Practicality of Owning an Airplane

OP here,

I must say I am simply amazed at both the number of responses and the way you all poured your heart into your comments. I think I have struck onto something many of you have battled with at some point, and your thoughts on the subject have given me the desire to stay the course with my aircraft. At least for another year.

Thank all of your for your thoughts and ideas.
 
We all have windows of opportunity to do different things.

Flying is just one thing in a wide list of en-devours that we are capable of doing for a relatively short period of time.

I quit football and sports, because that window closed. I quit thrill-seeking, womanizing, and bar-brawling because that window closed. I'll quit flying when that window closes too. :redface:
 
I love my airplane, and I wouldn't change a single thing about my journey with her. I fly around 200 hours a year, this year may be closer to 150 though. My airplane recently had some very unfortunate hangar rash so I have been borrowing airplanes here & there to get by... I've been flying the last couple weeks a TR182 (I own a n/a R182) and even though it's by the book a "better airplane" all it does it make me miss mine. This one has the original Cessna radios, which the owner seems to think the new paint & interior make up for.. my airplane has original paint & most original interior but good radios and avionics.. Why is this relevant.. because it's MINE. I picked it and it's everything I wanted. I don't fly that airplane, I wear it.

Last spring a friend of mine came and visited. He airlined in (pilot also) at around 12pm. By 2pm we were at the airport pulling the airplane out for a spontaneous trip to Vegas. Got back the following day and did some night flying, something renters here can't really do. Next day we got in and went to Santa Ana for a night because we could. In the 15 months of ownership I've done more $100 hamburgers than I can count. I've taken 3 checkrides in her, took my first passenger (bought it day after PPL), have been across the country and back, shot my first instrument approach, flown into KPHX for lunch (13mi from home, it takes much less time to drive!)... everything. For me it's worth ownership. It's worth the issues of mechanicals and even hangar rash. I wouldn't change a thing. Here's a picture from the KSNA trip, I'm on the right.

542661_10151301968861086_1131930348_n.jpg
 
The vast majority of single engine piston owners have their planes for fun. That's it. That's all. There is a tiny percentage of us that actually use this type of plane to earn income and they depend on the rest of us to keep the prices down and the airports open, so they can continue to do so.

Lots of people will rationalize all the trips to Grandma's and the ski trip with the kids, but in the end it's just for fun. All of it is an interesting ride. That's all it is. After each annual, you ask yourself, "Do I want to go on this ride again?"

For me, I answer based on-

1) Can I afford this?
2) Am I still having fun?

If the answer to either is no, I'm done.
 
bbchien said:
Overestimated again, I see....:goofy:
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I remember hearing some study on NPR that said men have a tendency to overestimate. ;)

wabower said:
I think that depends on whether the flying money represents a sacrifice of other important priorities. If the only difference will be the amount left in trust to grandkids or given to charity, it really doesn't matter because those who get it will never know how much was there before they got it anyway.
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As one of those grandkids (not for you, obviously, but other grandparents who planned to leave me something) I'd agree. My grandfather died when I was 2 and my grandmother led a very boring life for the some 23 years I knew her before she moved on from this world. Although I was never very close to her, one of the things that's always bugged me is how her final years lacked any quality and that she didn't get enjoyment out of life. Part of that was because she'd lost my grandfather, but I would've been happy to see her off doing things that made her happy.
 
Unregistered said:
So, I am at a crossroads; Do I just sell it and hang onto the money for retirement or keep putting money into it and just enjoy it while I can.

I fly 50 - 75 hours a year, but I am older and health could be a factor at any point. I am also hopefully in the 10 year window for retirement, meaning less income.

