PPL Training and Deer Strike - Read your Insurance Policy

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sblackb

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Sblackb
Debated where to post this, but while I'm still in flight training, I feel like this is an issue that will affect more than just students, but possible many renter.

It all started in November on a three hour tour with my CFI to get my night requirements in. I really don't like the idea of flying at night as a low time VFR pilot and have been pushing this dual time off to the bitter end. I had knocked out all my other required time, with the exception of the night work, a little more hood time, and some solo work. I rent a plane from an individual who has a renters agreement that states if I bend the 75 Archer, I pay to fix, so I took out a non-owned (renters) policy through AIG via AOPA for $80k hull and $1mm liability. (About $950 for the year) Of course that was the furthest thing from my mind as we lifted off into the dark at 3dw headed for JLN for some landings.

After handling those well, and being surprisingly less terrified of landing in the dark, we headed down to HFJ to do some more work. Instructor wanted me to land with no runway lights to make sure I knew how in case lights wouldn't come on. After landing reasonably well the first lap, we then were going to perform a no landing light scenario. I was able to set that one down on pavement as well, I raised the flaps and started the roll for takeoff when a buck charged in front of the plane and went through the prop, down the cowl, and landing gear. I quickly shut it down a brought the plan to a stop. I was able to still taxi to the ramp and luckily there was a crew there to help get the deer off the runway before a jet that was arriving 20 minutes later landed. We had a much longer trip back to 3dw as you might imagine that night.

So, the next day I talk to my insurance company and the owner of the plane. We go through an info gathering phase for a couple weeks only to have AIG come back and deny the claim stating I wasn't legally liable for the damage since it was "act of God" and siting an exception buried in the policy that states the policy does not cover liability I assume. AKA, my rental agreement. And, since the owner refuses to turn it into his insurances since he didn't tell them he was renting the plan, I don't have a way of forcing AOPA / AIG to the table unless I sue them personally. The total bill is coming to $36k, and I've had two lawyers review the contracts and agree this is insurance bad faith, but I'd end up most likely spend $8 - 10k to get this to court with about 70% chance of reclaiming the $36k, but probably not legal fees.

My reason for posting is two fold:

1. See if anyone has experience with this and any advice on dealing with insurance companies like this.
2. Make sure those with non-owned policies (Especially ones through AOPA / AIG) understand that they may only cover the owner's deductible, your negligence as a pilot, and specified legal fees. That leaves a lot of gray areas that you are on the hook for.

The whole thing has had me pretty bummed out on flying, but I went ahead and finished my night requirements before Thanksgiving and now just have 5 hours of solo time to do. I'm basically spending my airplane purchase fund getting this guy's plane fixed.

Am I getting screwed or and I just screwed? Thoughts?
 
At least you killed the deer who damaged the Archer. I'd be more upset if the bastard got up and ran away.
 
I can't remember ever landing without landing lights during training - is that really a normal thing to do???
 
Yeah, it was a really expensive first deer.
 
Lando said:
I can't remember ever landing without landing lights during training - is that really a normal thing to do???
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Dunno, it was that night and I have a friend that did his night before me and had to do it without landing light, at least on one pass.
 
Lando said:
I can't remember ever landing without landing lights during training - is that really a normal thing to do???
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I did it a few times. Good to practice in case your landing light fails.
 
Lando said:
I can't remember ever landing without landing lights during training - is that really a normal thing to do???
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Absolutely... unless your plane has an LED landing light that bulb is gonna burn out relatively soon, the electrical system could fail, one loose wire, etc

Murphys Law is always in play as well.
 
When we finished up our night flight, we flew down to 42A and would you believe we couldn't get the runway lights on? Glad I had the landing light on that one and it was officially hunting season (Deer were hiding by then.)
 
So....the owner was doing a commercial operation with his airplane on a personal use policy....hmmm.

I think you are probably screwed, but if you wanted to make trouble, you could ask the owner if he'd mind if you called his insurance company.....

What does your CFI suggest?
 
I'd talk to a lawyer who specifically handles coverage disputes. Obviously I don't know whether this should be covered under your policy or not, but if it is, I would be shocked to learn that in Missouri, a successful suit for refusal to pay wouldn't get you attorney's fees plus some penalty.

You might also talk to your lawyer about what happens if you refuse to pay for the damage. In some cases, an insurance company has to defend you against a lawsuit even if they think they wouldn't have to pay a claim.

Failing all of that, I'd want the lawyer to take a close look at the rental agreement and have a very serious talk with the owner. It does not sound like you were negligent in any way and this was one of those true accidents. I'd be very unhappy if he expected me to pay for damage I wasn't responsible for just because he was in violation of his insurance.
 
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I'm guessing that the owner of the plane is also his friend and it's not strictly a business arrangement, and the OP doesn't want to burn a bridge.
 
