Possible Instructor Change

Salty said:
Any instructor that doesn’t encourage you go to another at least on occasion, especially if you are struggling, is an instructor you probably don’t want. JMO
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Agreed. In fact, one of my instructors took the initiative himself to ask another instructor to go up with me when I was struggling a bit.

Or maybe he was just scared to keep flying with me.....
 
Salty said:
Any instructor that doesn’t encourage you go to another at least on occasion, especially if you are struggling, is an instructor you probably don’t want. JMO
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Once my instructor understood why I called the other guy, he was very encouraging. He said that if I had discussed this with him, the guy I called is the guy he would have recommended.
 
good
 
I have an interesting challenge myself. I flew with one of the guys I lined up today and I really liked him. But I can tell he's very green. I know a lot more than him about some parts of flying. Obviously, he knows more than me about IFR, but I don't know what I don't know, so I can't gauge how much.

This is why I have others lined up. ;)
 
A few thoughts. BTW - you're way ahead of me, I haven't even started IFR training, just putzing on studying for the written.

1) Remember that YOU are the CUSTOMER
You're paying lots of $. You can do whatever you want - it isn't your job to make him happy. You did well in telling your current instructor why you were hooking up with another CFI. I suggest trying yet another one - get different opinions / POV. I'd even ask your current CFI for suggestions for another CFI. And as it sounds like it's in your best interest to keep on the right side of the bed with your current CFI, I'd tell him - truthfully - to get the most out of training I'd like to mix things up. But remember YOU are in charge. Don't worry about hurting his feelings.

2) "You are paying someone to train you, not blow smoke up your ass"
I've had a few CFI's. One I left because I moved. Another left because he went to the airlines. Finished up with a 3rd one. They were all different. I just got checked out when I joined an club with CFI number 4 - I would call him an "old school" guy who thumped the instruments, etc. If you brought him a cure for cancer he's grumble that it had to be given via IV and not a pill - not good enough. And truth is I learned / got better with this guy faster than the others - although it was more painful. When I'm in the pattern I get flashes of what he instructed and low and behold I'm flying better. What he taught just stuck a lot more vs the others. I'll probably go back to him to get my high performance / complex endorsement - not because it will be fun, but I'll be better for it. I doubt I can do a long duration instrument with him though.

3) Option - hard core intensive 2 week IFR training to finish up
I've asked a question on the board here about motivation, getting IFR started and finishing, etc. One of the wise people here mentioned how he - after a while of traditional training - hit it hard core, went to a 2 week IFR training session for his vacation and just got it done. Maybe your speed on learning is too slow - you did mention you've been at it a few years.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Yeah, I have...a couple of times. I just think it may be that his teaching style and my learning style don't mesh. Or it could be that I'm just not cut-out to be an IFR pilot, but before I reach that unpleasant conclusion, I want to be sure I've looked at other options.
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trust that voice telling you something is off...

In primary training I was at 20 hrs and not close to solo- I wondered if I was cut out to be a pilot. Took a random hour with a different guy and briefed him on my weaknesses... had told him I’m terrible in a crosswind. We took off and he said “I thought u said you were bad at crosswind that was great”. That was the first uplifting thing I’d heard in the cockpit. 3-4hrs later I soloed!

was the first guy a bad instructor? No! I still BS w him when I see him, was I a bed student? No! Our teaching and learning styles didn’t mesh- no more no less.

give someone else a try for a few hours- whats the worst that can happen :)
 
WDD said:
A few thoughts. BTW - you're way ahead of me, I haven't even started IFR training, just putzing on studying for the written.

1) Remember that YOU are the CUSTOMER
You're paying lots of $. You can do whatever you want - it isn't your job to make him happy. You did well in telling your current instructor why you were hooking up with another CFI. I suggest trying yet another one - get different opinions / POV. I'd even ask your current CFI for suggestions for another CFI. And as it sounds like it's in your best interest to keep on the right side of the bed with your current CFI, I'd tell him - truthfully - to get the most out of training I'd like to mix things up. But remember YOU are in charge. Don't worry about hurting his feelings.

2) "You are paying someone to train you, not blow smoke up your ass"
I've had a few CFI's. One I left because I moved. Another left because he went to the airlines. Finished up with a 3rd one. They were all different. I just got checked out when I joined an club with CFI number 4 - I would call him an "old school" guy who thumped the instruments, etc. If you brought him a cure for cancer he's grumble that it had to be given via IV and not a pill - not good enough. And truth is I learned / got better with this guy faster than the others - although it was more painful. When I'm in the pattern I get flashes of what he instructed and low and behold I'm flying better. What he taught just stuck a lot more vs the others. I'll probably go back to him to get my high performance / complex endorsement - not because it will be fun, but I'll be better for it. I doubt I can do a long duration instrument with him though.

3) Option - hard core intensive 2 week IFR training to finish up
I've asked a question on the board here about motivation, getting IFR started and finishing, etc. One of the wise people here mentioned how he - after a while of traditional training - hit it hard core, went to a 2 week IFR training session for his vacation and just got it done. Maybe your speed on learning is too slow - you did mention you've been at it a few years.
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Replies, in order of your comments.

1. I'm ultimately not worried about hurting his feelings. He's a tough guy, and I'm sure students have bailed on him before. Sh*t happens. My concern is that I may end up staying with him, and I don't want to poison what is a good relationship on a personal level. The question I'm trying to answer is whether my learning style is compatible with his teaching style.

