Pressured to fly

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Mtns2Skies

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Mtns2Skies
I'll try to make this as short and sweet as possible.

A few weeks ago my dad (non-pilot) asked me to take his co-worker and son on a flight with me. I happily obliged and took a 182 to my dad could come along as well. I cancelled a couple times which pro-longed this flight out a couple weeks so my Dad was getting antsy.

The next time I decided to try the winds were gusting all morning but had finally died down by the early afternoon when I was planning on flying. There hadn't been any turbulence pireps for several hours, so I hoped it was calm. I decided we'd fly a trip around the pattern and decide how the weather was and either land immediately or, if it was nice, continue the sight-seeing flight as planned.

Well I was on the upwind and it was very consistent light chop - not a problem for me, but to those new to aviation it's not fun. I decided we'd turn back and land immediately so not to make the passengers sick. My dad suggested that he was okay and to keep going.... had it been anyone else I would have said no we're landing, but something about my dad telling me had more oomph. I told him it wasnt going to get better but he still insisted we keep going - maybe because of his frustration with the flight being cancelled earlier. So we continued maybe 10 miles south of the airport at which point the weather turned to sustained moderate which was terribly unpleasant. I turned back to the airport and I made a good landing.

While I felt the flight was perfectly safe... and the co-worker's son loved the flight.

However my dad's colleague I'm afraid I scared away from aviation permanently and I feel very responsible for that :mad2: I've never had a situation like this before.

I shouldnt have continued, and had it been anyone else I wouldn't have. - Also if I felt the flight to be at all unsafe I wouldn't have continued regardless of who asked to continue.

For some reason when he asked I felt more pressure than normal to continue the flight...

I learned to stick with my gut regardless of who asks, I'm just glad this time it was in safety.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I'll try to make this as short and sweet as possible.

A few weeks ago my dad (non-pilot) asked me to take his co-worker and son on a flight with me. I happily obliged and took a 182 to my dad could come along as well. I cancelled a couple times which pro-longed this flight out a couple weeks so my Dad was getting antsy.

The next time I decided to try the winds were gusting all morning but had finally died down by the early afternoon when I was planning on flying. There hadn't been any turbulence pireps for several hours, so I hoped it was calm. I decided we'd fly a trip around the pattern and decide how the weather was and either land immediately or, if it was nice, continue the sight-seeing flight as planned.

Well I was on the upwind and it was very consistent light chop - not a problem for me, but to those new to aviation it's not fun. I decided we'd turn back and land immediately so not to make the passengers sick. My dad suggested that he was okay and to keep going.... had it been anyone else I would have said no we're landing, but something about my dad telling me had more oomph. I told him it wasnt going to get better but he still insisted we keep going - maybe because of his frustration with the flight being cancelled earlier. So we continued maybe 10 miles south of the airport at which point the weather turned to sustained moderate which was terribly unpleasant. I turned back to the airport and I made a good landing.

While I felt the flight was perfectly safe... and the co-worker's son loved the flight.

However my dad's colleague I'm afraid I scared away from aviation permanently and I feel very responsible for that :mad2: I've never had a situation like this before.

I shouldnt have continued, and had it been anyone else I wouldn't have. - Also if I felt the flight to be at all unsafe I wouldn't have continued regardless of who asked to continue.

For some reason when he asked I felt more pressure than normal to continue the flight...

I learned to stick with my gut regardless of who asks, I'm just glad this time it was in safety.
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Had a similar situation with a friend of mine. Same deal, except when he landed, he proceeded to tell everyone what a crazy pilot and how scary the whole scenario was.

Really made me look bad.
 
I'll only say this once. Only the PIC can make the decision to fly or not. It is no one else's responsibility.

Now, all that said, the flight was clearly safe, just less than pleasant. Were you going by yourself you probably wouldn't have scrubbed. That, and for all you know the first bump would have been too much for your recalcitrant passenger. You flew and got everybody back in one piece. Good work for one day.
 
You're not going to be able to please everyone. If 2 of the 3 passengers did enjoy it. You still did good. The other it could have been completely smooth and he still might have not enjoyed it. Nothing to stress over. You can not make everyone enjoy aviation as much as you do.
 
I usually wait for optimum conditions for non pilot passenger flights. You could scare them off completely if you don't.
 
