Preflights optional I guess...

jspilot

jspilot

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jspilot
This Saturday I flew up to Barnes airport KBAF, in Massachuessets. A very good flight and a great airport with a terrific restaurant that was busy with a steady stream of planes coming and going. Anyway, after returning to the plane after eating lunch, I began my preflight to return back home. I was doing an inspection of the lights when a line worker at the FBO comes over. He asks, hey did you check the pitot tube? I gave he a puzzled kind of look and he says, I'm just joking-- you are the only pilot today to actually do a pre-flight before getting back into their plane. So we got to talking and he said he is shocked by how few pilots actually do a pre-flight after parking on the ramp. I told him I see this a lot too and I don't get it. I said, it's worth the 10-15 minutes it may take to do a quick pre-flight to know that the major things are working, check the oil, check the control surfaces, check the lights, and hop in! He agreed but he said almost no one does even a basic pre-flight.

So I'm honestly at a loss as to why people don't bother to check the plane after its been parked on a ramp. I told him that my CFI told me that, whenever you leave the plane and it's out of your sight you should do a pre-flight to make sure everything is working because you can't possibly know what happened to the plane while you were gone( another plane could have clipped the wing, it could have been damaged in some way.)

So why don't more people spend the time to pre-flight? As the line guy and I both joked about, "It's your butt sitting up there at 4000ft."
 
Ten or fifteen minutes seems like much more time than is needed, but after a pancake breakfast I do walk around the plane checking for damage, free movement of flight control surfaces, wheel pants on straight, no chocks under wheels.

I do not sump the fuel again unless I was refueled -- should I?
 
For a quick stop.. I walk around the plane, that's it. It was flying just fine a few minutes ago and unless a tug hit it or I can't leave the parking space because I forgot the chocks, I don't expect any problems.

You don't need to sump every time. I sump for first flight of the day.
 
dell30rb said:
For a quick stop.. I walk around the plane, that's it. It was flying just fine a few minutes ago...
Click to expand...

Could not one use the same logic...

"It was flying fine when I tucked her away in the hangar yesterday..."

I mean, not much can go wrong with a sitting plane, other than maybe a flat tire.

If one is looking carefully for cracked flap tracks or loose inspection cover screws, or whatever, I just don't follow the logic that they're less likely to be present after a short stop than a long one.

So I preflight every time, regardless of the length of the stop.

But That's Just Me! (Tm)
 
Detailed inspection first flight of the day. Oil, gas , pitot and a walk around there after. If I fuel, I wait 5 min before checking the fuel.
 
Here is what I came back to after the fbo 'topped me off', Saturday (they didn't come close to topping it off) and then they put someone else's name on my ticket (how or why, we don't know yet).
They are having some problems, and I am preflighting more closely.
 

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FastEddieB said:
Could not one use the same logic...

"It was flying fine when I tucked her away in the hangar yesterday..."
Click to expand...

I have heard this given as a rationale for having a hangar.

My preflight after a pancake breakfast is a bit abbreviated. Do I have oil in the engine, fuel in the tanks and did someone run a tug into my stab ?
 
What is that? Looks like a hockey puck.
 
FastEddieB said:
Could not one use the same logic...

"It was flying fine when I tucked her away in the hangar yesterday..."

I mean, not much can go wrong with a sitting plane, other than maybe a flat tire.

If one is looking carefully for cracked flap tracks or loose inspection cover screws, or whatever, I just don't follow the logic that they're less likely to be present after a short stop than a long one.

So I preflight every time, regardless of the length of the stop.

But That's Just Me! (Tm)
Click to expand...

I'll add to that, I will check fuel and oil depending on the situation. I always do a quick walk around and at least mentally evaluate fuel/oil. If the line guys are supposed to have topped it off, I will remove the fuel caps and verify.

But I don't see the need to do the detailed pre-flight every time/
 
I do an abbreviated pre-flight as well, if I get fuel, I always check the caps, check the oil, walk around and go. With the 425, the fuel caps are behind a door, similar to an oil access door and I did find them unsecured on one fuel stop. :eek: But, that's why I looked! :D
 
Almost every time I get in the plane after pre-flight I get a little panic attack: did I remember to recap the tanks after verifying fuel?