Strange that they consider it an act of God, if you hit a deer in the car its usually considered a no fault accident. They still pay to fix the car and I don't think your rates go up. I would expect the same for aircraft.

Landing without runway lights seems to be normal for training, I had to do it.
 
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Maciej said:
I'm guessing that the owner of the plane is also his friend and it's not strictly a business arrangement, and the OP doesn't want to burn a bridge.
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That may be a valid point. Burning bridges can be a tough call, especially when a student pilot.

But the owner was an idiot for renting the airplane without his own commercial policy. The owner was very lucky that the only damage was to the deer and plane.

If there is no way for insurance to cover it, it might be worth having a frank discussion with the owner and splitting the cost of repair.
 
sblackb said:
only to have AIG come back and deny the claim stating I wasn't legally liable for the damage since it was "act of God"
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I know "act of God" is a legal term of art, but that's not among the exclusions listed in my own AIG renter's policy. "Acts of God" (in the legal sense) contribute to many aviation accidents, so an exclusion of that sort would vitiate an insurance policy.

and [c]iting an exception buried in the policy that states the policy does not cover liability I assume. AKA, my rental agreement.
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For reference, my own policy states, "We will pay for physical damage to your non-owned aircraft for which you are legally liable, caused by an occurrence arising from your use of a non-owned aircraft". Of what use is a renter's insurance policy that excludes the renter's liability under the rental agreement?
 
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I believe that Lindberg is on the right track and I do understand that the OP is likely very good friends with the owner of the plane. I know he's stuck, but what may be right is right.

I am a huge hater of insurance in all aspects and not just related to aviation. I have a good friend that has been in insurance for approximately 30 years and he is probably sick of hearing me complain about it from time to time. Usually with my business insurance.

I know that this is too late, but I worked at a company that for every project or large purchase we had our legal people look at the coverage and try to cover all scenarios. Yes, there were some missed time to time and some large ones like a flood that wiped out a building, but it doesn't hurt to have someone review a policy or a contract. Would have they caught this, maybe not, but it's worth having someone look at it.

This has to sound crazy to everyone that has read this because if I were to hit a deer with my car, the insurance company covers it. Why would we expect a deer on the runway to be normal and if we hit it, it is an accident. I believe that you should hire a lawyer and pursue it. I have in the past and the insurance company bucked up. Mine was for loss of business, but I had a 72 hour wait and didn't want to accept it. Put some pressure on the insurance company to at least go further.
 
sblackb said:
AKA, my rental agreement. And, since the owner refuses to turn it into his insurances since he didn't tell them he was renting the plan, I don't have a way of forcing AOPA / AIG to the table unless I sue them personally.
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Couple of things to think about.

1. You were flying with your CFI as a student, correct? I believe the CFI is acting as PIC in that case and is responsible for the airplane. The CFI should have his own policy for instructing. A deer strike shouldn't hurt his record or chances of getting a job if he is time building.

2. 36k is a lot of money. You were renting a plane that you signed a rental agreement for, and you went out and got your own renter's insurance that would cover the hull value. You did everything you were supposed to do. If the owner did not have his insurance right, and this is the reason the repair is not covered, its his fault, not yours. He was the one trying to cheat on not paying for the right insurance. If he led you to believe otherwise (rental agreement, etc...) I would burn a bridge over this.

3. Work this as much as you can while using lawyers to a minimum. I had a very expensive warranty issue recently with a new vehicle, they denied the repair. Took me 3 weeks of gathering info, making calls, writing letters and it was finally covered. I thought I was going to have to go to court, but I remained patient and eventually everything worked out.

I don't know if you have consulted with an aviation attorney yet, or just an insurance attorney. I would find an aviation specific attorney and let them review this for you.
 
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"...a buck charged in front of the plane and went through the prop,..."

"We had a much longer trip back to 3dw as you might imagine that night." :hairraise::hairraise::hairraise:

You had a prop strike and then flew the plane without a mechanical inspection- at the very least- and then flew the plane home IN THE DARK??
 
paflyer said:
"...a buck charged in front of the plane and went through the prop,..."

"We had a much longer trip back to 3dw as you might imagine that night." :hairraise::hairraise::hairraise:

You had a prop strike and then flew the plane without a mechanical inspection- at the very least- and then flew the plane home IN THE DARK??
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I'm pretty sure that means they drove home. Much slower mode of transportation.
 
Good idea to do some night landings without the landing light. That's normally how you find out the bulb is burned out.
 
dell30rb said:
You were flying with your CFI as a student, correct? I believe the CFI is acting as PIC in that case and is responsible for the airplane.
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Liability for damage depends on who signed the rental agreement, not on who was PIC. Or at least the renter's obligation to the owner doesn't depend on who's PIC. It's conceivable that the CFI/PIC is in turn liable to the renter, but I'd guess not.
 
