Power Hangar Door W/Inverter?

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Ranger

Filing Flight Plan
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Ranger
So I own a hanger that is "off-grid" and uses a gas generator to power the hangar door for opening/closing functions. It's an old generator and it's crazy loud. The hangar also doesn't have any lights or other electrical equipment due to not having power. Power from the utility is "possible," at some expense, but I really just need power for the door, as well as the LED lights I'm installing this weekend.

So I've been looking at a solar setup- 100watt panel that charges a 12v battery bank that supplies a 5000 watt (10000 watt peak) inverter. Very comparable to buying another generator, and quiet to boot.

Has anyone here powered a hangar door motor with a similar setup? It's a bifold door and runs off 120V / 15A plug. The math works out for the inverter I'm looking at.
 
Your success/fail will initially be in the battery capacity. I can run anything I have on my inverter but some appliances require more juice than others. Battery capacity is everything, closely followed by recovery time, and that's on the solar panel. Use will determine what you need. Most of us with solar systems have backup generators.
 
Also be careful of the type of load that can be driven by the inverter. Many won't tolerate an inductive load such as a typical single phase AC motor.

Clever thought though....!
 
nrpetersen said:
Also be careful of the type of load that can be driven by the inverter. Many won't tolerate an inductive load such as a typical single phase AC motor.

Clever thought though....!
Click to expand...
Can you help me understand that. I just learned that an inverter generator generates AC, converts it to DC and electronically inverts it back to nice clean AC at a fixed frequency that can run computers and other delicate electronics. That way it can throttle down and run quietly under low load without changing the hertz rate. At least that's the way I thought I learned it. why would a single phase AC not like that?
 
Ranger said:
Has anyone here powered a hangar door motor with a similar setup?
Click to expand...
Maybe reduce your solar system to power everything except door then purchase new generator to handle door motor only (to include motor start surge). Know of a couple similar with this set up and uses solar to power hangar plus small attached "camp" and uses a small Honda gen to open/close door plus various power tools when needed. but they run off solar mostly.
 
JOhnH said:
Can you help me understand that. I just learned that an inverter generator generates AC, converts it to DC and electronically inverts it back to nice clean AC at a fixed frequency that can run computers and other delicate electronics. That way it can throttle down and run quietly under low load without changing the hertz rate. At least that's the way I thought I learned it. why would a single phase AC not like that?
Click to expand...

It's been a while, but I think where he's going is that the inverter is rated assuming a load with a power factor of 1.0, but the electric motor may have a lower power factor, say 0.7. In this case, the inverter is at least twice as big as it needs to be, so the OP should have enough margin.
 
Carefully check the motor labeling, it might have load rating on it, you may not need 15A.


Tom
 
John - I don't know typical power factors for AC motors (I'm a mech engineer) but if your rig is reassembling the square wave output from the inverter itself into a sine wave, you may have a good chance of it working. I don't thing you would have any margin though for simultaneous operation of your neighbor's door (!) as the initial power surge of a typical single phase motor is substantial - like 2-3 times the rated current. What does the motor nameplate say? Any way you could just try it out?
 
Could one use their car (running) to power the door? Then rely on a solar/battery setup for the rest?

Just thinking outside of my box


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You will have to check the motor nameplate for exact amps and volts, plus volt amperes (VA), which is usually close to watts.
Volt amperes are always more than watts, we do not need to understand the difference here. Using a standard 15/20 amp plug limits how many amps are allowed for the appliance, per code, and manufacturers do follow code on power cords.

The calculations below show that you have plenty of ampere capacity from the inverter, and the battery will last about 30 minutes max of run time, if it is a good standard auto battery, 60 AH, or more.Your actual bank should be golf cart batteries if you plan much lighting and power tool use. They stand the most abuse without rapid deterioration.

Plan on at least 10 ampere hours per hour for each 100 watt led fixture for lighting when deciding the battery bank size you buy. The DC amps listed below are the estimated draw on the battery bank when the motor is running. Time the run time to open, and close to determine the actual ampere hours needed, then double in case of low voltage on a cold day.

Inverter AC values
5000 watts
120 volts
41 amps
82 amps surge

motor approximate AC values
1200 watts, approx
10 amp run DC 100 amp
120 volts
30 amp start surge DC 300 amp
 
What about using a hard start capacitor to overcome the initial surge?

