Practicality of Owning an Airplane

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It was always a dream of mine to own an airplane and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning and flying mine.

My practical side tells me that other than the fact that is is fun to own my airplane it really isn't financially practical to do so.

So, I am at a crossroads; Do I just sell it and hang onto the money for retirement or keep putting money into it and just enjoy it while I can.

I fly 50 - 75 hours a year, but I am older and health could be a factor at any point. I am also hopefully in the 10 year window for retirement, meaning less income.

My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.

Not really looking for advice on what I should do, but does this weigh on anyone else's mind and how did you find peace with your decision?
 
I'm faced with the same decision, though I'm a bit farther off from retirement. My biggest concern other than cost is maintenance hassles. I still work really hard, and don't like the idea of little and big things going wrong...facing tough decisions, setting up appointments, shuttling the plane when it needs maintenance, etc.

I realize some planes (172?) don't need much maintenance. I fly Cirrus, and at least at my FBO, there's always something wrong with every plane. They need constant care and feeding.

Still, ownership would rock! The pleasure of having my own plane to go wherever and whenever would be amazing.

Still in a quandary though.
 
Airplanes are not practical investments.
Motorcycles are not practical investments.
Fishing boats are not practical investments.
Sometimes, women are not practical investments (says the guy on his 3rd marriage :dunno:)
Lottery tickets and Vegas definitely are not practical investments.

But sometimes enjoyment takes a front seat to practical. All practical and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Myself, I will sacrifice in other areas of my life to keep flying - because flying has a much higher enjoyment value to me than a practical value. I work hard to make enough money to play with airplanes, that is where I choose to spend my money.

Yes, flying (and owning) costs money - more money than you can ever justify on paper. But so does any vacation anywhere - it's balance of dollars versus entertainment value. Only you can decide how much that entertainment is worth to you.
 
Unregistered said:
It was always a dream of mine to own an airplane and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning and flying mine.

My practical side tells me that other than the fact that is is fun to own my airplane it really isn't financially practical to do so.

So, I am at a crossroads; Do I just sell it and hang onto the money for retirement or keep putting money into it and just enjoy it while I can.

I fly 50 - 75 hours a year, but I am older and health could be a factor at any point. I am also hopefully in the 10 year window for retirement, meaning less income.

My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.

Not really looking for advice on what I should do, but does this weigh on anyone else's mind and how did you find peace with your decision?
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I'm nowhere close to retirement, but I often think about what I would do as an owner if life circumstances changed...i.e. one of us looses our job, have a kid, wife comes to her senses, etc. I have a 182 that I'm pretty happy with. I would probably take on a partner or two. That would give me some equity while reducing my monthly expenses.

Fact is, life is terminal, so enjoy it while you can. If it comes down to eating or flying, then the decision is easy...go on a diet.
 
I think it weighs on most of us at some point. Planes are expensive to own without a doubt, and there's always the question of whether it's worth the money or not.

One question would be whether or not you'd benefit downgrading to something smaller and cheaper. Of course, selling a plane and buying another are both annoying.
 
Engineers are like Jews, we overanalyze everything. I'm an engineer who is half Jewish from my heritage so I overanalyze things to the Nth degree. I wanted a plane since I sold my Citabria when I was 27 and bought a house. That was almost 30 years ago, and I've been wanting a plane constantly. Got married, had kids, worked my ass off, the typical family stuff.

Once I had my investments in order, and my kids were taken care of into college I finally let it rip and bought another plane. I used to rent once in a while, and I would get to fly some of my buddies planes around even though I didn't always keep up my med and BFR current, but I just wanted my own plane.

It's completely impractical. That's one of the first things I decided and the costs can't be defrayed even thought I used it for business about 40%. Still doesn't make much sense compared to comm air travel, or using a private car.

With age comes a change in priorities. The time v money equation which was tilted heavily in favor of money when I was 32 is tilting heavily in favor of time as I get closer to 60. Also, things that can be taken away so easily now seem to be important.

My wife has no interest in piloting, but she likes flying with me most times. My kids have little or no interest in aviation, and they think I'm kind of weird with my obsession about planes.

So, I buy them, and sell them, and fix, and fly, and fiddle, and all the overhead involved in Gen Aviation, and it's not a bad thing, cause otherwise I'd be making model trains, or collecting baseball cards, or something like that. I've stopped trying to justify it and now enjoy it for what it is.