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Lando said:
I can't remember ever landing without landing lights during training - is that really a normal thing to do???
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My instructor had me do it several times, and I did it once in "real life" after an electrical failure at night.
 
I don't see the issue. The insurance says it won't cover it if you were not legally liable (and if you were not legally liable, you have no obligation to pay, so no problem). If it turns out that you were legally liable, insurance pays.
 
Tell the insurance carrier you don't believe in god(s). This problem solved - not to mention many others.
 
This is interesting - I'm a renter and also have the AOPA AIG policy. A few dynamics at play:
1 - You rented a plane from someone who was not supposed to be renting it
2 - You, as the renter, were not responsible for the damage - as per AIG
It seems like the owner is liable for damages, not you. If you feel a personal sense of obligation to him and/or don't want to burn this bridge, then - is the bridge worth $36K?

However, if the owner chooses to sue you, then it sounds like he'd lose.

Can you explain #2 of your cautionary statement above (which I appreciate)? You said ... "That leaves a lot of gray areas that you are on the hook for." Are you sure you're on the hook for something here?
 
I would not blame the CFI for this at all. He was giving you good training, and you probably wouldn't have seen the deer in time even with the light on. The suggestion to ask the CFI to see about his policy is not one I would pursue.

The airplane was renting you the plane without wanting to either have the correct policy (rental) or add you to the policy as a named pilot. This would have solved the problem entirely if he had. When I was "renting" the Mooney from its owners, I was named insured and we had it set up as a club. There was never a question of whose insurance paid if I hit a deer. So in reality, he was basically hoping you didn't damage the plane and hoping to get money in without actually having to do anything for it.

It sounds to me like your insurance should cover it, this to me is a clear in-motion damage and the exact sort of reason we get insurance. I would sue them over this. You will still be out money (and more if you lose), but this is bad faith insurance. They may back down once they get a letter from your lawyer.
 
nj-pilot said:
This is interesting - I'm a renter and also have the AOPA AIG policy. A few dynamics at play:
1 - You rented a plane from someone who was not supposed to be renting it
2 - You, as the renter, were not responsible for the damage - as per AIG
It seems like the owner is liable for damages, not you. If you feel a personal sense of obligation to him and/or don't want to burn this bridge, then - is the bridge worth $36K?

However, if the owner chooses to sue you, then it sounds like he'd lose.

Can you explain #2 of your cautionary statement above (which I appreciate)? You said ... "That leaves a lot of gray areas that you are on the hook for." Are you sure you're on the hook for something here?
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Not only that, but you can probably convince AIG to defend you since it is in their interest to keep you "not liable".

disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and I do not even play one on TV. What I said makes logical sense to me, but as we all should know, law and logic do not usually go hand and hand. So, there.
 
nj-pilot said:
1 - You rented a plane from someone who was not supposed to be renting it
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There was nothing improper about the owner's renting out the plane. But the owner did so without insurance to cover it.

2 - You, as the renter, were not responsible for the damage - as per AIG
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AIG has no authority to relieve the renter of his liability to the owner under the rental contract he signed.
 
acrophile said:
AIG has no authority to relieve the renter of his liability to the owner under the rental contract he signed.
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All we know about that rental agreement is:

sblackb said:
I rent a plane from an individual who has a renters agreement that states if I bend the 75 Archer, I pay to fix...
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And the renter's insurance co is saying that statement "I pay to fix" relieves them of any responsibility?
 
sblackb said:
I've had two lawyers review the contracts and agree this is insurance bad faith, but I'd end up most likely spend $8 - 10k to get this to court with about 70% chance of reclaiming the $36k, but probably not legal fees.
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Assuming that's correct, you should still sue: 0.7 * $36k = $25.2k > $10k, right?
 
Matthew said:
And the renter's insurance co is saying that statement "I pay to fix" relieves them of any responsibility?
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It sounds like AIG is saying that they only cover liability that's inherent in renting, and not any extra liability stipulated by a rental contract; and they're saying that (in the absence of the contract) that inherent liability would have excluded damage from "acts of God" (e.g. deer strikes).

If the policy states such exclusions, maybe AIG has a case. I only know that my own AIG policy says nothing of the sort. The only provision that sounds vaguely similar is, "In the event of a claim, occurrence, suit, or loss, you agree to: not assume any obligation or liability, offer or pay any reward except at your expense, or make any payment except for necessary first aid to others..."

But that's just saying you shouldn't unilaterally offer any settlement after an accident. It's not talking about signing a rental agreement beforehand.
 
Not entirely the same, but I've LOANED my airplane to someone to do his RV transition training. The "Open Pilot" clause of my policy requires 500 hrs total. I told this gentleman that he could borrow my plane if he flew with the CFI I designated and replaced the fuel he used.

Fortunately nothing went wrong, but I think if anything had happened my insurance would have paid out since the PIC was WAY over the required hours for Open Pilot.

