Possible to get IR w/o ever flying with a CFI?

MAKG1 said:
Those RedBirds ARE MSFS.

The full motion ones may **** off your instructor. Don't be surprised if he refuses to get in with you. The motion is not right, and makes people sick.
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The Redbird motion didn't **** me off, but I found it more of a gimmick than anything. Doesn't really add value especially considering the cost.
 
dmspilot said:
The Redbird motion didn't **** me off, but I found it more of a gimmick than anything. Doesn't really add value especially considering the cost.
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Also I found it annoying to instruct in it, especially when it was the flight school management pressuring us to use it more because it wasn't paying for itself. It just seemed like more work for some reason.

Additionally the UI for setting up the sim is god-awful and barely makes any sense. I had a student ask me if I took a Redbird training course. Don't I wish. I was there when the simulator was delivered from the factory, and they didn't teach us diddly squat.
 
I don't think the OP is crazy at all. To be honest, most of what I learned from my CFII was from talking to him, not flying with him. 90% of my ability to fly by instruments was developed flying under the hood with a safety pilot (who was instrument rated and had some experience in IMC), and from reviewing the videos of those flights (as well as the flights with my CFII).

I actually think that doing the minimum CFII in plane time to meet legal requirements, and the rest in the sim and with a safety pilot isn't a bad idea. What works for one, doesn't work for another. But there are some definite advantages to the sim, as others have stated.
 
MAKG1 said:
Those RedBirds ARE MSFS.

The full motion ones may **** off your instructor. Don't be surprised if he refuses to get in with you. The motion is not right, and makes people sick.
Click to expand...
Actually, they use MSFS for the flight dynamics. And yes, the full motion one is little more than a carnival ride.

The real problem however, is when I was using the FM redbird is that the thing doesn't simulate avionics with any level of fidelity to the real thing. What you learn in that is WRONG for the real G1000, etc....

There are some sim people who do real nice jobs on the G1000 (I flew the Elite and it seemed pretty good). I've not tried the touchtrainer yet, but hear good things about it.
 
As someone who spent a good portion of my career designing simulators, a simulator is a good teaching tool if used properly and the instructor does not have to spend all his time manipulating the software. Otherwise, it is just an expensive video game.

I have used the full motion as well as the simpler systems. I really did not experience much additional "learning" being bounced around other than to appreciate turbulence's effect on trying to program/load/update flight plans and approaches. I am a big fan of using the simulators to teach how to follow procedures, etc. It is a good aid to let the student get behind in briefing approaches, etc, and understand exactly how bad of an idea that is.

The ability to restart mid-flight is effective in teaching by repetition.
 
JCranford said:
Don't work, azblackbird will be along shortly to ask THAT question. He seems to want to shortcut everything anyway.

"Can I do all my solo XC at the same time, with foggles, in a multiengine glider, while not being commercial rated and carrying questionable cargo, without FAA approval, and get my PPL in 39.9999 hrs?"

Sorry for the hijack! I volunteer to be one of your knuckleheads!
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Correction. It's just rounding error, right?
 
The instrument rating needs 40 hours, 15 with an instructor, most ATD will give you at least 10 hours, some up to 20. But like one poster, you at least have to do the cross-country. That's the good news, the bad news is that you really need to spend time flying IFR in an airplane for a rating that you actually intend to use. If you just want it on your PPL and not actually use it, you can do whatever, but I would be very wary about launching in actual if that was the case.
 
Ive known airline pilots that did the sim for the approach several times so they knew the approach like the back of their hand for the real thing. Practicing a specific approach familiarizes the pilot with the approach plate, what frequencies to tune, what is unique or difficult about the approach. Just everything so he is familiar with it when he goes out and does it for real. And it doesn't have to be a full motion sim to be beneficial. Also, you can do "known difficult" approaches like Aspen and Juneau.
 
I'd start with a CFII, and not with a sim, @SixPapaCharlie ... if they want to use a sim to augment or hammer home certain behaviors, they'll tell you. But let them build the curriculum for you. A sim may be part of it, but start with finding the instructor and let them decide how they want to teach it.

Too much at stake with passengers on board, IMC to mess with shortcuts on the IFR ticket, if you ask me.

I also highly recommend seeking out some actual IMC with the instructor during the process.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
So I can do the sim with an instructor there and fly the remaining hours with local knuckleheads as safety pilots and never actually get in a plane w/ a CFI? :)
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Sim time does not count unless you do it with a CFII.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Ive known airline pilots that did the sim for the approach several times so they knew the approach like the back of their hand for the real thing. Practicing a specific approach familiarizes the pilot with the approach plate, what frequencies to tune, what is unique or difficult about the approach. Just everything so he is familiar with it when he goes out and does it for real. And it doesn't have to be a full motion sim to be beneficial. Also, you can do "known difficult" approaches like Aspen and Juneau.
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Hoo boy, that could SUCK HARD if the approach changes.

Not terribly frequent, but it does happen.

NOTAMs modifying the parameters (especially minima) also happen IRL.

And the way ATC uses the approach isn't always the same as the plate says. For instance, flying KPAO GPS 31, you will almost never get cleared to the IAF, even if you ask for it. It's right in the way of KSJC arrivals, and ATC will almost always clear you direct to the IF (DOCAL).

Now, an airline pilot is never going to fly that approach, but 135 pilots do several times a day.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I'm not talking about Microsoft flight simulator. I'm talking about going and renting time at a red bird simulator with an instructor. I thought that was the only way it was legal
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There are other FAA approved FTDs, such as the Frasca, ATG (or is it ATP - not the flight school), etc. Check around, if the local college has an aviation dept, look into that, too.
 
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