I think that comes from one of my PPL training flights when ATC was vectoring a guy underneath us for an emergency landing. He had fuel streaming from one of his tanks.
 
woodchucker said:
Almost every time I get in the plane after pre-flight I get a little panic attack: did I remember to recap the tanks after verifying fuel?

I think that comes from one of my PPL training flights when ATC was vectoring a guy underneath us for an emergency landing. He had fuel streaming from one of his tanks.
Click to expand...

Did he make it?
 
Everybody does a pre-flight, even if it's only to look at the plane as you walk up to it. In other words, there are as many definitions of pre-flight as there are people performing it. Even a pre-flight "by the book" is performed differently in it's depth and completeness. What satisfies me may not satisfy you. Let's talk about it.:rolleyes2:
 
woodchucker said:
I think that comes from one of my PPL training flights when ATC was vectoring a guy underneath us for an emergency landing. He had fuel streaming from one of his tanks.
Click to expand...

I had an interesting experience with that yesterday. Got into some turbulence and the filled to the brim aux tanks were streaming some fuel out of the vent. The vent is below the wing, so all I could see was the vapor trail.
 
I have an OCD / Superstitious behavior that I have not decided to correct.
I walk to the tail and make sure the castle nuts on the elevator and elevator trim still have their kotter pins in place.

I abbreviate things here and there but that behavior and a couple others are part of my OCD. It also forces me to walk around the plane
 
I always do a quick walk around after I land. If I take fuel I always verify that I received it, check the caps, finally I sump it. Having worked in FBO's I have seen my far share of line personnel that fail to pay attention to what they are doing. Like any other segments of the population, most that work line are professionals but there are a few knuckle heads in the bunch too.
 
I'm the only guy that flies and fuels my plane. My pre-flights are very basic unless the plane just came out of a maintenance, and then I use a fine tooth comb and assume I'm a test pilot for the first flight.
 
NoHeat said:
Ten or fifteen minutes seems like much more time than is needed, but after a pancake breakfast I do walk around the plane checking for damage, free movement of flight control surfaces, wheel pants on straight, no chocks under wheels.

I do not sump the fuel again unless I was refueled -- should I?
Click to expand...

:cornut:
 
Stewartb said:
I'm the only guy that flies and fuels my plane. My pre-flights are very basic unless the plane just came out of a maintenance, and then I use a fine tooth comb and assume I'm a test pilot for the first flight.
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You have locking gas caps on that thing?

You can't know you're the only one to touch it while you're parked in transient parking off somewhere having fun.

For instance, one of the Warriors had the usual chalk marking on the nose wheel indicating the fuel truck has been by since the last time the aircraft moved. Looking in the tanks, the left one was EMPTY, and the right nearly so. Maybe 30 minutes of fuel. Maybe.

It turns out this aircraft has had recent problems with fuel theft. Looks like I found another example.
 
ki4lzk said:
I always do a quick walk around after I land. If I take fuel I always verify that I received it, check the caps, finally I sump it. Having worked in FBO's I have seen my far share of line personnel that fail to pay attention to what they are doing. Like any other segments of the population, most that work line are professionals but there are a few knuckle heads in the bunch too.
Click to expand...

The line guy always tells me that he pumped all the water out into the first plane he filled up that day, so I have nothing to worry about :rofl:
 
MAKG1 said:
You have locking gas caps on that thing?

You can't know you're the only one to touch it while you're parked in transient parking off somewhere having fun.

For instance, one of the Warriors had the usual chalk marking on the nose wheel indicating the fuel truck has been by since the last time the aircraft moved. Looking in the tanks, the left one was EMPTY, and the right nearly so. Maybe 30 minutes of fuel. Maybe.

It turns out this aircraft has had recent problems with fuel theft. Looks like I found another example.
Click to expand...