It's always better to give people a smooth ride , most first time passengers are easily shaken up,even in small bumps. Some people will never enjoy flying.
 
frfly172 said:
It's always better to give people a smooth ride , most first time passengers are easily shaken up,even in small bumps. Some people will never enjoy flying.
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This. When I take people up I don't like to go up when winds are more than 15kts. Some people freak out more than others. I'd rather take them up on a nice, calm day.
 
When I read the title I thought this was going to be much worse, glad I was wrong.

As for some chop, meh, I'd guess your other pax is probably more disgruntled at your dad than you.
 
Only pax I ever had barf who wasn't a pilot (hang on, I'll get to that) was in light chop. I vowed never to do that to anyone again. She hadn't told me that she gets car-sick even just riding in the back seat, however... or I'd have just said "Let's not do this." She amazingly caught it all in a sweatshirt... poor girl. Amazingly, to this day, she still says it was fun.

The other barfer was a fellow pilot who wanted to go up with me for pattern work, and he started looking green around the gills and said so, and he self-deployed a bag... and filled it. Then he said, "My fault. I'm on antibiotics for this stupid cold I self-grounded for, can't shake and all I've had to eat today was toast and coffee, and one of those damned pills." LOL... I just landed and taxiied in and we went and got him a proper lunch. He said he felt MUCH better after barfing. :) :) :)

He also said it was an interesting lesson on why he had self-grounded. Ha. Go figure. ;)
 
I never want to frighten anyone in an airplane. I let my passengers know before we even get in the plane, that if at any time they feel uneasy, I'm happy to turn around and land as soon as practical. That being said, I have quite a few friends and acquaintances that I have took up on sporty days and they had no problem. I'm sure to prep them if I suspect it may be unusually bumpy or there's a significant crosswind to deal with so as not to surprise them when the runway is over there and the nose is pointed somewhere else. :0)
 
People are extremely responsive to the pilot's confidence. That flight was nothing to be concerned about.

If you act like you just cheated death on landing and apologize profusely (even for something so minor), then you will scare them away forever. If you land and explain, with confidence, that you were thinking about their comfort and decided to discontinue because you wanted to make the experience as enjoyable as it can be, they will be accepting and very grateful. This will lead to them being more relaxed around you and aviation itself.

Trust me. I learned the hard way.
 
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
 
txflyer said:
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
Click to expand...
I hand them to the pax before I even start the engine. I tell them if they get uncomfortable or want to go back let me know. Hopefully they tell me before they use it. However, id rather them not frantically search my flight bag when its needed

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
 
My rule is the least comfortable passenger decides with PIC able to over rule for safety issues.
 
txflyer said:
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
Click to expand...
If they stop talking I get the sick sack ready. If they are quiet I know something is wrong.
 
Every time I fly Delta, I grab all the sick bags and keep them for my little plane. Never expect to need them but they may come in handy one day. For what I pay for a delta ticket these days, I don't feel guilty taking as many as I need
 
tehmightypirate said:
Antibiotics don't work on viruses like the cold.
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Duh. He had some upper respiratory thing I guess.

mulligan said:
Every time I fly Delta, I grab all the sick bags and keep them for my little plane. Never expect to need them but they may come in handy one day. For what I pay for a delta ticket these days, I don't feel guilty taking as many as I need
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Airline bags suck. Get the big plastic ones. You'll thank me later.

Reason: They can put their entire face in the big plastic one.
 
Took my dad flying a couple months ago. Didnt relized how bumpy it was until we were airborn. I got tired of fighting the airplane and trying to smooth out the flight and turned around. After a the landing he said that was fun let go again soon. I was floored.
 
txflyer said:
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
Click to expand...

I do full disclosure.

But I also ask:
"do you get car sick?"
"have you been in a small plane before?"
"Are you aware of who you are about to get in a plane with?"
"Why in God's name do you think this is a good idea"
"Can you smell alcohol on my breath?"

I don't do a major briefing but I do tell them where the sacks are and let them know about all the little nuances ahead of time.
It might be bumpy until we are at X height, If yo hear beeping, it is the AP disconnect, if at any point you are uncomfortable, there are many places I can land, please let me know.

I really don't want anyone to have a bad time and I cater to the most timid aboard.
 
We used to audition aerial camera operators by taking them on a flight because, previous to that, too many were hired and subsequently quit because it made them sick. Just the act of looking down through the camera viewfinder makes some people sick, not to mention the fact that many had never been in a small airplane.

It was how I got my start in flying. You're a private pilot? Good, you won't get sick or scared. You're hired!
 