2. I do not want someone to blow smoke up my ass. However, using the previously mentioned carrot/stick method of teaching, I'm tiring of too much stick and not much carrot. The example I gave of the good glide-path coupled with a lousy landing defines it well - Instead of giving me an atta-boy for doing a good job on the glide path (which has been troublesome), what I got was a litany of reasons why my landing was lousy. In the span if seconds I went from feeling pretty good to being completely deflated.

3. Being self-employed, two weeks off from work isn't in the cards. At most, with some planning, I could do a Saturday to the following Sunday (nine days), and be able to do some of my work in the evenings.
 
Huckster79 said:
was the first guy a bad instructor? No! I still BS w him when I see him, was I a bed student? No! Our teaching and learning styles didn’t mesh- no more no less.

give someone else a try for a few hours- whats the worst that can happen :)
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That's where my head's at...I've got an appointment with the new guy in a couple of weeks, and after that I'll re-evaluate.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Friends - I've been working with a CFII for awhile now, and am starting to think the "chemistry" (for lack of a better word) isn't right. On a personal level, I really like my current instructor, but I'm concerned that the student-teacher relationship is not working as well as it should. I'm not quite ready to make a change, but want to explore other options before I make any decisions.

My sense is that the CFII community at my home airport is relatively small. I'd appreciate suggestions on how to approach other instructors to ask about doing a "get to know you" kind of flight and ask that they not discuss my interactions with them with my current instructor.

Thoughts, comments and suggestions appreciated.

Thank you!
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I've changed instructors before. Some guys will just milk you without never signing you off. I don't think it is common. In my case I was 12 hours into a BFR !
I went to the local flight school and flew with the owner and was signed off an hour later on a P28 Archer.
 
Datadriver said:
I've changed instructors before. Some guys will just milk you without never signing you off. I don't think it is common. In my case I was 12 hours into a BFR !
I went to the local flight school and flew with the owner and was signed off an hour later on a P28 Archer.
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Good lord. People like that (unless you really couldn’t fly!) give us all a bad name.
 
Datadriver said:
I've changed instructors before. Some guys will just milk you without never signing you off. I don't think it is common. In my case I was 12 hours into a BFR !
I went to the local flight school and flew with the owner and was signed off an hour later on a P28 Archer.
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WTF!? Why would you let that go on so long? Were you really rusty or something?
 
Salty said:
WTF!? Why would you let that go on so long? Were you really rusty or something?
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He was the instructor that my boss at work used. I did not want retribution, finally said oh well. No retribution occurred :)
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Off and on (lots of "off") for a couple of years.
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This is why I went with an accelerated program. 7-10 days with an instructor that is really good at helping you get the information you need and no time to forget what you learned in the last lesson. I know me and I’d have never gotten my IFR using a tradition course with two or three lessons a week.

Based on what most of the pilots I know that went the traditional way, the accelerated program saved me a lot of money along with saving a lot of time and I’ve been confident in my IFR skills since getting the rating (I do fly IFR frequently to stay sharp).

By the way, I did change instructors during my private training. My first guy was nice, and seemed to know what he was doing, but he just didn’t click with me. I talked to him about it and we both agreed that I should try one of the other instructors. The second guy clicked with me and both he and my first instructor were happy when I passed my check-ride. There were no hard feelings from the first guy.

Gary
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
That's a fair point, and the answer is, "no." I'll give you an example. I've been having trouble staying on the glide path. Too high. Too low. So the other day I absolutely nailed it. Came down the glide path pretty much like I was on a rail. However, the landing was a bit sketchy. Clunk! Nothing horrible...no pieces of the plane left on the runway, but not one of my better landings. So, what was the topic of discussion? Not something like, "hey, nice job on the glide path. You seem to be figuring out power settings..." Instead it was, "do you know why the landing was bad? You didn't do this, and you did that too late, and you should have waited to..." And I remember taxiing back to the hangar thinking, "what the "eff" do I need to do to hear something positive?"
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A CFII really ought not to be judging your ppl skills. That’s not their job. Personally I’m in limbo on my own IR path but before the shutdown I had a regular CFII and flew with another once. Neither cared about my landings or other ppl skills. After exceptionally bad landings neither were critical. I’m my own worse critic and don’t need a double-I adding to it.
 
Couple of points, regardless if you change instructors or not. There is a lot of self-motivation needed when getting a pilot license or new rating. Eventually you’ll be flying alone again and no one will be admiring your precision or commenting on how much better you flew that ILS than the last one. You can start doing that for yourself now, and not expect it from others. Of course this is outside the reality that you are trying to learn with an instructor sitting inches next to you, but it’s something to consider if you want to use an extra thought process during your training.

If I’m flying as CFII with a licensed pilot and after a successful approach they botch the landing, it will get my attention. If they say something that essentially means, “well I can do better than that, I was little fast before touchdown and I won’t do that next time” I’ll probably not say a word. If they show frustration about their landing, I may feel compelled to critique it. If it was a really bad landing and it demonstrated weakness in an area where it shouldn’t, I may question (in my mind) their proficiency or skill level which would lead to a conversation.

And finally, if i had an instructor as you describe, I’d start asking them for positive feedback and see what I get, “I thought i did much better staying on GS that time, don’t you agree?” Maybe some simple affirmation from them (that they should initiate on their own) would go along way.

Can’t blame you for wanting to get positive feedback, it can help build confidence and maintain motivation in a learning situation. Unfortunately, not everyone dishes that out and you have to adjust.
 
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