Possibly buying first airplane what are the steps?

DFH65

DFH65

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DFH65
So I am looking at possibly buying an airplane. This would be my first so I just have some questions on the process. Let me qualify this a little:

I know the seller he is the CFI I did my tailwheel with in this plane
Plane is local, about 30 minutes away and I plan to keep the plane at his strip at least for awhile
Price is like a used car, price is decent for what it is, I plan to just write a check for it
I have the logs in hand, have scanned them in and have reviewed them thoroughly
If I do proceed I plan to do a prebuy that would turn into an annual if I buy

So what are the steps once I decide to pull the trigger from the paperwork side of things.

I am guessing it is not as simple as writing a check getting a receipt and registering the plane in my name?

What else do I need to know?
 
DFH65 said:
So I am looking at possibly buying an airplane. This would be my first so I just have some questions on the process. Let me qualify this a little:

I know the seller he is the CFI I did my tailwheel with in this plane
Plane is local, about 30 minutes away and I plan to keep the plane at his strip at least for awhile
Price is like a used car, price is decent for what it is, I plan to just write a check for it
I have the logs in hand, have scanned them in and have reviewed them thoroughly
If I do proceed I plan to do a prebuy that would turn into an annual if I buy

So what are the steps once I decide to pull the trigger from the paperwork side of things.

I am guessing it is not as simple as writing a check getting a receipt and registering the plane in my name?

What else do I need to know?
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I really wish someone wrote something out like this for me. AOPA is a great resource.
0) Negotiate a price
1) If you trust the seller don't worry about a pre-purchase contract, but if not, then do a pre-purchase contract. One can be found on the AOPA website. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraf...ling-aircraft/sample-purchase-sales-agreement
2) Conduct a pre-buy inspection
3) Renegotiate based upon the findings of the pre-buy inspection
4) Pay money
5) Seller signs Aircraft Bill of Sale https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf
6) You submit aircraft registration and Bill of Sale to the FAA with a $5 check https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Form/AC_8050-1_5-2017.pdf
7)Make sure you have insurance


More importantly what type of plane?!

When I bought my plane it was sold as-is, so step 3 wasn't an option, but the seller paid for the annual inspection.
 
I would definitely go with a Purchase Agreement. I would also check with the FAA to make sure no liens are placed on the aircraft. The FAA will not process the Bill of Sale and Registration if there is a lien on the aircraft.
 
Have lots of cash readily available.
 
The most, by far, important step is find a good AP who has a ton of experice on type to do a prebuy, he should go over ALL the paperwork, do the most indepth inspection the plane will ever have as long as you own it, a good AP will also know the market and be able to compare the asking price to the value, you'll of course need all the logs and the FAA CD before he shows up.
I'd also run the N number and the serial number through the NTSB search (online) and also through Google.

This is the difference between spending money just on fuel and enjoying your time, vs spending money fixing broken stuff you should have known about.
 
idahoflier said:
I would definitely go with a Purchase Agreement. I would also check with the FAA to make sure no liens are placed on the aircraft. The FAA will not process the Bill of Sale and Registration if there is a lien on the aircraft.
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You sure about that lol
 
flyingron said:
The steps are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
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In this context "acceptance" is just a politically correct way of saying "resignation".;)
 
murphey said:
Have lots of cash readily available.
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And when that runs out (which it will), have an ample credit line waiting. That should keep you going until a faster, sleeker, sexier plane turns your head. Rinse and repeat.
 
DFH65 said:
So I am looking at possibly buying an airplane. This would be my first so I just have some questions on the process. Let me qualify this a little:

I know the seller he is the CFI I did my tailwheel with in this plane
Plane is local, about 30 minutes away and I plan to keep the plane at his strip at least for awhile
Price is like a used car, price is decent for what it is, I plan to just write a check for it
I have the logs in hand, have scanned them in and have reviewed them thoroughly
If I do proceed I plan to do a prebuy that would turn into an annual if I buy

So what are the steps once I decide to pull the trigger from the paperwork side of things.

I am guessing it is not as simple as writing a check getting a receipt and registering the plane in my name?

What else do I need to know?
Click to expand...
I have a CFI friend with an Aeronca. What airport are you flying out of?
 
James331 said:
.... a good AP will also know the market and be able to compare the asking price to the value...
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You had me agreeing with you, except for this...I wouldn't expect my AP to also know the values. If he does, great. Otherwise, there are others / other-means to find it.
 
ac8050-1 and ac8050-2, if not already mentioned. another next step is you probably getting a bad case of I-can-fly-whenever-the-bleep-I-want-to-itis.
 
eman1200 said:
another next step is you probably getting a bad case of I-can-fly-whenever-the-bleep-I-want-to-itis.
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Except when weather sucks. Trying to fly now... so of course Wx disagrees.
KBJC 071347Z 16006KT 1/8SM FG VV002 M04/M04 A3018
 
The last step is to come back here and let us know how it went. So many of these threads end as cliffhangers. It would be much appreciated.
 
