Planning climbs from under a low bravo

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Seth.A

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Seth.A
I'm curious to get some opinions on this, both from a practical perspective and from a "what the dpe wants to see" perspective.

At the airport I fly out of, when departing to the west there are a bunch of little steps in altitude that need to happen. If I want to cruise at 4500 I'm looking at as many as 5 distinct climbs before I get there, all within about 10 miles. This is due to terrain, airspace, and noise abatement.

For the purposes of setting up a flight plan and nav log, how detailed should I be? Should I be listing out every step or can I aggregate departure into a single climb?

FWIW I've talked to my CFI about it, and I'll obviously his direction on the matter while I'm training, but I would love to see what other folks think.
 
Seth.A said:
I'm curious to get some opinions on this, both from a practical perspective and from a "what the dpe wants to see" perspective.

At the airport I fly out of, when departing to the west there are a bunch of little steps in altitude that need to happen. If I want to cruise at 4500 I'm looking at as many as 5 distinct climbs before I get there, all within about 10 miles. This is due to terrain, airspace, and noise abatement.

For the purposes of setting up a flight plan and nav log, how detailed should I be? Should I be listing out every step or can I aggregate departure into a single climb?

FWIW I've talked to my CFI about it, and I'll obviously his direction on the matter while I'm training, but I would love to see what other folks think.
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I wouldn’t factor that into a Nav Log. Chopping a 10 mile stretch into 5 pieces isn’t going to affect things significantly. Ya may wanna use a speed somewhere between climb and cruise on that stretch if you want to fine tune your ETA’s
 
Personally, for something like that, if it were my first time, I would detail it out. If I were used to flying it all the time, then I might not. For a check ride, I would probably plan it out because I would be nervous and likely distracted.
 
I’d be picking visual waypoints for each ascent.
 
I would pick a slightly conservative equivalent for that leg. If you have a headwind that increases as you climb, calculate it as though you climb right away up to your cruising altitude. If you have a tailwind that increases as you climb, calculate it as though you started climbing as late as possible in order to reach cruising altitude at the same point. Whatever you choose to do should be a relative simple calculation that gets you to your ultimate top of climb without underestimating the time and fuel burn. You will most likely need to make an adjustment based on when you reach your predicted top of climb location for when you will arrive at your next waypoint, but things should stabilize after that.
 
I also did my ppl checkride from a Bravo. On my flight plan I always just plan one continuous climb to TOC without worrying about the steps (even for the ppl oral). It never came up in the oral (lots of bigger fish to fry), and in practical terms the times and fuel burn is nearly identical using one continuous climb as opposed to several step ups. And the same holds for TOD. Keep it simple with stuff like that is my philosophy.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I've flow this departure enough that I know all the visual checkpoints and where I need to be when quite well, so its really a matter of planning for time and fuel I guess. On one hand I want to be as accurate as I need to be, but on the other I think if I'm cutting it so close that any discrepancy here causes an issue I'm probably doing it wrong. I'm naturally incline to err on the side of caution, but I'm also inclined to learn from by betters and try to be pragmatic about how I go about things. I really appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
 
Seth.A said:
Thanks for the advice.

I've flow this departure enough that I know all the visual checkpoints and where I need to be when quite well, so its really a matter of planning for time and fuel I guess. On one hand I want to be as accurate as I need to be, but on the other I think if I'm cutting it so close that any discrepancy here causes an issue I'm probably doing it wrong. I'm naturally incline to err on the side of caution, but I'm also inclined to learn from by betters and try to be pragmatic about how I go about things. I really appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
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I think the goal is to show competence to the dpe. If you can do it from memory, go for it, but don't bust that bravo. In unfamiliar airspace I will actually write the altitudes I need to be at on the magenta line in FF so I'll remember as I fly the route. Consider too the dpe might try to distract you during this phase, don't be afraid to tell him you need to concentrate if it becomes a concern.

Another play to consider is to ask for a bravo clearance on flight following in the climb. I get those most of the time I ask under the Boston Bravo.
 
PaulS said:
Another play to consider is to ask for a bravo clearance on flight following in the climb. I get those most of the time I ask under the Boston Bravo.
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Isn't this a bad idea during a private pilot checkride? If you aren't endorsed, and you aren't doing a training flight, and you aren't a private pilot, I don't think you should be entering bravo. It might be technically okay with a DPE there (not sure), but seems like inviting trouble for no real benefit.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
Isn't this a bad idea during a private pilot checkride? If you aren't endorsed, and you aren't doing a training flight, and you aren't a private pilot, I don't think you should be entering bravo. It might be technically okay with a DPE there (not sure), but seems like inviting trouble for no real benefit.
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Good point, I learned under a bravo and was endorsed pretty early after I started soloing, so I just assumed instructors did it that way, but I could be wrong or he could be under a bravo that prohibits students.
 
I think I would just plan the climb at a lower vertical rate to stay under the shelfs. It is better for the airplane anyway. You will likely get "vectored" off by your DPE anyway before you get too far.
 
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