This story reminds me of a flight I took with my wife Christmas day 2014.....


She has family down in KMMU (Morristown, NJ) and wanted to see her family on Christmas day...I actually had to work on Xmas eve so driving was not much of an option, we would either fly, or if wx was bad, we would not be able to make the trip.

On Christmas day it was severe clear and unseasonably warm, however, there was an AIRMET for moderate chop the whole ride down with surface winds 10G30...

Knowing I could safely complete the flight I let my better half make the go/no go decision. I warned her that there would be turbulence the whole way down and although we would be safe we would be bumping all the way down. She said she never gets motion sick and it wouldn't be a problem for her, so off we went. I'll never forget the look she gave me as we were crossing over the CT/NY border. I thanked God I had that barf bag in the back....

Luckily she still flies with me but I don't think she will ever forget that flight
 
txflyer said:
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
Click to expand...

SixPapaCharlie said:
I do full disclosure.

But I also ask:
"do you get car sick?"
"have you been in a small plane before?"
"Are you aware of who you are about to get in a plane with?"
"Why in God's name do you think this is a good idea"
"Can you smell alcohol on my breath?"

I don't do a major briefing but I do tell them where the sacks are and let them know about all the little nuances ahead of time.
It might be bumpy until we are at X height, If yo hear beeping, it is the AP disconnect, if at any point you are uncomfortable, there are many places I can land, please let me know.

I really don't want anyone to have a bad time and I cater to the most timid aboard.
Click to expand...

My PP CFI encouraged me to have "the talk" with first timers.

It doesn't have to be a big deal: "Since you've never been in a small plane before, it's all going to be new to you. And since it's new to you, neither one of us knows how you'll react. If you start feeling uncomfortable, let me know. If you feel like you need some fresh air, here are the vents and how they work. If you do start feeling queasy, it usually doesn't get better, so here is where and how to deal with it. We won't be more than a couple minutes away from the airport, and I can get us back down as soon as possible. Enjoy it, and don't worry."

Also, make sure to let them know about the landing. This will be the first time they've seen the ground coming up at them through the windscreen instead of a side window, and I've seen first-timers want to grab something.

I think the biggest deal is to make them comfortable enough to say something. Too many people will get quiet and not want to seem like they'll look bad if they speak up.

In any case, the least comfortable passenger deserves the best treatment.
 
I had a flight like this with my girlfriend. Except it was a 300 mile flight in a v-tail to spend the weekend with her parents. I never understood how turbulence could be so bad that it would constitute as severe, but about 15 minutes after taking off we found it. I literally had no control of the airplane for 1-3 second intervals I just kept the plane below maneuvering speed by climbing and did what I could to avoid abrupt changes. Instead of turning around I decided to climb and luckily found moderate turbulence with a huge taiwind at 12.5. With the power nearly pulled to idle we were making a 250 knot ground speed. The arrival was windy and turbulent too and 15 minutes after landing a dust storm came in. Had I been 15 minutes late I probably would have had to divert 100 miles away but I was prepared for that. The flight wasn't necessarily unsafe, but it was the furthest thing from comfortable.
She still will fly with me, but she doesn't like travelling that way anymore. That one flight gets brought up more times then I like to think about it. I take her flying on select perfect days now. She'll fly in IMC but any turbulence and she gets upset I took her.
To the OP, if you want to make things right take the guy on a cool trip on a perfect day. Show him not every flight is like that and maybe change his opinion!
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
People are extremely responsive to the pilot's confidence. That flight was nothing to be concerned about.

If you act like you just cheated death on landing and apologize profusely (even for something so minor), then you will scare them away forever. If you land and explain, with confidence, that you were thinking about their comfort and decided to discontinue because you wanted to make the experience as enjoyable as it can be, they will be accepting and very grateful. This will lead to them being more relaxed around you and aviation itself.

Trust me. I learned the hard way.
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I'm don't think apologizing for turbulence is a issue, I've done it a few times, of course I wasn't profuse about it, just a hey, sorry for the turbulence, nothing I could do about it, or I thought I turned the turbulence button off, sorry




txflyer said:
This brings up a dillema I've struggle with about telling newb's about the barf bags, or should we not say anything?

I've read the point that by just telling passengers where the barf bags are and what to do in case they're sick can put it in their mind and possibly make things worse.

Do you brief passengers about sick saks or just keep a close eye on them?
Click to expand...

NEVER DO THAT

It plants the seed in their brain about barf.

