principals or just let it go Question 1

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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I have 2 of these. The is the first.

Had a hailstorm 3 weeks ago. The hail was the size of that little girl on small wonder that was secretly a robot. So lots of roof damage.

Ins. company cuts me a check that could buy me my own robot.

Now Roofing company comes over and says yatta yatta, we can do this and we will forgive a portion that would be near or equal to your deductible. It is worded in such a way that it doesn't go against the way the Texas law is written. Lets just say it is a loophole that really saves me 4k out of pocket.

NOW..........

I want a roof. I don't want to pocket money or anything else, I have wanted my roof replaced for going on 5 years and they are going to replace it with a better roof at no charge to me. I should just be happy with that.

There is significant damage to my gazebo ($800), fence ($1600), and A/C units ($500).
The guy says we will take are of all of that. I says "I got a fence guy already and I can handle the gazebo, you just focus on the roof"

He says "Well, we will need $800 from the fence estimate in order to forgive the deductible so instead of my out of pocket being zero (Waiving 4k), it is 800. Fine..

BUT WAIT... Where did he come up with the number $800? He hasn't seen the roof, priced the materials, or labor or anything. But somehow, he knows he needs $800.

Again, I don't care about the money but for someone to be standing in my kitchen ans hear me say "Nah, I got these other items and suddenly know this specific dollar amount w/o pricing anything tells me this is all horse****.

It would make sense if he started pricing materials and said "We went $800 over what we estimated" but he didn't.

I am not out to make a profit but I start to wonder if I just let them do it and get over it or tell them I don't like how they are doing business and have someone quote me a price for the repairs based on what is needed versus quoting me a price based on the check that the insurance company has written me.

I told the insurance company, I will give them back the money I don't spend if it comes in under. I am not out to scam anyone. However, I suddenly don't trust this roofing company. They were referred to me by my father. They did a fantastic job on his roof. So I trust they will do good work but I feel like they are making up numbers and that bothers me a bit.

Do I just shut up and get over it?
 
Do you really want to deal with someone with shady ethics?
 
Get 2 other quotes for the replacement and choose the guy who won't say anything to get your business.
 
You don't like it the situation . .go with your gut, loose the sketchy outfit.
 
weilke said:
Do you really want to deal with someone with shady ethics?
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That's the crux of it.
He will likely do good work and solve the problem I have but It I get the feeling that these guys whole business is looking at insurance checks and pricing their job based on that versus the actual cost of the job.

I probably should just move along and get the new roof from them because it costs me nothing but my gut says this company may do a good job but they are stealing money from the insurance company.
 
My understanding is that you can do whatever you want with the money. The insurance company gave you what they thought a roof would cost. If you want to spend it on booze and broads, that's your business.

Personally, I'd look for a roofer who has been around for a while and actually knows how to roof a house well. It's one of those businesses that attract a lot of ... let's just say "less-than-wonderful" operators. I'd look for a family outfit with a generation or two of good references behind them.

Rich
 
Spec a class 4 impact resistant roof or better. Get estimates. Measure or estimate the number of squares yourself and see if estimates are close to correct on material. Check refs (okay if they give you a bad ref they are dumb. Still check). Select best bid, not necessarily low bid.
 
Find a roofer who is a member of NTRCA (North Texas Roofing Contractors Association). They have a (legitimate) code of ethics.
 
Don't know Texas law, but in Alabama the insurance company is responsible for paying for the loss. You can use the money however you want. Mistake number one is telling anyone how much the check is for, or what your deductible is. Insurance pays what they believe is value of the loss, contractor charges the cost of the repair. Call another roofer, when he asks about what the insurance paid, tell him you don't have any and you are paying for it yourself. You could tell the first guy that if he wants the job, you will pay xxxx, ball in his court.
 
Agree with the suggestion to get multiple bids and check references. Regardless of where you land on your moral conundrum, it may get you a better product at a lower price.

If you decide you're comfortable with the ole roll-the-deductible-into-the-quote trick, you could subtly suggest that your favorite contactor after getting your bids.

Im in construction management, and my boss always says "nothing beats quality like a low bid", and typically in our world of 7-8 digit subcontracts, he's 100% right, so I can imagine same is true in residential world.
 
The most important thing is that the materials and workmanship are of a high quality. I have seen a great disparity of workmanship from one contractor vs. another.
I might be inclined to go with the guys you are discussing as you say they did a great job on your father's house. Construction is one hard business.
 
After sleeping on this, I am going to hit the brakes. He quoted the job by looking at the insurance adjuster's estimated not by pricing the actual job. That seems weird.