Or you can be like the few of us that just jump into ownership.

Started looking

Found a plane I liked, drove 3.5 hours to look at it.

Spent 3 hours or so looking it and the log books over

Spent an hour or so talking to the A&P IA that has maintained the plane for 8 years

Made an offer, discussed, counter offer, discussed, made a final offer with plans to walk away if need be.

talked of another hour, owner agreed to my offer. Discussed payment options.

Drove home

Got a call requesting some for of down payment while my money was moved around.

Sent check for down payment (no formal in writing anything, just a handshake)

Drove up made final payment got all paperwork signed. I.e. AC 8050-1, picked up spare parts that came with plane. Arranged to have the annual done on site. Owner didn't charge to store my new plane or even mind.

Drove back up almost a month later (A&P IA is a pilot as well as went to Oshkosh during this time)

Flew my new plane home....

Upgraded radio and I have flown it over 50 hours since August when I flew it home. Not bad for a first purchase.

Oh and the previous Owner and the A&P IA are truly stand up people. I would recommend either of them if you are ever in the Tecumseh Michigan area. I can't wait to fly back up in the spring/Summer to say hi to them.
 
Joey4420 said:
Or you can be like the few of us that just jump into ownership.

Started looking

Found a plane I liked, drove 3.5 hours to look at it.

Spent 3 hours or so looking it and the log books over

Spent an hour or so talking to the A&P IA that has maintained the plane for 8 years

Made an offer, discussed, counter offer, discussed, made a final offer with plans to walk away if need be.

talked of another hour, owner agreed to my offer. Discussed payment options.

Drove home

Got a call requesting some for of down payment while my money was moved around.

Sent check for down payment (no formal in writing anything, just a handshake)

Drove up made final payment got all paperwork signed. I.e. AC 8050-1, picked up spare parts that came with plane. Arranged to have the annual done on site. Owner didn't charge to store my new plane or even mind.

Drove back up almost a month later (A&P IA is a pilot as well as went to Oshkosh during this time)

Flew my new plane home....

Upgraded radio and I have flown it over 50 hours since August when I flew it home. Not bad for a first purchase.

Oh and the previous Owner and the A&P IA are truly stand up people. I would recommend either of them if you are ever in the Tecumseh Michigan area. I can't wait to fly back up in the spring/Summer to say hi to them.
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What type of plane???
 
DFH65 said:
I am guessing it is not as simple as writing a check getting a receipt and registering the plane in my name?
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It can be... but you're not really protecting yourself doing it this way. As others said get a prebuy done, if you're serious I would agree on a price now and offer a deposit. Then take the logs/scans to a trusted A&P and review them and go back to the seller with any questions or concerns. If there are none then have the same A&P go forward with the prebuy inspection.

To close the deal you can just use generic forms and pass check, cash, ect and finish up registration. Or you can use an Escrow company for $500 or so and request the seller split the costs.

I would caution you about trying to haggle price post inspection unless there are major issues. If it's an old plane it's going to have some squawks, as long as their not airworthy concerns then I wouldn't stress them.
 
OkieAviator said:
.....Or you can use an Escrow company for $500 or so and request the seller split the costs.....
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and some of them do most of the work for you.....lien/title check, file all forms, collect all cashola.....'spensive but man they make it easy.
 
I'm 80% done with the process right now. The only thing I would add, is to be realistic about what you expect to do, meaning mission and ratings. I started lessons and looking for a plane about 7 months ago. At that time I was cool with a VFR only C150 for $20K. As I spent a lot of time reading all the listings, flying in a 172 for lessons and getting realistic about what adding an instrument rating would mean in terms of both safety and capability, I evolved to a Piper PA-28 180 with a glass cockpit and very modern avionics. I'm not suggesting that's the path for you, but rather the value of not falling in love with the first plane you see.. If I'd done my original plan, I would have been shopping for a new plane in a year or two vs just going to the end state right away.

Again, not trying to talk you out of the one you are looking at, but rather to make sure it's right for you vs just being convenient.

Best of luck..
 
eman1200 said:
and some of them do most of the work for you.....lien/title check, file all forms, collect all cashola.....'spensive but man they make it easy.
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Yes using one right now in the sale of my beloved 172. Will be nice to have them handle a majority of the paperwork.
 
Read over the information provided by AOPA,it’s easier than you think,the key is to have plenty of money.
 