Meshuganah.
 
I've flown for 56 years, have owned for more than 40 of them. Except for the first plane, an incredibly stupid 20-something move that I blame on youthful enthusiasm, the planes served a valuable business purposes and money hasn't been a factor.

Guys of the same age group tend to talk to each other about the same subjects, and my group has definitely reached the "what now, pards?" stage regarding a number of issues including our planes. We can all keep them and most can afford whatever we want, but we've all flown for many years and don't need more big-plane ego gratification and find that our actual needs are insufficient to consider anything else anyway.

One guy has always wanted to say he has a Lear type rating, so he bought a nice old 24 for Mooney money, poured enough fuel through it to get typed, and now flies it occasionally during its remaining couple of years before the Stage-II drop-dead date. I'm glad he did it, and (since I don't need any more type ratings) even gladder that I didn't.

We all know the game is in the fourth quarter with little chance for over-time, and that one-by-one we will all go to the sideline or be carried from the field. The good-book lists a number of subjects in the "a time for all things" chapter (Eccl. 3). It is read at many funerals, including one I attended on Saturday for a friend who was three days older than the Missus, and it leaves little doubt that our time for a lot of things is behind us.

Not a hell of a lot of fun to think about, but it's been a great ride. When to quit? Dunno. I have some of the same thoughts about golf as well, as the tee-shots that once easily cleared the creeks have become lay-up shots (some of which is from loss of distance, some because lay-ups were probably always smarter shots that I couldn't bring myself to make because I was a long hitter with a long hitter mentality who also carried a ball retriever in his bag).

I don't think the thoughts ever go away, and at some point a specific event or preponderance of evidence will trigger a change. The only real difference is whether the heading on the Barnstormer ad starts with "For Sale by Owner" or "Estate Sale."

Time will tell, but sometime this month we'll start the panel upgrade, then . . .
 
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Cost of plane: $XX,XXX
Yearly cost of ownership: $X,XXX
Plane sitting at tie down spot, full tanks, waiting to fly: PRICELESS

There's really not much more to say than that.
 
You need to understand that things considered priceless at some age are valued somewhat differently at others.

mattaxelrod said:
Cost of plane: $XX,XXX
Yearly cost of ownership: $X,XXX
Plane sitting at tie down spot, full tanks, waiting to fly: PRICELESS

There's really not much more to say than that.
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Something that I put into my mind to help drive my decisions is "If I died today, would there be anything I wish I'd done differently?" We all have mistakes, so I look at the big items. If the answer is "Yes I'd do it differently," then I figure out what to change. Flying is definitely on the list of things I'm glad I've done and glad I'm continuing to do it. A few other things that are good for conversation over beers, and a few others to just think about and smile.

I doubt if anyone will say on their deathbed "I wish I'd spent more time on the internet."
 
Unregistered said:
It was always a dream of mine to own an airplane and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning and flying mine.

My practical side tells me that other than the fact that is is fun to own my airplane it really isn't financially practical to do so.

So, I am at a crossroads; Do I just sell it and hang onto the money for retirement or keep putting money into it and just enjoy it while I can.

I fly 50 - 75 hours a year, but I am older and health could be a factor at any point. I am also hopefully in the 10 year window for retirement, meaning less income.

My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.

Not really looking for advice on what I should do, but does this weigh on anyone else's mind and how did you find peace with your decision?
Click to expand...

I owned my Cherokee for a little over 18 years. I loved having it. Maybe I shouldn't have made so made radio upgrades to it, but I had a ball flying it and maintaining it (all but one annual was owner-assisted).

I sold the plane Auguest 2012, and haven't missed it all that much. There were personal events in my life that kind of sucked the enjoyment out of flying, plus all the TSA/DHS ka-rap at KBED (and the NAS in general) sucked even more enjoyment out of flying.

I knew I'd be dumping the airplane before 2020, because there was no way I was going to waste money putting that ADS-B crap in the plane. So it became of a question of when to sell, not if.
 
Unregistered said:
It was always a dream of mine to own an airplane and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning and flying mine.

My practical side tells me that other than the fact that is is fun to own my airplane it really isn't financially practical to do so.

So, I am at a crossroads; Do I just sell it and hang onto the money for retirement or keep putting money into it and just enjoy it while I can.