My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.
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I am probably butchering the quote and I don't know who to attribute it to: 'I spent most of my money on fast women and airplanes, the rest I just wasted'

I hope to die of old age a month after my wife and two months after I burned through my retirement funds. My kids will just have to pay for my cremation.

if you enjoy the plane, by all means keep it. You said that you are in the 10 year window to retirement, if you don't have anyone dependent on your income, an experimental may be a good way to reduce your operating cost.
 
weilke said:
if you enjoy the plane, by all means keep it. You said that you are in the 10 year window to retirement, if you don't have anyone dependent on your income, an experimental may be a good way to reduce your operating cost.
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This is what I found as well. I've gone EXP-AB, and I think I'll not go back to certificated except maybe a legacy 1940s LSA which I will treat more or less like a EXP-AB in terms of work and parts. Some people should not work on systems and should always use an A&P. Some folks can do limited work, and some can do just about anything. I can't recover a whole plane, but I can sure make a patch with the right materials, and I can do an engine jug repl, and I can install a prop, electronics, wiring, etc. Also, I'll be taking the wings off and storing it at my garage so that saves about $1600/year in just parking expense.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I love my airplane, and I wouldn't change a single thing about my journey with her. I fly around 200 hours a year, this year may be closer to 150 though. My airplane recently had some very unfortunate hangar rash so I have been borrowing airplanes here & there to get by... I've been flying the last couple weeks a TR182 (I own a n/a R182) and even though it's by the book a "better airplane" all it does it make me miss mine. This one has the original Cessna radios, which the owner seems to think the new paint & interior make up for.. my airplane has original paint & most original interior but good radios and avionics.. Why is this relevant.. because it's MINE. I picked it and it's everything I wanted. I don't fly that airplane, I wear it.

Last spring a friend of mine came and visited. He airlined in (pilot also) at around 12pm. By 2pm we were at the airport pulling the airplane out for a spontaneous trip to Vegas. Got back the following day and did some night flying, something renters here can't really do. Next day we got in and went to Santa Ana for a night because we could. In the 15 months of ownership I've done more $100 hamburgers than I can count. I've taken 3 checkrides in her, took my first passenger (bought it day after PPL), have been across the country and back, shot my first instrument approach, flown into KPHX for lunch (13mi from home, it takes much less time to drive!)... everything. For me it's worth ownership. It's worth the issues of mechanicals and even hangar rash. I wouldn't change a thing. Here's a picture from the KSNA trip, I'm on the right.

542661_10151301968861086_1131930348_n.jpg
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Which one is yours? :wink2:

This is a very personal question. In Alaska it made sense as a pleasant money waster. On an island in the middle of Lake Superior with no airstrip, less money to waste and a nice boat (which to us is much like a car) to feed, it doesn't.

Like others when I jump back in one day it will be experimental. See future 'for sale' post here.
 
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bbchien said:
But there is no other ship in which I can rent the ski condo, put both daughters in it (and last year, M-I-L too),
So I will continue, until I can't.
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Didn't need to load my former MIL as she had her own air vehicle.....made out of wood and straw.
 
I was going to take vacation Wednesday thru Friday next week. Had some things to do in Raleigh - many of which can't be moved easily. Yesterday I'm told I need to make an important presentation to a client on Wednesday in Atlanta with prep on Tuesday.
Soooo... Going to fly to Atlanta Tuesday, prep, meet with the client on Wednesday afternoon, then fly to Raleigh on Wednesday for dinner. None of this is possible without my little plane. Heck, the wait getting into ATL and through security will be longer than my flight from PDK to RDU. Plus my company is paying for the flight.
Practical? You betcha.
 
Have you considered bringing on a partner or starting a club. You keep the ownership of the plane, it gets used, and maybe at some point add a Light Sport or some other plane.
 
comanchepilot said:
Practicality of owning an airplane?

Mother in Law wants to go visit my BIL in Phoenix - Southwest wants $185 a ticket - so I suggest to the wife . . . 'wanna go visit your brother on Sat for lunch? We can drop off your mother." She's away 5 more days than if we waited to buy a tickeet . . . . is that practical? Whats that worth?

Mortgage banker calls me up one Wednesday morning at 0830 - "hey, I got tickets in the luxury box this afternoon for the Red Sox game, I know you are fan . . .can you make it?" Cancel my appts for the day, run home, change clothes, run out to the airplane and at 1207p I'm being dropped off at the ballpark by the FBO. Could I have done that with the airlines? Not a chance. . . . earliest flight I could have caught would have been 1030 or so - 1145a arrival at SFO [or OAK if there was a convenient departure - prob not] 30 min to the BART station - MAYBE a close second - assuming there was space - it would have $200 one way and $200 the other way - same as the cost of gas. Was the airplane practical that day?