Even with digital fuel qty instruments and a fuel flow monitor I always double check my fuel levels with my custom made dip stick. I run with minimum fuel so I always add fuel before a flight and I know exactly what's in there before I start the plane.
 
How many of you check the oil after a 10-30 min stop, (pee, water, drop off etc)? If you do, what do you do if it reads at or near the minimum oil level? Do you add oil or wait to see if more is draining into the sump?

I ask because I normally don't check the oil level unless the plane has sat for an hour or 2, minimum. I may not even pull the dip stick since it had oil pressure when I landed, and there isn't an oily mess on or under the plane.

I will take a look at tires, wings, check fuel level, control surfaces, etc but usually never mess with the oil.

Am I and engine out waiting to happen????
 
For the hundred dollar Hamburg. On return to the airplane do a quick walk around while removing the chalks.
 
I like the pre-flight and almost always do the same thing no matter how long it's been since the plane has flown (it's hangared) or if it was a quick $100 burger flight. I fly the same plane every time...and have for over 2 years now...so it's pretty quick for me. But, I feel good when I'm putting my seatbelt on knowing I did it. I abbreviated a few times and both times left the wheel chocks on the nosewheel and had to shut it down with passengers to move them. Not a big deal, but embarassing. So, now I just eat the extra 5 minutes and do a check her out.

As others mentioned, if I don't get fuel on a short hop then I don't sump. But I always pull the dipstick (easy to get to on my Cherokee) and check the tires. I also make sure all the control surfaces move fine and bolts/pins are in the right places. Fuel caps...ALWAYS.
 
ChemGuy said:
How many of you check the oil after a 10-30 min stop, (pee, water, drop off etc)? If you do, what do you do if it reads at or near the minimum oil level? Do you add oil or wait to see if more is draining into the sump?
Click to expand...

Oil draining into the pan happens pretty quick with a warm engine. You shouldn't need to worry about that at all.
 
jspilot said:
I told him I see this a lot too and I don't get it. I said, it's worth the 10-15 minutes it may take to do a quick pre-flight to know that the major things are working, check the oil, check the control surfaces, check the lights, and hop in!
Click to expand...

Do you really do a light check on a day flight $100 hamburger run after landing?

Unit74 said:
Detailed inspection first flight of the day. Oil, gas , pitot and a walk around there after. If I fuel, I wait 5 min before checking the fuel.
Click to expand...

If you're looking for contaminants, it might take a little longer than 5 minutes.
 
I have had a few comments when doing a preflight at a gas or meal stop. I don't do the same kind of preflight as I do at the beginning of the day, but evidently, I am much more thorough than most people, or I would not have heard the comments.

Sorry, but my butt will be in that plane. I'm not to anxious to put my sorry butt in jeopardy. Call me silly, foolhardy, geeky, or whatever, but I want to be comfortable that I am climbing into an airworthy aircraft thanks very much.
 
danhagan said:
Do you really do a light check on a day flight $100 hamburger run after landing?



If you're looking for contaminants, it might take a little longer than 5 minutes.
Click to expand...


I have read that you should wait 20 minutes after refueling before checking for water in the fuel.
 
I do the same thing

Everytime, except for anything less than an hour stop I wont check the gas collater.

We have a great restaurant on the field that I eat at 3x per week. 1 mile from my office. I take my son often, we chuckle at people that wander out after a meal and fire up the engine without any concern. Half of them ask at the desk if there tanks were filled and never even check....God's grace I guess.

The top of my pre-flight form says in capital letters

YOU WILL DIE IN THIS PLANE TODAY UNLESS YOU CHECK THIS.

I have my 14yo convinced that preflight is a no-go item. YMMV.
 
I learned not to get lazy on a recent mid day stop. Had the FBO fill up my plane with the truck and then I went to sump the fuel. Drained the cup and pulled out the step ladder to dump it back in (high wing Cessna)...freakin lineman didn't put my left wing gas cap back on!

Would not have ended well had I just hopped in and went on my merry way.
 
Here's that anecdote I promised.

As background, T-Tails are notoriously difficult to preflight, often requiring a ladder and therefore often overlooked.

