said:
I wasn't aware that students couldn't fly at night. I also wasn't aware that ATC could demand to see your cert.

Learn something new everyday
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Students can fly at night with a logbook endorsement.
 
Palmpilot said:
All this talk of being rusty at radio work reminds me of a time when I was transitioning SFO's surface area, and I lost my train of thought in the middle of a transmission. I was quite proud of myself for having the presence of mind to release the push to talk switch after the first "uh," so that SFO tower could get some work done while I was figuring out what I needed to say.
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"Stand by" is convenient when that happens, too. In a lot of other situations as well. ;)
 
\__[Ô]__/;1084785 said:
I know the AIM recommends student pilots identify themselves as such when contacting ATC. I'm wondering what people think about private pilots who are rusty on radio skill saying "student pilot" on initial contact. I heard someone do this recently and it surprised me.

It seems the best plan would be for the pilot to get more training in radio skills, but failing that... is using the "student pilot" call a good idea or bad idea? Are there any unintended consequences to doing that?
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No unintended consequences, however, if you are so unsure of your abilities that you feel you need to identify yourself as a 'student pilot' when you are not, you should turn in your certificate.
 
Palmpilot said:
All this talk of being rusty at radio work reminds me of a time when I was transitioning SFO's surface area, and I lost my train of thought in the middle of a transmission. I was quite proud of myself for having the presence of mind to release the push to talk switch after the first "uh," so that SFO tower could get some work done while I was figuring out what I needed to say.
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I've told em "hang on, having a brain fart", the consequence was 3 people keyed up and laughed.
 
rcpilot said:
I used it at my last run at a tower, but I think it just made them think I wanted to do touch&go's. Nothing a quick request can't fix.

Sometimes it helps, they will talk a little slower and won't use some of the more esoteric terms.

I'm also still a student, if you're really unsure and rusty it might behoove you to fly with someone who *is* familiar.
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I just tell them "I'm old and stupid, could you slow that down a touch?" If I can't find an airport and don't want to use an approach to find it, I just tell them "Unfamiliar, how about a vector?" There is no need to fear ATC.
 
SkyHog said:
I wasn't aware that students couldn't fly at night. I also wasn't aware that ATC could demand to see your cert.

Learn something new everyday
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Yeah, you just hold it in front of the scanner on your nav/com and hit the PTT. :rofl:
 
SkyHog said:
You seem to be inferring that it is against the rules to tell ATC you are a student pilot. I can't find anything that says you cannot do that, or even shouldn't do that.
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\__[Ô]__/;1085845 said:
I couldn't find anything banning or discouraging the practice either.
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Do you really think the FAR's need to say "1.1 No lying allowed?" C'mon - The government is big enough already. Don't feed the monster by making asinine assumptions.
 
Henning said:
I've told em "hang on, having a brain fart", the consequence was 3 people keyed up and laughed.
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On SFO tower frequency, there sometimes isn't time for that much verbiage!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Do you really think the FAR's need to say "1.1 No lying allowed?" C'mon - The government is big enough already. Don't feed the monster by making asinine assumptions.
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Given all the obvious stuff they say I wouldn't be surprised. However I see your point.
 
MachFly said:
Given all the obvious stuff they say I wouldn't be surprised. However I see your point.
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There's a difference between "That's so obvious a student pilot could figure it out" and "that's so obvious a three-year-old could figure it out." If the latter has to be the standard, the FAR/AIM would be MUCH thicker.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
There's a difference between "That's so obvious a student pilot could figure it out" and "that's so obvious a three-year-old could figure it out." If the latter has to be the standard, the FAR/AIM would be MUCH thicker.
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I hate to argue about this because I agree with you, but I don't think "obvious" will hold up in court.
 
MachFly said:
I hate to argue about this because I agree with you, but I don't think "obvious" will hold up in court.
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Naah, I'm sure they have some other legalese phrase that, when boiled down, means "obvious" and does hold up in court. :rofl:
 
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