Friend calls up Friday aftn at 4p - 'hey, got some sim time in the F18 down here at Miramar - got a PPR for you if you ca n get here by 8 - landing NKX at 715 - practical? Not at all.

Friends call and say, hey, the Squadron needs to contribute to the air show - wanna come down to Oceana and flight some AM 'O' rides - we'll put ya up and you can watch the airshow from the ramp . . . . the last F14 demo. Practical? Photos below are from that experience . . . can you say you parked next to an F-117?

Neighbor calls up and tells me that there is a huge rocket of water shooting up from a sprinkler head at our vacation house in South Carolina - can you turn the water off I ask. Sure he says, and he turns off the main valve. Run down there in the next few days, wheels up 6am, land 11am. Hardware store by 1215p - valve fixed by 2p - I shower and get to the airport at 230p home by 715p. Practical? The airlines would have required landing an hour away at the same time, last minute ticket - rental car - etc etc etc. Calling someone to fix it would have taken me hours to find someone - its a small town. . . . with contractors that would have taken us for a ride even being 'local.' Prob saved money in the long run - plus - the insurance company likes a check in now and again -

when my Father in law was alive he had a medical emergency - I got my wife to the hospital by 11am the next morning from 800nm away - could not do that a) using the airlines or b) driving. When it was a false alarm - we were home that evening. Practical?

The list goes on and on but if we did not have an airplane sitting in a hangar waiting for us - none of those would have happened. Is it practical? You tell me. It depends what you use it for -
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I got my partner down to see my father in law nearly every weekend while he was slowly dying of lung cancer. That was made possible only by the plane. Sure, it's not practical to own. But she was there for me when I needed her and she will be when I need her again; I won't give her up just because -at the moment- she's "just" for recreational flying that doesn't happen as much as it should....
 
I used to get my buddy out to see his ma about once a month. A day trip in the airplane was easy, in the car grueling and wound up being weekend trips. Now that he's not flying he sees her a couple times a year.
 
comanchepilot said:
Practicality of owning an airplane?

Mother in Law wants to go visit my BIL in Phoenix - Southwest wants $185 a ticket - so I suggest to the wife . . . 'wanna go visit your brother on Sat for lunch? We can drop off your mother." She's away 5 more days than if we waited to buy a tickeet . . . . is that practical? Whats that worth?

Mortgage banker calls me up one Wednesday morning at 0830 - "hey, I got tickets in the luxury box this afternoon for the Red Sox game, I know you are fan . . .can you make it?" Cancel my appts for the day, run home, change clothes, run out to the airplane and at 1207p I'm being dropped off at the ballpark by the FBO. Could I have done that with the airlines? Not a chance. . . . earliest flight I could have caught would have been 1030 or so - 1145a arrival at SFO [or OAK if there was a convenient departure - prob not] 30 min to the BART station - MAYBE a close second - assuming there was space - it would have $200 one way and $200 the other way - same as the cost of gas. Was the airplane practical that day?

Friend calls up Friday aftn at 4p - 'hey, got some sim time in the F18 down here at Miramar - got a PPR for you if you ca n get here by 8 - landing NKX at 715 - practical? Not at all.

Friends call and say, hey, the Squadron needs to contribute to the air show - wanna come down to Oceana and flight some AM 'O' rides - we'll put ya up and you can watch the airshow from the ramp . . . . the last F14 demo. Practical? Photos below are from that experience . . . can you say you parked next to an F-117?

Neighbor calls up and tells me that there is a huge rocket of water shooting up from a sprinkler head at our vacation house in South Carolina - can you turn the water off I ask. Sure he says, and he turns off the main valve. Run down there in the next few days, wheels up 6am, land 11am. Hardware store by 1215p - valve fixed by 2p - I shower and get to the airport at 230p home by 715p. Practical? The airlines would have required landing an hour away at the same time, last minute ticket - rental car - etc etc etc. Calling someone to fix it would have taken me hours to find someone - its a small town. . . . with contractors that would have taken us for a ride even being 'local.' Prob saved money in the long run - plus - the insurance company likes a check in now and again -

when my Father in law was alive he had a medical emergency - I got my wife to the hospital by 11am the next morning from 800nm away - could not do that a) using the airlines or b) driving. When it was a false alarm - we were home that evening. Practical?