I fly 50 - 75 hours a year, but I am older and health could be a factor at any point. I am also hopefully in the 10 year window for retirement, meaning less income.

My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.

Not really looking for advice on what I should do, but does this weigh on anyone else's mind and how did you find peace with your decision?
Click to expand...

I agree with all you say. I'm just kind of winging it. Being 2 to 10 years out from retirement, I plan to keep mine until retirement unless medical issues come up first. Then it'll have to go if it's too big a drain on what resources we have. The longer I can continue building the retirement fund, the longer I can keep the plane after retirement. Once we get to this age, planning is not so much in our control. Enjoy every minute.
 
My airplane is more practical as the sailboat I used to own. I can use it all year round (in theory) and I have a hangar where I can store the camper that I don't use.
 
If you need practicality out of aviation don't fly. If you need practicality out of an airplane don't own. It isn't about practicality. Not one bit. Not unless you are an aviation professional or the sole owner of a business that involves lots of short haul travel.
 
That's certainly true for the way you do it. It can be much different for others.

steingar said:
If you need practicality out of aviation don't fly. If you need practicality out of an airplane don't own. It isn't about practicality. Not one bit. Not unless you are an aviation professional or the sole owner of a business that involves lots of short haul travel.
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Owning an airplane is like your first girlfriend(or boyfriend...or as one of my girlfriends used to say "significant other"). It is wonderful while it lasts, terrible when it ends, and the memories are always cherished.
 
Just before retirement I made a decision to sell my old twin,moved onto owning a new two seat,gas miserly airplane.very happy with that decision.
 
douglas393 said:
Owning an airplane is like your first girlfriend(or boyfriend...or as one of my girlfriends used to say "significant other"). It is wonderful while it lasts, terrible when it ends, and the memories are always cherished.
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tweet of the day:yesnod:
 
I decided that flying 50 hours a year for fun would not justify owning a plane, so I flew 180 hours a year for even more fun.
 
I'm retired and my wife is 2 months to 10 years from retirement. Depends on what day you ask her. I don't have a boat, motor home or any other expensive hobby. I have airplanes. My wife and I both love flying. I will probably have 300 hours by the end of year, plus whatever she flys. They are expensive. But when we can't fly anymore I'm sure the memory's will still put smiles on our faces and a glow in our hearts from all of the people met and experiences we've had flying. That's when our airplanes will head west.
 
douglas393 said:
Owning an airplane is like your first girlfriend(or boyfriend...or as one of my girlfriends used to say "significant other"). It is wonderful while it lasts, terrible when it ends, and the memories are always cherished.
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And you can't believe how much money you spent.
 
Practicality of owning an airplane?

Mother in Law wants to go visit my BIL in Phoenix - Southwest wants $185 a ticket - so I suggest to the wife . . . 'wanna go visit your brother on Sat for lunch? We can drop off your mother." She's away 5 more days than if we waited to buy a tickeet . . . . is that practical? Whats that worth?

Mortgage banker calls me up one Wednesday morning at 0830 - "hey, I got tickets in the luxury box this afternoon for the Red Sox game, I know you are fan . . .can you make it?" Cancel my appts for the day, run home, change clothes, run out to the airplane and at 1207p I'm being dropped off at the ballpark by the FBO. Could I have done that with the airlines? Not a chance. . . . earliest flight I could have caught would have been 1030 or so - 1145a arrival at SFO [or OAK if there was a convenient departure - prob not] 30 min to the BART station - MAYBE a close second - assuming there was space - it would have $200 one way and $200 the other way - same as the cost of gas. Was the airplane practical that day?

Friend calls up Friday aftn at 4p - 'hey, got some sim time in the F18 down here at Miramar - got a PPR for you if you ca n get here by 8 - landing NKX at 715 - practical? Not at all.

Friends call and say, hey, the Squadron needs to contribute to the air show - wanna come down to Oceana and flight some AM 'O' rides - we'll put ya up and you can watch the airshow from the ramp . . . . the last F14 demo. Practical? Photos below are from that experience . . . can you say you parked next to an F-117?