@DFH65, my wife had an Aeronca Chief for about 15yrs. I'm was too big to fly with her and go anywhere. However I helped with some maintenance and always hand propped when she would go up by herself or with our daughter. Even though we have the 182, my daughter still misses the Chief a lot. I think she liked that I had to start it but the girls got to leave without me :) Plus she could see out good and that nice sliding window to get fresh air.

Anyhow, it was quite simple and cheap to maintain. We only ever started it once in the winter, otherwise always did the cold wx storage recommended by the mechanic. Annuals would usually be around $500 and rarely find much wrong. The biggest pita was hand propping. We did have the hand start kit but never got around to installing it. Was always a pain to start when hot. I'd guess your first annual might be around $1k then back to normal after that.

When we sold ours it was just cash and signed over the registration but the amount was more like a used car. For a more expensive or complex plane I would want a purchase agreement.

They are awesome, low operational cost planes...have fun!!!
 
tawood said:
You had me agreeing with you, except for this...I wouldn't expect my AP to also know the values. If he does, great. Otherwise, there are others / other-means to find it.
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Guess it depends, the APIAs I've used over the years always seemed to buy planes on the side that had some issues, got bent, sat for decades and fixed them and sold them on the side, they often knew the market because they were always buying or selling or trading planes.
 
James331 said:
You sure about that lol
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Well, I have never tried it myself, but that's my understanding. However, after a little bit more research, no, I'm not sure about that...
 
As mentioned I do plan a pre-buy hopefully rolled into an annual if I do buy. I also have ordered the FAA CD. The value of this airplane is such that the sum of the parts is close to the asking price if that makes sense. Not that I am planning on it but it is priced where I wouldn't loose my whole shirt parting it out or selling it as a project if need be. I don't intend this to be a forever airplane I would like to hold onto it for a couple years and sell it. I am in a situation due to location and the recent loss, one sold one wrecked (not by me), of some other planes that I had access to that I really need something to fly that is reasonably inexpensive and fairly close.

@Sinistar I am a big guy too the useful load and just general size of this plane are probably my biggest concerns. Although I have flown this one several times with another adult male in it and enough fuel for the lesson at close to gross and it does OK with the 85HP. It is a little cramped but what plane of this era isn't. Mostly it will be my wife and I and with the two of us we can bring full fuel in the main tank and still be within gross and we don't mind being close :D. My mission is getting up in the air a few times a week flying low and slow, hitting a few pancake breakfasts or fly ins. Maybe get ambitious and fly to OSH sometime.
 
Oh yeah, does it have impulse mags?
 
OkieAviator said:
Yes using one right now in the sale of my beloved 172. Will be nice to have them handle a majority of the paperwork.
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There's more paperwork when selling a used car, or a boat trailer than an airplane.

To each their own, but I really don't get the whole escrow thing when buying a plane, if you can manage to get your PPL, you should have the ability to go over the FAA CD and fill out a few pages.
 
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Airplane buying steps:

1. Find airplane. Speak with owner - knows nothing, will not tell you anything, hides condition of airplane

2. Find another airplane - this guy does not want to sell - not really. Waste another week.

3. Find third airplane. spend money on inspections - find lots of undisclosed deferred maintenace - **** money away.

4. Find another airplane. You're jaded at this point. But this seller wants to sell, is a decent human being, discloses flaws as well as condition - honest mostly. Restores your faith in humanity.

5. you spend a couple thousand on inspections, travel, etc etc etc - then you decide to purchase. You coordinate all the issues, insurance, checkouts, etc etc and you now actually own an airplane.

6. A month later you have your first 'surprise' when an undisclosed squawk is discovered. $3000 later -you're flying again.

7. Months go by, you are happily flying every week - you have an annual - new eyes on the airplane find 3 uncomplied with AD's despite having a pre-purchase inspection - you cheaped out to not do the annual - because the guy seemed so honest.

8. $9000 later, you're back in the air again - but at least the mechanic next year will not find anything else not done because then its his rear.

9. Your spouse asks you how the airplane cost this year . . . .'not much.' You are now a true airplane owner.
 
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James331 said:
There's more paperwork when selling a used car, or a boat trailer than an airplane.

To each their own, but I really don't get the whole escrow thing when buying a plane, if you can manage to get your PPL, you should have the ability to go over the FAA CD and fill out a few pages.
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Agreed, the paper work isn't overly cumbersome. I believe the validation of funds does reduce the risk a bit, although I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone bouncing checks for a plane.
 
OkieAviator said:
Agreed, the paper work isn't overly cumbersome. I believe the validation of funds does reduce the risk a bit, although I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone bouncing checks for a plane.
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Just have the money wired, or hold till the check clears.
 
Separate question... FAA received my paperwork yesterday (known via USPS tracking). How long until it should show up in the FAA aircraft registry that I own the plane?
 
If I send the paperwork to the FAA myself how long does it take to get the registration changed over?
 
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