The list goes on and on but if we did not have an airplane sitting in a hangar waiting for us - none of those would have happened. Is it practical? You tell me. It depends what you use it for -
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:yes:awesome, i'm in total agreement here. Priceless!
 
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Just wanted to say I loved reading this thread. I've played around with the thought of owning but you all have given me ammunition for when I take the plunge. When I can afford to take that plunge I'll do it for all the reasons in this thread- you can't put a price tag on happiness and time waits for no one.

To those who posted on this thread, thanks for reminding me I'm not alone in my thinking.
 
douglas393 said:
Owning an airplane is like your first girlfriend(or boyfriend...or as one of my girlfriends used to say "significant other"). It is wonderful while it lasts, terrible when it ends, and the memories are always cherished.
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:rofl:

I have to laugh at this one as in the spring I am scheduled to marry my first girlfriend, only took three years apart to realize how good we had it:lol:
 
I guess if I had not owned my two airplanes the last 11-12 years I might be $100k richer....less memories. But then again I might be dead. This plane could be the one thing that keeps me alive.

I love my grand daughter, sons and my plane/flying. I have a lot of fellow aviator buddies to argue with.:)

With a plane you hardly ever stand around feeling sorry for yourself.:)

My mothers hospice nurse told me once that people seldom regret what they did during their lives but they usually have great regrets of what they did not do at the end. So if you always wanted to go to Europe but didn't, or wanted an airplane but didn't, or wanted to play in a band but didn't...get cracking.

I paid cash as we went for both sons University degrees. One owns his business and home free and clear and the other son's got a great job paying his house off and employer is paying for his MBA. I've helped, funded both of them starting their own businesses.

I have two paid off homes and an airplane....I am going to enjoy the life god gives me as long as I can walk or be carried into an airplane by a safety pilot. I have no regrets except not meeting Kim Basdinger.
 
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The better question to ask yourself is why are you accepting the premise that your income will decrease in retirement? Personally, if I thought that, I couldn't justify owning a money trap like a plane or boat.


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denverpilot said:
Depends on how you earn it.
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Also depends on what you plan on doing in your retirement.

Personally I figured that'll be a great time to do some of the employment options I can't justify now but would want to do.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Also depends on what you plan on doing in your retirement.

Personally I figured that'll be a great time to do some of the employment options I can't justify now but would want to do.
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+1 just look at all the people who retire from industry and take up farming. Flying is dirt cheap compared to that.
 
denverpilot said:
Depends on how you earn it.


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Ted DuPuis said:
Also depends on what you plan on doing in your retirement.

Personally I figured that'll be a great time to do some of the employment options I can't justify now but would want to do.
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Okay, now I get it.
I was thinking along the lines of financial independence in retirement, where my money will sustain my lifestyle and what I "do" in retirement should be incidental. I didn't consider working for money in retirement other than maybe volunteering, but I'm 15 years away and that could certainly change. If I was primarily a Pensioner in retirement, which I won't be, I could understand the income decrease. After the Detroit's Chapter 9, I'm too paranoid to let my net worth be determined by anybody but myself. :D
 
KeithASanford said:
Okay, now I get it.
I was thinking along the lines of financial independence in retirement, where my money will sustain my lifestyle and what I "do" in retirement should be incidental. I didn't consider working for money in retirement other than maybe volunteering, but I'm 15 years away and that could certainly change. If I was primarily a Pensioner in retirement, which I won't be, I could understand the income decrease. After the Detroit's Chapter 9, I'm too paranoid to let my net worth be determined by anybody but myself. :D
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The idea that people will do nothing productive in "retirement" is a quaint old notion.
 
KeithASanford said:
Okay, now I get it.
I was thinking along the lines of financial independence in retirement, where my money will sustain my lifestyle and what I "do" in retirement should be incidental. I didn't consider working for money in retirement other than maybe volunteering, but I'm 15 years away and that could certainly change. If I was primarily a Pensioner in retirement, which I won't be, I could understand the income decrease. After the Detroit's Chapter 9, I'm too paranoid to let my net worth be determined by anybody but myself. :D
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Similarly, I've got my plans as far as savings and general setup where my investments should sustain my lifestyle. But I also have seen many for whom sedentary retirement is what kills them. So the general idea is plan so that I don't need to work, but then probably end up doing some sort of work anyway because I want to.
 