Neighbor calls up and tells me that there is a huge rocket of water shooting up from a sprinkler head at our vacation house in South Carolina - can you turn the water off I ask. Sure he says, and he turns off the main valve. Run down there in the next few days, wheels up 6am, land 11am. Hardware store by 1215p - valve fixed by 2p - I shower and get to the airport at 230p home by 715p. Practical? The airlines would have required landing an hour away at the same time, last minute ticket - rental car - etc etc etc. Calling someone to fix it would have taken me hours to find someone - its a small town. . . . with contractors that would have taken us for a ride even being 'local.' Prob saved money in the long run - plus - the insurance company likes a check in now and again -

when my Father in law was alive he had a medical emergency - I got my wife to the hospital by 11am the next morning from 800nm away - could not do that a) using the airlines or b) driving. When it was a false alarm - we were home that evening. Practical?

The list goes on and on but if we did not have an airplane sitting in a hangar waiting for us - none of those would have happened. Is it practical? You tell me. It depends what you use it for -
 

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I'm now retired for 2 years which happens to be exactly how long it has been since I finished my RV10 kit. It's not the path for most or even many but it was right for me.

The RV10 turned out to be one of the most rewarding 'projects' I've ever undertaken. At 5 years long and somewhere well over $100K it better be. But the plan was to replace the Maule with something that was faster, more efficient and most important, affordable in retirement. The ability to perform up to 100% of the maintenance is the key.

As soon as the kit completion expenses stopped, I retired.

It's working so far.
 
Good timing! Glad it worked out.

Bill Watson said:
I'm now retired for 2 years which happens to be exactly how long it has been since I finished my RV10 kit. It's not the path for most or even many but it was right for me.

The RV10 turned out to be one of the most rewarding 'projects' I've ever undertaken. At 5 years long and somewhere well over $100K it better be. But the plan was to replace the Maule with something that was faster, more efficient and most important, affordable in retirement. The ability to perform up to 100% of the maintenance is the key.

As soon as the kit completion expenses stopped, I retired.

It's working so far.
Click to expand...
 
So, OP, you have a lot of different points of view presented here. But what matters is what YOUR point of view is. I guess one of the things it would boil down to for me is how the numbers crunch. I mean, if you're looking at eating dog food for 20 years in order to pencil another 100 hours in the logbook, that's a decidedly different "is it worth it" question than if you're basically set but just trying to make sure your house is in order. I usually approach these kinds of questions by checking my gut reaction. Go to controller.com or TAP and type up an ad. Hit submit. If you think "whew", you have your answer, just as sure as if you think "WHAT AM I DOING???"

My last airplane was sold for a lot of reasons, but basically because that airplane didn't make sense anymore for me at that time. That doesn't mean I'll never own again (although my cash from the sale has been eaten by institutions of higher education), only that a chapter has ended and a new one begun.
 
Bottom line: it's not.
My annual this year consisted of 54 hours of work at $78. A few small parts. But the big discovery was after annual my boots Stayed UP! We had replaced a pressure pump (500hrs); investigated, the feed vs dump valve for the boots was full of crud.

Did the best we could to clean is out, re-riveted it back together, as the $2,495.00 replacement is NA currently. In the spring we'll cap the boots and send to an overhauler....after ice season. I need that thing NOW for the Pacific NW trip in 10 days.....

sigh.

But there is no other ship in which I can rent the ski condo, put both daughters in it (and last year, M-I-L too), and reverse the process at week's end.

A year ago we moved younger daughter's apartment from Macomb Il to Willimantic, CT in one pass (couldn't take full fuel, though).

So I will continue, until I can't.
 
bbchien said:
Bottom line: it's not.
My annual this year consisted of 54 hours of work at $78. A few small parts. But the big discovery was after annual my boots Stayed UP! We had replaced a pressure pump (500hrs); investigated, the feed vs dump valve for the boots was full of crud.

Did the best we could to clean is out, re-riveted it back together, as the $2,495.00 replacement is NA currently. In the spring we'll cap the boots and send to an overhauler....after ice season. I need that thing NOW for the Pacific NW trip in 10 days.....

sigh.

But there is no other ship in which I can rent the ski condo, put both daughters in it (and last year, M-I-L too), and reverse the process at week's end.

A year ago we moved younger daughter's apartment from Macomb Il to Willimantic, CT in one pass (couldn't take full fuel, though).

So I will continue, until I can't.
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I remember a few years ago, I think it was at Windwood, you said you'd been contemplating a downgrade and ultimately decided to keep the Seneca for at least another set of engines. It sounds like you made the right call, as you'd otherwise be there wishing you had the capability.
 