I'm luck in that the CG/balance point of my Sky Arrow lets me gently lower the tail to the ground on preflight, where it stays of its own accord:

15844628879_dfb65e10ac_z.jpg


One time during a preflight, I noticed a slight "catch" as I went to move the elevator through its full range. I first thought it was just the sidestick hitting against the headset I often leave next to it. But after moving the headset, it still "caught" just a little.

Look very closely and you may see why:

16029998262_c9f4a0ff4f_c.jpg


And here it is close up:

16030670735_8bbaab9bab_z.jpg


Now, I caught this after pulling the plane out from the hangar. Unless someone snuck into my hangar with a small screwdriver to play a prank on me, it must have been roughly the same on my last landing.

Though the screw is small and if forced the composite would probably yield to force, having the elevator suddenly "catch" even just a little as I was trying to flare could have been hugely distracting - if not worse.

This is just an anecdote for its own sake. But who's to say that screw could not have vibrated out to that same position after a 30 minute flight for pancakes?

Again, the logic of "it was only a short stop" still escapes me. If I've been out of the plane, I'll take time to do a preflight - its just that simple.
 
dell30rb said:
For a quick stop.. I walk around the plane, that's it. It was flying just fine a few minutes ago and unless a tug hit it or I can't leave the parking space because I forgot the chocks, I don't expect any problems.
Click to expand...
Many (most?) of the things I look for on a pre-flight are most likely to show-up during use. A cotter pin on the elevator is not likely to break off sitting at the tie-down or in the hanger, but it might wear in flight. Likewise wear on the wires, pulleys, bolts, and string that hold the thing together. It might not have fallen off during that last flight, but it might have gotten to the point where previously invisible damage is now visible or dangerous. I'd rather find that out on the ground.
 
jspilot said:
This Saturday I flew up to Barnes airport KBAF, in Massachuessets. A very good flight and a great airport with a terrific restaurant that was busy with a steady stream of planes coming and going. Anyway, after returning to the plane after eating lunch, I began my preflight to return back home. I was doing an inspection of the lights when a line worker at the FBO comes over. He asks, hey did you check the pitot tube? I gave he a puzzled kind of look and he says, I'm just joking-- you are the only pilot today to actually do a pre-flight before getting back into their plane. So we got to talking and he said he is shocked by how few pilots actually do a pre-flight after parking on the ramp. I told him I see this a lot too and I don't get it. I said, it's worth the 10-15 minutes it may take to do a quick pre-flight to know that the major things are working, check the oil, check the control surfaces, check the lights, and hop in! He agreed but he said almost no one does even a basic pre-flight.

So I'm honestly at a loss as to why people don't bother to check the plane after its been parked on a ramp. I told him that my CFI told me that, whenever you leave the plane and it's out of your sight you should do a pre-flight to make sure everything is working because you can't possibly know what happened to the plane while you were gone( another plane could have clipped the wing, it could have been damaged in some way.)

So why don't more people spend the time to pre-flight? As the line guy and I both joked about, "It's your butt sitting up there at 4000ft."
Click to expand...

How many of those people did a run up? I was at a recent fly in and I too was the only one to do a pre flight and even a run up. I don't know, I'm doing a run up any time after the engine gets turned off..Just me.
 
simtech said:
How many of those people did a run up? I was at a recent fly in and I too was the only one to do a pre flight and even a run up. I don't know, I'm doing a run up any time after the engine gets turned off..Just me.
Click to expand...

Ken M said:
I always do a run-around check. It's sorta like a preflight and run up at the same time. Saves a lot of time and I get toast.
Click to expand...

.....this is your fault 6PC.....
 
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danhagan said:
Do you really do a light check on a day flight $100 hamburger run after landing?



If you're looking for contaminants, it might take a little longer than 5 minutes.
Click to expand...

I do check the lights for any flight, because a cracked light on the tip of the wing could happen pretty easy and would be a sign that a plane hit my plane while sitting on the ramp. It does not belong in the same list as control surfaces and oil but I'd rather be safe on all fronts.
 
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