I am going to call them and tell them I am getting 2 more estimates and explain why I am doing so. Of course his first question when he came to my house was "Where is the insurance paperwork?" He also tried to meet the adjuster at the house.

This reminds me of how my Dentist charges outrageous fees on things so he can get top dollar out of insurance companies.


Quick side question for anyone that does this sort of thing. $16k for a single story 5k sqft roof seem in the right ballpark?
 
Did you tell the insurance company your roof had already reached the end of it's economic life, and to please write a greatly depreciated claim check? Probably not, so strictly speaking, ethics are already out the window.

Go with the guy your father recommended. You know you'll get a good roof, and then rationalize the moral dilemma of getting a better roof than the one you had that cost you zip.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's the crux of it.
He will likely do good work and solve the problem I have but It I get the feeling that these guys whole business is looking at insurance checks and pricing their job based on that versus the actual cost of the job.
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Maybe it's just the cost of the job.

I got an estimate for my roof a year ago and decided not to do it at the time. This february we had a tornado that took out the neighbors barn and pelted my roof bad enough with hail that the insurance had to buy me a new one. The insurance estimate came out within $200 of what the contractor had given me last year. Its just so many 'squares' of material, so many linear feet of roof vent and an a standard amount of labor to remove and replace.

I probably should just move along and get the new roof from them because it costs me nothing but my gut says this company may do a good job but they are stealing money from the insurance company.
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I wouldn't. Ask around for two more roofing contractors, dont tell them what the insurance gave you and get other quotes. Make sure the others are not 'hail damage specialists' but local businesses that have been around for a while. I dont know why you believe that the guy would do a good job. He is trying to bribe you to get your work, that makes him by definition dishonest. Also, the insurance estimate is for the most basic setup, if he is able to under-bid the insurance, you got to wonder what corner he has to cut to get there.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Did you tell the insurance company your roof had already reached the end of it's economic life, and to please write a greatly depreciated claim check? Probably not, so strictly speaking, ethics are already out the window.

Go with the guy your father recommended. You know you'll get a good roof, and then rationalize the moral dilemma of getting a better roof than the one you had that cost you zip.
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It didn't reach the end of its economic life. God decided it was time.
He sends these massive ice balls every year. This was the first year the damage was enough to warrant replacement.

hail.jpg
 
Why have you wanted the roof replaced for 5 years?
 
Storm chaser company?
Find a reputable local roofer. Find same for a/c, fence, etc.
 
You don't owe them an explanation for anything if you decide to go elsewhere, or even a phone call. Too many choices to second guess yourself, sounds like you've also seen a couple red flags already. I would forget these guys and call three more companies as suggested earlier, get references, CHECK THEM, go with whomever you feel most comfortable. If roof is damaged to the point of leaking then I wouldn't screw around too long, you'll create new problems.
 
Me, I'd pocket the insurance money, tell the wife I'm going on a business trip (Vegas), she says but you're retired, and I say well it's something I can't talk about honey, you know those times when the Air Force sent me places for various times? (I really went to Vegas he he) and I couldn't tell you what for? She says "oh, ok". Easy peasy.

Any money leftover, buy ya an AOA or two, one for de plane, another for the car, why not start a trend?

The roof? Well you know those blue tarps they sell at Home Depot and Lowes, and come in various sizes? They last for at least a year or so. Just saying.
 
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Oh, and the AC, if it's just dents that don't affect operation, forget about it and pocket the money.
 
Just to play devil's advocate here, since everyone else seems to be trashing the roofer,
consider this:
The roofer is trying to give you a good deal on a package price. You are trying to take the good parts of the package and eliminating the items that allow him to make a profit.

I had a client once that needed a lot of work. I told him if he would pay a fixed amount, I would throw in some extra stuff for free. He said how about if he just takes the free stuff (for free!). Guess what I told him.
 
PaulS said:
Oh, and the AC, if it's just dents that don't affect operation, forget about it and pocket the money.
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'Pocket' as in put it away somewhere and earmark it for the eventual replacement of the unit. They have a limited lifespan and wear out eventually, its nice to have the insurance company chip in some money for the day it can't be economically fixed.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Why have you wanted the roof replaced for 5 years?
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We get these hell storms every year and they beat the crap out of the roof but it's never been enough to Warrant replacement I think there's a certain percentage that has to be damaged before they will do the replacement so on the back side of my house there are lots of sporadic unsightly spots. I've often thought of going up myself and replacing them. But I do not belong on ladders or roofs
 
So I guess I'm just a novice at this. I spoke to a friend and he said this is how it works any company does the same thing it's just a game find someone who's got good references and just let them play the game with the insurance company and don't worry about it.
 