Best way I've done it was to show them the seat belts, here's the door latch, here's the air vent, ...oh yeah, if you want to store anything feel free to use this side pocket and feel free to move any stuff in there, yeah looks like it's just a couple pens, a sick sack and a few old fuel receipts, anywho, feel free to keep your tablet or whatever in there if you like.
 
Non-pilots almost ALWAYS think the pilot can or should be able to do something to smooth out turbulence.
 
I've always found that the borderline days are the toughest ones to call. We all know which days are absolutely unflyable. And, even a child can recognize a perfect day. But, the devil is in those days where you stand on the ramp and think: "maybe it's okay", or "we'll go have a look". Those aren't automatically unsafe days for flying, but they can often be interesting!

I think this is analogous to many other activities in life. I also do a bit of backcountry skiing, and have always remembered that statistics show that most avalanche victims are killed during conditions of moderate risk… sane people automatically avoid the days of High and Extreme danger, but many reasonable people venture out on days when it is "moderately" risky.

I typically set my limits lower with non-pilot passengers, as it sounds like most of you do. The one passenger who never questions my go/no-go decision is my wife, though I can see the mild look of anxiety on her face without asking the questions in some instances… for example, the wind kicked up real strong while I was preflighting a C-152 today. I had already situated her in the airplane, and was 90% sure I was canceling the flight by the time I got in to sit down next to her to discuss it. At this point we were still tied down, and the aircraft was violently shaking against the tie-down chains. I looked at her and said: "Well, we're still tied down with the engine off, and we're already experiencing moderate turbulence… I guess we'll go feed your horse now". She's a trooper, but I definitely saw a much more relaxed expression on her face once I told her we weren't flying.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
N65584? N25430?

My girlfriend is training for her PPL in those with Tony.

I usually fly N735CF

Welcome to POA I probably have seen you at Rmfs before!
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N25430. Tony actually taxied out in the 180hp 172 as I was doing my preflight yesterday, but he quickly returned after the tower was reporting winds in excess of 40 knots… Tony is a really good guy!
 
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I took my neighbor's 12 year old daughter up. It was early morning and CAVU. Unfortunately, it was unusually choppy below 3500 ft. She still loved it. I apologized about the bumpiness, but she didn't mind. Bottom line, it's your call but it depends on the passenger, too. No way to know how someone is going to react to the bumpiness.
 
I got to see ColoradoKevin and his lovely bride today at Rocky Mountain Flight School at KBJC. Turns out we met last year!
He's a fine addition to the Colorado POA team.

I flew around in the C182 earlier with Tony Moreno. The pattern was really full - felt like KAPA! We were #4 or #5 for takeoff and they were using both 30L and 30R for touch and go practice.

It was clearly starting to pick up when I left, but was very nice flying all morning.
 
G-Man said:
I got to see ColoradoKevin and his lovely bride today at Rocky Mountain Flight School at KBJC. Turns out we met last year!
He's a fine addition to the Colorado POA team.

I flew around in the C182 earlier with Tony Moreno. The pattern was really full - felt like KAPA! We were #4 or #5 for takeoff and they were using both 30L and 30R for touch and go practice.

It was clearly starting to pick up when I left, but was very nice flying all morning.
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Thanks for the warm welcome, and it was good to see you again, too! The pattern was still packed today when we departed… it wasn't one of my finer flights around the patch (reference my other post), but it wasn't bad once we got up north. Strangely, I saw very little traffic in the area of Longmont or Boulder today.
 
Yeah, pressure, especially from someone who's close to you (and you respect) is a hell of a thing.

Props (no pun intended) to you for recognizing that it wasn't the best situation. Just remember hindsight is 20/20. Take it as a lesson learned.

Thanks for sharing.
 
I've found that being able to set expectations by briefing the passenger as we go so that nothing looks like a surprise has an amazingly calming effect on passengers. Including ... if this landing doesn't look good we're going to go around, and come back for another landing.

Once people know what's going on and you seem to have it all in control its a non-issue. Remember most non-pilot passengers are following your queue, if you're calm and collected they'll see you as sky king. If you're a wreck they will perceive it as a rough flight
 
denverpilot said:
Airline bags suck. Get the big plastic ones. You'll thank me later.

Reason: They can put their entire face in the big plastic one.
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That.

I keep 3 or 4 (1) gallon zip lock bags in the back pocket of the copilot's seat. Thankfully no one has ever had to use one.
 
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