The use of the plane as a Rental is probably the sticky wicket for the OP and the owner.

Should be interesting to read what the actual lawyers have to say on this.
 
acrophile said:
It sounds like AIG is saying that they only cover liability that's inherent in renting, and not any extra liability stipulated by a rental contract; and they're saying that (in the absence of the contract) that inherent liability would have excluded damage from "acts of God" (e.g. deer strikes).

If the policy states such exclusions, maybe AIG has a case. I only know that my own AIG policy says nothing of the sort. The only provision that sounds vaguely similar is, "In the event of a claim, occurrence, suit, or loss, you agree to: not assume any obligation or liability, offer or pay any reward except at your expense, or make any payment except for necessary first aid to others..."

But that's just saying you shouldn't unilaterally offer any settlement after an accident. It's not talking about signing a rental agreement beforehand.
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That all makes sense. Except the "act of God" exclusion when it comes to the deer. Are bird strikes excluded, too? Something just doesn't seem right.
 
Matthew said:
That all makes sense. Except the "act of God" exclusion when it comes to the deer. Are bird strikes excluded, too? Something just doesn't seem right.
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Exactly, sounds like BS. He hit an unavoidable hazard, i.e., wildlife where it wasn't supposed to be. A few hundred bucks for his attorney to write a nasty- gram to AIG should resolve it in his favor.
 
dell30rb said:
2. 36k is a lot of money. You were renting a plane that you signed a rental agreement for, and you went out and got your own renter's insurance that would cover the hull value. You did everything you were supposed to do. If the owner did not have his insurance right, and this is the reason the repair is not covered, its his fault, not yours. He was the one trying to cheat on not paying for the right insurance. If he led you to believe otherwise (rental agreement, etc...) I would burn a bridge over this.
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This. It sounds to me like he doesn't wanna get his insurance involved, because he knows he did something wrong. You did everything right, and everything you needed to do. You as a renter have no control over, or even any expectation of knowledge of his insurance state, and thus no responsibility for it beyond getting your own coverage, which you did. Your insurance is now not holding up to their end of the bargain, and the easiest way to leverage them to do their job is for his insurance to go after them. This is definite bridge burning territory to me. He's trying to stick you with the bill because he decided to take a risk and lost, but doesn't wanna man up and take the consequences for that choice.

Your insurance should still be the one paying, but insurance companies don't make record profits year after year by paying out on every claim without a fight. Getting his insurance involved will be the best tool for this fight, though they will probably penalize him in some way (and rightfully so)
 
Is a renter's policy secondary? Maybe that's the hang up - AIG doesn't want to pay until the owner gets his policyholder involved first?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would not blame the CFI for this at all. He was giving you good training, and you probably wouldn't have seen the deer in time even with the light on. The suggestion to ask the CFI to see about his policy is not one I would pursue.
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I was not suggesting anyone blame the CFI. But it stands to reason that if the student pilot was not PIC during the accident, the insurance company could legitimately deny a claim for that reason. This is why he needs to talk to an aviation attorney.

I don't suggest anyone is at fault but the insurance company and possibly the owner of the airplane if he did not have adequate coverage.
 
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Matthew said:
Is a renter's policy secondary? Maybe that's the hang up - AIG doesn't want to pay until the owner gets his policyholder involved first?
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That's what I am thinking. Except for the whole part about the 'act of god'. A wildlife strike is a pretty routine accident situation.

Best thing to do is get an aviation attorney. Maybe we are missing some details from the OP, but it does not sound like the original attorney did much except read his denial and suggest he sue the insurance company.
 
dell30rb said:
That's what I am thinking. Except for the whole part about the 'act of god'. A wildlife strike is a pretty routine accident situation.

Best thing to do is get an aviation attorney. Maybe we are missing some details from the OP, but it does not sound like the original attorney did much except read his denial and suggest he sue the insurance company.
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(and speaking from ignorance - not an insurance expert - maybe this?: )

I can see that AIG doesn't want to be on the hook for something that the owner should be covering. They are a "renter's" policy, not an "owner's" policy and they are going to pay for something their policyholder (the renter) is responsible for under their coverage. Or in any case, maybe they wouldn't expect to kick anything in unless there was a deductible or subrogation. So they are not going to pay because their policyholder has no responsibility in the case of a wildlife strike. They don't want to be responsible for any promises their policyholder might have made (per the rental agreement).

Dunno, but something doesn't seem right, and I think it's because the owner is trying to keep his insurance company from finding out.
 
Matthew said:
Dunno, but something doesn't seem right, and I think it's because the owner is trying to keep his insurance company from finding out.
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That was my thought when reading the first post.

To me, it sounds like you did your due diligence and perhaps the owner did not. In my opinion, you don't owe out of pocket for this fix. Get the owner's insurance company involved.
 
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