I've never had any insurance claim on a house before so this is my first exposure to any of this so I guess whatever the insurance company in the roofing company do this is just how it goes and not my business I guess as long as I get a good roof. He said it's not my problem if the roofing company is trying to screw the insurance company my only concern is making sure I get a quality roof
 
The way I understand insurance is that they are paying you for your loss. You can choose to spend all the money or none if it. However, in my experience, the insurance company holds back a little until you provide a receipt. The only thing that would be unethical is if you didn't make repairs, then made another claim after the next hailstorm. But they would probably ask you at that time for the previous receipts.
 
That's correct they are paying a portion up front and a portion after the work is done
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I've never had any insurance claim on a house before so this is my first exposure to any of this so I guess whatever the insurance company in the roofing company do this is just how it goes and not my business I guess as long as I get a good roof. He said it's not my problem if the roofing company is trying to screw the insurance company my only concern is making sure I get a quality roof
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I missed the part where the roofer is trying to screw the insurance company. Didn't the Ins Co. already pay you what they thought you deserved? How are they hurting if he charges less for a roof than they estimated?

edited to fix a mistake.
 
Get the cheapest job and pocket the rest. There will be another hail storm and another insurance check in another couple of years, why waste a good roof job?

I don't think it's got anything to do with principles, it's life....you shop for the best deal for you and if the first guy doesn't like it, oh well. it won't be the first job he didn't get and it won't be the last.
 
RJM62 said:
.....The insurance company gave you what they thought a roof would cost. If you want to spend it on booze and broads, that's your business.....
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Honestly this is solid advice. I mean, you heard it on the internet so it has to be valid. (Sorry Mrs. 6er).
 
JOhnH said:
Just to play devil's advocate here, since everyone else seems to be trashing the roofer,
consider this:
The roofer is trying to give you a good deal on a package price. You are trying to take the good parts of the package and eliminating the items that allow him to make a profit.

I had a client once that needed a lot of work. I told him if he would pay a fixed amount, I would throw in some extra stuff for free. He said how about if he just takes the free stuff (for free!). Guess what I told him.
Click to expand...

You may be correct, but Bryan said this guy saying all this stuff and hasn't even looked at the roof, sounds very suspect to me. I've dealt with claims before and those that get paid first have always resulted in going back to the insurance company because it was too low.
 
PaulS said:
You may be correct, but Bryan said this guy saying all this stuff and hasn't even looked at the roof, sounds very suspect to me. I've dealt with claims before and those that get paid first have always resulted in going back to the insurance company because it was too low.
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He said that would likely happen.
 
I just don't like when things don't feel right.

Here is an example. Insurance guy says "Were giving you a $780 check for the gazebo damage"
I told him I only paid $500 for it and truly the canvas top is all that is damaged and it is $68 to replace the canvas.

His response was "Once I walk away from your house, that is none of my concern" Seemed weird. The insurance company is voluntarily over paying for stuff and the roofing company knows it. I asked the insurance company, If I replace the canopy, do I pay the difference back to them. He says "No, that's your money"

It just seems weird. I can pocket money which I really don't think is mine or I can give it to the roofing company and I really don't think it is theirs either.


Its holes in canvas and they are going to pay out more than I paid for the whole thing.
Something somewhere isn't right. That's all I know.

gazebo.jpg
 
Mike Smith said:
when he asks about what the insurance paid, tell him you don't have any and you are paying for it yourself.
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So you need to lie to the roofer to get the truth from him? Where are the ethics in that?

PaulS said:
You may be correct, but Bryan said this guy saying all this stuff and hasn't even looked at the roof, sounds very suspect to me.
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In defense of the roofer: Bryan doesn't live in a custom mcmansion. I think he lives in a nice tract house. Most likely one of the 4 or 5 floor plans available from the builder for that tract. Does the roofer really need a ladder to quote the same job he's already seen. It's not like the hail was localized to his roof.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I just don't like when things don't feel right.

Here is an example. Insurance guy says "Were giving you a $780 check for the gazebo damage"
I told him I only paid $500 for it and truly the canvas top is all that is damaged and it is $68 to replace the canvas.

His response was "Once I walk away from your house, that is none of my concern" Seemed weird. The insurance company is voluntarily over paying for stuff and the roofing company knows it. I asked the insurance company, If I replace the canopy, do I pay the difference back to them. He says "No, that's your money"

It just seems weird. I can pocket money which I really don't think is mine or I can give it to the roofing company and I really don't think it is theirs either.


Its holes in canvas and they are going to pay out more than I paid for the whole thing.
Something somewhere isn't right. That's all I know.

View attachment 53012
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Take it and hush up! Think of it as, inflation, yeah that's it.
 
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