I got thrown into the world of aircraft ownership out of a lack of options in my local area. It's one of the best things that could've happened to me. I ended up with a high speed, low cost platform which ended up having massive utility for a business which I started about a year later. The business involves a lot of travel, often at short notice to a wide variety of destinations, some of which are not easily accessible by commercial aircraft.

I'm flying to Nashua, NH (about 160nm away) on a fairly regular basis for a new joint venture and will be doing so for the forseeable future. It's hard to overstate the convenience of being 3 minutes from my airport. My door to door times on these trips border on comical compared with other forms of travel. Having a fast airplane really helps on the longer roundtrips, too. I do 1200-2500nm round trips 4-6 times a year, it seems, all for business. Worst case scenario, my flight costs about $200 more than an airline ticket. Best case, I'm crushing the door to door times with meetings at several stops along the way, all with dynamic schedules.

I've added up the costs of ownership and they're very reasonable for this type of airplane, and the value it provides. If it was 100% recreational flying, I'd still love it for the flexibility that it provides. I will say, though, that I've struggle with a significantly slower aircraft. The round trip times for the trips I need to do become less practical after a while.
 
Would it be practical to get my A&P and then get an airplane? I could do all the servicing to my plane, then fly it when i need to.

I plan on going into the Air Force, and will find my self a way to getting my A&P certificate in the Air Force (hopefully.)

But at 19 and chasing a college degree, ugh, i feel so far from my dream.

But i will own my own plane, a beautiful 172, or maybe a 120, maybe a piper pacer, or maybe even a eurocoupe!!!

I just dont know about the gas prices...that kind of scares me, as my future of owning a plane may be slim because of it.


I think that owning an airplane is cool, if you fly it all the time. But if you fly casually, then renting may be the option.


Owning a J3 would be nice too...
 
You might not have a lot of money now but you have something much more valuable in the bank: time. Get an education and then a career. Expensive hobbies will work themselves out along the way.
 
KJ4CCH said:
Would it be practical to get my A&P and then get an airplane? I could do all the servicing to my plane, then fly it when i need to.

I plan on going into the Air Force, and will find my self a way to getting my A&P certificate in the Air Force (hopefully.)

But at 19 and chasing a college degree, ugh, i feel so far from my dream.

But i will own my own plane, a beautiful 172, or maybe a 120, maybe a piper pacer, or maybe even a eurocoupe!!!

I just dont know about the gas prices...that kind of scares me, as my future of owning a plane may be slim because of it.


I think that owning an airplane is cool, if you fly it all the time. But if you fly casually, then renting may be the option.


Owning a J3 would be nice too...
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For most people getting an A&P will cost more than what they save on labor, especially as a "hobby" mechanic won't be able to maintain an IA so you will still be taking yearly trips to someone else.

Also, you won't "get" your A&P in the airforce, you might get the required experience to take the tests, but that will still be up to you. Also if you goal is to work on your own GA plane you will still likely need some form of training as I very much doubt the military has much interest in teaching you reciprocating aircraft engines.

If I hadn't managed to con the school district into paying for my airframe and general training I would be looking at 20-30 years of typical labor before my schooling payed off if all I did was work on my own plane. As it is I did get them to foot the bill and only had to pay for my powerplant rating, I am probably nearing the break even point (excluding my job) for cost savings on my plane now after 8 years of ownership. Compare that to owner assisted maintenance and the break even points get longer.

Not to discourage you from becoming an A&P but from a purely monetary point of view it is hard to justify if you aren't going to work in the field.
 
Unregistered said:
It was always a dream of mine to own an airplane and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning and flying mine.


My mind tells me to sell but my heart tells me to fly as long as I can.

Not really looking for advice on what I should do, but does this weigh on anyone else's mind and how did you find peace with your decision?
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You can't fly money in the bank. You can only spend it and when you spend it, it is gone.
 
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