I think so. $102,000 in engines, props, and accessories later.....
I think so....
I think so....
 
bbchien said:
I think so. $102,000 in engines, props, and accessories later.....
I think so....
I think so....
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You fool. You counted.

I thought you were smarter than that.
 
docmirror said:
Engineers are like Jews, we overanalyze everything. I'm an engineer who is half Jewish from my heritage so I overanalyze things to the Nth degree. I wanted a plane since I sold my Citabria when I was 27 and bought a house. That was almost 30 years ago, and I've been wanting a plane constantly. Got married, had kids, worked my ass off, the typical family stuff.

Once I had my investments in order, and my kids were taken care of into college I finally let it rip and bought another plane. I used to rent once in a while, and I would get to fly some of my buddies planes around even though I didn't always keep up my med and BFR current, but I just wanted my own plane.

It's completely impractical. That's one of the first things I decided and the costs can't be defrayed even thought I used it for business about 40%. Still doesn't make much sense compared to comm air travel, or using a private car.

With age comes a change in priorities. The time v money equation which was tilted heavily in favor of money when I was 32 is tilting heavily in favor of time as I get closer to 60. Also, things that can be taken away so easily now seem to be important.

My wife has no interest in piloting, but she likes flying with me most times. My kids have little or no interest in aviation, and they think I'm kind of weird with my obsession about planes.

So, I buy them, and sell them, and fix, and fly, and fiddle, and all the overhead involved in Gen Aviation, and it's not a bad thing, cause otherwise I'd be making model trains, or collecting baseball cards, or something like that. I've stopped trying to justify it and now enjoy it for what it is.

Meshuganah.
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I'm an engineer as well but I've learned to avoid analyzing any situation where a greater understanding doesn't improve things for me. Perhaps that's because I'm not Jewish?:D

Bottom line in the analysis of airplane ownership for the OP and anyone else in the same position should be if you sold the plane what would you do with the money that would improve your quality of life over what you have with the airplane. IOW, it's not about the money, it's about what else you could use the money for to provide a greater benefit.
 
When your time is up, where will your hard earned money go? You can't take it with you, so you'd better know now. Once you know, then you can live. No one defines living but you. Own a plane, feed the poor, burn it in your backyard, but don't waste precious time agonizing over what to do with it. Why? Because again, time is precious and you can't take it with you.
 
I think that depends on whether the flying money represents a sacrifice of other important priorities. If the only difference will be the amount left in trust to grandkids or given to charity, it really doesn't matter because those who get it will never know how much was there before they got it anyway.

valittu said:
When your time is up, where will your hard earned money go? You can't take it with you, so you'd better know now. Once you know, then you can live. No one defines living but you. Own a plane, feed the poor, burn it in your backyard, but don't waste precious time agonizing over what to do with it. Why? Because again, time is precious and you can't take it with you.
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Yup, above post says it all.

No, owning an airplane is not practical. But "practical" rarely makes life worth living for the bold and curious human within us. It wasn't practical to dump tea in a harbor in Boston back in the day. And it wasn't practical to get in an outrigger and paddle away from the main land thousands of years ago to search for the end of the earth. People have an inner drive that strips "practical" of any practical value at times. There is more to us than what we see in front of us at very specific and salient times in our lives. Practical has different definitions to the same person at different points in their lives too.

As far as making ownership more affordable, there are many options. Partnerships, aircraft choice, etc can make a huge contribution to reducing fixed costs. It's what I've done myself and I could not be happier with aircraft ownership. But then again, I'm a triple offender. I keep a wife, a boat and an airplane, so what do I know about practicality!
 
gismo said:
I'm an engineer as well but I've learned to avoid analyzing any situation where a greater understanding doesn't improve things for me. Perhaps that's because I'm not Jewish?:D

Bottom line in the analysis of airplane ownership for the OP and anyone else in the same position should be if you sold the plane what would you do with the money that would improve your quality of life over what you have with the airplane. IOW, it's not about the money, it's about what else you could use the money for to provide a greater benefit.
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yeah, that was the meshugana in me. I studied Buddhism in college with all the ascetic stuff. It didn't make sense to me for the future. When one gets into the 50s, there is a certain 'what is next?' philosophy involved. I'd like to chalk it up to some big examination of my life or times, but really I just want a plane, and I bought one, knowing it was money not well spent.

Hack, maybe my daughter will fly it when I'm gone.
 
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