Stop doing that.
Ailerons can make a wing drop worse (depends on the airplane). Rudder works. Just look out the windscreen and use as much rudder as you need to keep the wings level. If you are holding a heading and the wings are level, then the ball will follow. Also, the ball is too slow to react to a wing drop - just look out the window and if the right wing drops, give it left rudder. Don't be shy.
I just don't get it, I'm sorry. I thought a fundamental principle was that ailerons control roll, and rudder controls yaw.
You should be ignoring the horn anyway. That goes off prior to a stall, not at the stall……. It sounds like you are over controlling the aircraft. Just keep firmly pulling back using subtle rudder movement to keep the nose straight (no ailerons). When the nose drops, pitch forward with it to gain airspeed and then slowly pitch back and start climbing out at proper airspeed.
My instructor mentioned it, he said that when the stall actually occurs the siren stops, and that might make it easier for me to "notice" the feeling of the nose dropping.
Right rudder, right rudder, right rudder.........
What?
Eyes outside is a good suggestion. Definitely don't be so fixated on the horn as everyone has already said, it's to warn you of an impending stall not necessarily that you are IN a stall. I used to recover when the horn went off, and the instructor's were like..what are you doing? Keep going..
Airspeed is a good crosscheck too, you already know what speed the plane stalls at clean/dirty so when you are closing in on that you should be "feeling" for that buffet of air, wing drop, etc.
Definitely do the falling leaf. The first time I did one in a Cessna, the instructor had me do one with a power off stall, I could keep up pretty easily with the alternative rudder movements. Then we did one power on, holy crap, that was harder. He showed me and I was shocked at how fast you had to move your feet to keep that thing stabilized. It was like he was tap-dancing on the rudders.
Oh and one little suggestion for power-on stalls, you don't have to use full power. Often times you can go 65% - 75% power once you've reached Vr (which is the speed I used).
Some planes like the C162 I flew can climb like crazy, so slightly less than full power is acceptable to get you to stall quicker. The DPE I flew with on my PPL checkride also said, just go 65% power so we can get there faster.
Slow down to Vr, pitch up 20% adding power to 65% and HOLD the angle, don't keep pitching up. It'll happen
I'm doing what my instructor tells me. He tells me to go with full power. I might bring this up but see below.
Rookie CFI stuff.
Just be sure you're in spin envlope and at altitude, say (not shout) it once, then let things go where they will, ether way no biggie and a lesson learned anyway, you really should spin train your guys before first solo anyways.
What?
I did falling leaf stalls and spins after I got my ticket. I really wish I had done them before. If your instructor is uncomfortable with the idea, find one who is not.
Everyone here says this is a good idea, I have to consider it.
152 stall horns are passive reeds and they do occasionally pop out or plug up. You should suck on it in preflight. Does it work then? Does a different 152 work better?
You should learn all maneuvers with eyes outside, except perhaps for a glance here and there. Steep turns are going to kick your butt otherwise. keep the nose pointed at a landmark. React to a dipped wing with rudder only.
We did it in preflight once, and it works. It's just not loud enough for me to hear during flight.
At a minimum, it sounds like you and your instructor have a communications problem. If he's got any experience at all, he should have picked up on the bolded statements already and you should know that they are a problem.
As others have said, this is an "eyes outside" maneuver for the most part. Sometimes I demo for the student what it looks like and have them watch the instruments if they really need to, but that's NOT primary. I'm guessing you have also not had a good lesson prior to this on adverse yaw and exactly what the ailerons and the rudder do and how to use them in coordinated fashion. That's pre-stall training for me.
If you're not feeling the buffeting or controls, you're probably not in "tune" with the aircraft yet and still too nervous for your brain to process additional things. May take some time. Practically, I would ask if you're carrying stuff in your back pockets and tell you to find another place for that stuff. Once pilots connect everything together, a good tailwheel pilot can FEEL for the most part whether or not he is coordinated without looking at the "ball" and that is one of the major advantages of that kind of training. I really didn't "feel" the ball until after I had gotten my TW endorsement - AFTER I already had my pilot's license!
He's 22 with 1500 hours, and he's passed 20 students. I'm 38 with 5 hours. I said to the school before I joined, that I was concerned about his age, because I would appreciate the understanding and eloquence of experience. Here's the response I got:
My name is xxx. I am the Assistant Chief Pilot here for xxx. I see you have a concern with the Instructor you are partnered with as in maturity or personality. We have you with xxx as your primary Instructor and with that said I want you to understand I have personally trained over 90 students and xxx being one of them. Let's put it this way, I trust him with my family in the airplane. xxx is everything you described you needed in an Instructor. As for him looking young, xxx is 22 years old and probably one of my most trusted pilots. I taught him the tricks of the trade. So before you make a decision based on your knowledge of what you think you need let me assure you I know my Instructors and whats best for you as a new upcoming pilot
When I was flustered during the power-on stall, he kind of said "don't get panicky, it doesn't make me nervous but it can be a bit annoying, you have to stay calm". Easy for him to say, I don't know what the hell's going on, and then before I know it we're dropping and rolling to the right. I felt utterly out of control, I'm all for pushing my comfort zone, but within limits.
The rest of the lesson (slow fight, power off stalls, a landing), I was in a bit of a daze and forgot some really basic things. He also just got accepted with an airline job, he starts in a month or so. He's obviously talented but I'm starting to wonder if he's not the instructor for me and I should ask for an alternative, or if i should just quit. I want to enjoy it, I'm not now, it's clearly much harder than I expected, and I don't want to stay in it because of misplaced pride. Sorry if this seems negative. It's also annoying that I'm in an accelerated program, it's not like I can take a week or two off to chill out and re-evaluate. I really appreciate everyone's contributions and thoughts, I have big respect for you all!
You are correct, I have not had the lesson on adverse yaw, and how to use the ailerons and rudder in coordinated fashion. All my turns have been ailerons only, during take-off I give right rudder so as not to veer left, other than that the rudder usage is a mystery.
I just met my instructor this morning and he was already talking about what we're going to do today. I said hold on, I barely slept last night, I'm not comfortable with yesterday, he said don't worry we'll do lots more stalls, I said at the moment I don't want to do even one, because I still don't understand what to do, how the controls influence what happens, and what happened yesterday. He sort of clammed up, I don't think he has much empathy. I'm not criticizing him, he's obviously talented, and he's fun. That doesn't of course mean he's a good instructor, or at least right for me.
