Possible to tell if the engine was broken in properly?
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Tom-D
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I don't believe it is a matter of skin in the game. It's more of changes in policy come slowly in our industry, specially when the FAA is involved, and of course there are hard heads that will do nothing their grand fathers didn't teach them.
The manufacturers set policy for their products, and it makes it difficult to change that as long as that product is still in service, and if they want to change the part number to a more better part, they must get the FAA to issue a new authorization to change design.
Red tape is why the break in process has not changed, Even when you use the old ways, it makes no difference, the cylinder still gets broke in. So why change the directive.
Stewartb
Final Approach
Within a month or so I’ll be breaking in a factory new Lycoming. I plan to do it by Lycoming specs. If you want to provide a warranty to do it your way I’ll have my attorney contact you to arrange the details. Step up or shut up.
Tom-D
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I would too, you are not dealing with after market cylinders like the conversation was about.
Here is an instruction from Superior, the last line says it all.
https://www.superiorairparts.com/downloads/serviceletters/L96-08.pdf
Stewartb
Final Approach
I just returned my 20 hour Superior engine and have spent a bit of time at their plant. I don’t think you have a leg up there, either. Heck, I have Millenniums on my Cessna sitting out front, too. Try harder.
Tom-D
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And tell us how much oil they used during break in?
Stewartb
Final Approach
Very little, because I know how to break in an engine. The OP asked a very valid question for a new aviation guy who doesn’t have a lot of knowledge of the topic. Why not put some of your (self proclaimed) vast knowledge to work and help the guy rather than try to confuse the audience with your revolving door of replies? If the motor was properly broken in the results will be high compressions and low oil consumption. Can you agree with that?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
Thank you.
Tom-D
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Already made my reply. did you read it? post 3 & 6
Tarheelpilot
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Well... that said if you quote anything from saavy... that guy is a great salesman the rest is suspect.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
The last line is "www.superiorairparts.com"
However, I also noticed this:
Which contradicts your statement:
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
As compared to what we have been getting from this thread?
Tom-D
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No it doesn't.
The only thing you need to get from this threads this. These new type cylinders do not need to be run as the old rough honed cylinder. They are made different and should be treated different.
I base my opinion on what I see in actual experience, And You?
I see you won't comment on my three types of cylinders and how they should be treated. I'll take that as basic lack of knowledge of the subject.
I can add some real world (to me) break in experience. Just had to replace one cylinder on a Continental TSIO520NB. Replaced with a new Continental nickel cylinder. I wanted to do it “right” so I minimized the first taxi and runup time. I took off and ran at high power (75%+) for 45 minutes. I have a JPI engine monitor and the CHT never went up. I’m confused and concerned. Did another high power run for 45 minutes, and again no CHT rise. As a matter of fact I believe it was the coolest CHT of the 6.
Flew it 13 hours to Colorado and back. No oil consumption to speak of. Flew it 5 hours to Sun n Fun and back. No oil consumption to speak of.
So my experience was that the break in probably was finished after the first take off.
YRMV
Flew it 13 hours to Colorado and back. No oil consumption to speak of. Flew it 5 hours to Sun n Fun and back. No oil consumption to speak of.
So my experience was that the break in probably was finished after the first take off.
YRMV
Tom-D
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Thank you for your input.
This is very typical of these new cylinders.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Tom, when everyone says one thing, and you say something else, I won’t take your word for it.
As for the three types of cylinders, I’ll break them in accordance to the instructions I’m given. Not how I “think” they should be broken in.
Do you tell your customers anything different from that the instructions say for the engines or cylinders you install?
Nickel runs cooler and seals up better than any of the others.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
just did a brand new Nickel top OH on a TSIO-520D....mine cooled off 20-30 deg after 25 minutes of orbiting the airport at 80% HP. I sat there watching the engine monitor while my buddy flew the plane....now that I have +25 hrs....it uses about a quart every 10 hrs.
Attachments
If you follow the official guidance from the cylinder manufacturer, and things go bad, then at least you have some recourse. Follow what some guy on the net said, good luck - maybe it will work, maybe not, but the owner will own the results. The other thread about a pooched break in bears that out.
If you do everything just right, a new cylinder might break in right away, like a poster above mentioned. Or it might take a few hours until the oil consumption and cht drops. There are a lot of variables. Do your homework and take internet advice with a grain of salt.
If you do everything just right, a new cylinder might break in right away, like a poster above mentioned. Or it might take a few hours until the oil consumption and cht drops. There are a lot of variables. Do your homework and take internet advice with a grain of salt.
When it comes to break in recommendations, tradition often runs deep, even amongst engineers who should know better.
I work for an engine OEM. We spend millions of dollars researching cylinder finishes, pistons, and rings in a quest to find what works best and minimizes oil consumption. Many of the engineers will tell you directly that the modern materials and finishes don’t require break in.
Yet we still do a similar run in to what Lycoming specifies. Why do we do it if it doesn’t need it? Because it makes some of the engineers feel better, and it provides an opportunity to record a little data prior to starting a test.
I’m undecided what to think about break in requirements for aircraft cylinders. Based on my personal observations from breaking in quite a few engines, I believe the manufacturer recommendations for break in are pretty conservative. I would not deviate from the manufacturer recommendation, nor tell someone to though, even if I don’t think it is necessary. When things are done in the factory prescribed method that is one less thing the manufacturer can say caused a problem, should one arise.
I work for an engine OEM. We spend millions of dollars researching cylinder finishes, pistons, and rings in a quest to find what works best and minimizes oil consumption. Many of the engineers will tell you directly that the modern materials and finishes don’t require break in.
Yet we still do a similar run in to what Lycoming specifies. Why do we do it if it doesn’t need it? Because it makes some of the engineers feel better, and it provides an opportunity to record a little data prior to starting a test.
I’m undecided what to think about break in requirements for aircraft cylinders. Based on my personal observations from breaking in quite a few engines, I believe the manufacturer recommendations for break in are pretty conservative. I would not deviate from the manufacturer recommendation, nor tell someone to though, even if I don’t think it is necessary. When things are done in the factory prescribed method that is one less thing the manufacturer can say caused a problem, should one arise.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
And this seems like reasonable information
Tarheelpilot
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LolAs compared to what we have been getting from this thread?
There is nothing even remotely legitimate about this bunch of scoundrels.
That guy passes himself of as legitimate.
Ghery
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Ghery Pettit
In skimming these responses I come to the conclusion that if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations you won't hurt anything. You may be taking more time than is necessary to break in your new cylinders, but you won't hurt anything. They may very well break in immediately, but running at high power for a number of hours won't hurt the cylinders. Whatever, I don't worry about it, I belong to a club and maintenance isn't my responsibility. And we haven't lost a cylinder in the 18+ years I've been a member. YMMV.