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This may be REALLY stupid.. I just don't know... but how onerous would it be to just rig up a hand crank of some kind? I mean, they have those big wheel thingies to spin to lift boats out of the water. Gotta be some way to make it manual and not worry about all of this expensive and potentially failure-prone battery/inverter tech stuff if the hangar is truly off the grid.
 
yeah, post a pic of the dataplate for the motor and the inverter proposed.
the motors I have are all discussed using their continuous or ‘run’ amp draw but the inrush, or starting amperage is much higher.
 
You know what most of we off grid solar system owners do before we start a big motor or other large draw appliance? We start the generator.
 
Bill Watson said:
Could one use their car (running) to power the door? Then rely on a solar/battery setup for the rest?

Just thinking outside of my box


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Click to expand...
My thoughts as well. He would obviously need to provide a means of connecting the car and hangar batteries together (like a long set of jumper cables - or a dedicated set of
contacts on the outside).

Another approach would be to install the inverter in your car - and run an extension cord out to it as needed.

Dave
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
If he's got a pickup, hook up cables and pulleys to the tow hitch and pull the door up!
100 bucks and zero need for a generator, a motor, grid power!
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Why not just do it by hand? How heavy are the doors? A pulley system can give you the leverage you need.


Tom
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Why not just do it by hand? How heavy are the doors? A pulley system can give you the leverage you need.


Tom
Click to expand...

Looking at the door in the video and comparing it with my door, I just wouldn’t go down that path. Obviously it could be done but it’s interesting to note that I’ve not seen a hand powered backup option on doors that size. Has anyone else seen one?

Think about returning from a long cross country flight and having to shut down, crank up the door, get the plane in, unload, and then crank down the door (or do you have to include a braking system for a gravity descent?)


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Let'sgoflying! said:
If he's got a pickup, hook up cables and pulleys to the tow hitch and pull the door up!
100 bucks and zero need for a generator, a motor, grid power!
Click to expand...

There are other non-electric variations on that theme:

4e76ba0ceefb5986dce63b50c2c3b106.jpg
 
Bill Watson said:
Looking at the door in the video and comparing it with my door, I just wouldn’t go down that path. Obviously it could be done but it’s interesting to note that I’ve not seen a hand powered backup option on doors that size. Has anyone else seen one?

Think about returning from a long cross country flight and having to shut down, crank up the door, get the plane in, unload, and then crank down the door (or do you have to include a braking system for a gravity descent?)


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Click to expand...

From https://diamonddoors.com/our-doors/features/

Emergency Manual Opener
  • The manual opener system is designed
    image2-300x226.jpeg
    as a back-up to open and close the door in case of a power outage. Each custom designed electric motor is equipped with a hex shaft located on the top side on the motor. With the appropriate socket you can spin the motor shaft to open or close the Bi-Fold door manually.
 
JAWS said:
From https://diamonddoors.com/our-doors/features/

Emergency Manual Opener
  • The manual opener system is designed
    image2-300x226.jpeg
    as a back-up to open and close the door in case of a power outage. Each custom designed electric motor is equipped with a hex shaft located on the top side on the motor. With the appropriate socket you can spin the motor shaft to open or close the Bi-Fold door manually.
Click to expand...

Well, there it is, thanks!

I once had to hand crank one of those home chair lifts up (and down) about 2 feet. Took close to 15 minutes and I was exhausted.


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If you decide to try using an inverter be careful! You might get the 4th of July early with smoke, flames, and even an explosion.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone, as well as the off-the-beaten track ideas. The hangar setup I have also needed to be compatible with my spouse, who also flies, so it couldn’t be a Rube Goldberg workaround...though some of the suggestions were pretty interesting.

JAWS posted the video about the Canuck with the batteries, solar and inverter setup, and I elected to go that route. I bought a 5000w/10000w peak inverter that was on sale (w/excellent reviews), a 100w solar panel, a 30amp battery maintainer, and 2 90amp-hour batteries. After installation, it works great. It’s super quiet, although now that I’m not running the generator I can hear the door protesting a bit, so some maintenance and lubrication is planned for it next week.

If I need to expand the setup later, I can add more batteries and/or solar panels, so it’s very scalable to my needs without much fuss.

The LEDs are amazing too. I opted for the Lithonia 8’ LED strip and installed 6 total, though I don’t need more than four.

Total solar/inverter/battery cost was about $900, or half the cost of a Honda generator, but with double the output.

Thanks!
 
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